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      01-11-2014, 07:20 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suave View Post
Well here is the bad news. Just got my Car and Driver today and there is a close up of wheels. I'm pretty sure this is it
better not be.

the recently posted pics of the AY one show them as all black

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      01-11-2014, 07:45 PM   #46
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That car looks like a boat.
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      01-11-2014, 07:50 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbonphiber
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suave View Post
Well here is the bad news. Just got my Car and Driver today and there is a close up of wheels. I'm pretty sure this is it
better not be.

the recently posted pics of the AY one show them as all black

Yep so much confusion indeed. Maybe both styles will be offered with a solid black and two tone
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      01-11-2014, 08:06 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by camber View Post
PSS are very decent tires in cold weather. Surprisingly, their grip in cold weather is very good. Even when it's wet, as long as there is no snow.

I drive on my PSS all winter long. Granted, I never drive on snowy or icy days. That would be suicide.

PSS is the best summer performance tire for winter. And I tried many. I strongly advise against using summer tires during winter. But if you have to get by this way, PSS is the one to choose.
Oh please, you try braking hard at 80 mph or try an evasive maneuver at 60 and when it's below 32F and wet and tell me how PSS works out for you - wait you most likely won't be here to talk when that happens

PSS does have a better grip in cold weather but below 50F the tire turns into concrete. I have been using them for a long time. There is a reason why they are called summer tires. Detroit is one of the coldest areas of the united states and the past week being probably the coldest in 30 years with lots of ice, I thought BMW would know better, but I guess not.
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      01-11-2014, 09:35 PM   #49
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At first glance, I don't like it. I really want to like it so I'm going to keep staring at the pictures until I do.
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      01-11-2014, 09:42 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Purple88Gold View Post
At first glance, I don't like it. I really want to like it so I'm going to keep staring at the pictures until I do.
You might be there for a while.
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      01-11-2014, 11:01 PM   #51
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You people are all talking like they're cruising around the streets of Detroit with this M4 and how dangerous it is to do this on (gasp!) SUMMER TIRES!

The NAIAS, where the M3/M4 will be unveiled, is at Cobo Center, this car is shown on John C Conyers Blvd., AKA Washington Blvd., also the same street that Cobo Center is on. This is also right smack dab in the middle of downtown Detroit, where the speed limit is maybe 25-30 MPH with VERY little chance of having to do 80 MPH braking or a 60 MPH "evasive maneuver". Yeah, I used to live in the Detroit area, and that corner looked very familiar. Look it up on Google Maps.

They're probably just moving the car from one location around Cobo Center, possibly from an offsite car hauler, to the entrance of the display area, maybe a distance of a couple blocks at most. The roadway appears to be clear of snow. BFD. Do you really think that they're going to cruise around downtown Detroit with the car that they're going to unveil to the world, for the first time ever, next week?
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      01-12-2014, 08:06 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
You people are all talking like they're cruising around the streets of Detroit with this M4 and how dangerous it is to do this on (gasp!) SUMMER TIRES!

The NAIAS, where the M3/M4 will be unveiled, is at Cobo Center, this car is shown on John C Conyers Blvd., AKA Washington Blvd., also the same street that Cobo Center is on. This is also right smack dab in the middle of downtown Detroit, where the speed limit is maybe 25-30 MPH with VERY little chance of having to do 80 MPH braking or a 60 MPH "evasive maneuver". Yeah, I used to live in the Detroit area, and that corner looked very familiar. Look it up on Google Maps.

They're probably just moving the car from one location around Cobo Center, possibly from an offsite car hauler, to the entrance of the display area, maybe a distance of a couple blocks at most. The roadway appears to be clear of snow. BFD. Do you really think that they're going to cruise around downtown Detroit with the car that they're going to unveil to the world, for the first time ever, next week?
Yes they were fresh from the plane from Munich , as all shows cars , media cars and launch cars for photography etc are prepped in Munich in a dedicated facility after being delivered from their factory base. This will just have been offloaded from the truck. Since the cars have to drive on the stage they have to check everything is in working order.

Of course I had to double check in case somebody "borrowed" the M4 as it is not the first time a BMW has been borrowed.
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      01-12-2014, 08:08 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by GregD View Post
Scott, any chance the M3 will also be shown at the Brussels Auto show next week? I know the M4 will be present but I don't have any info on the M3.
Yes both M3 and M4 will be on show at Brussels.
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      01-12-2014, 08:46 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Yes both M3 and M4 will be on show at Brussels.
Scott - again - thank you for your patience and willingness to answer so many questions (some reasonable, some not-so-reasonable). Any word if the M3/M4 will be at the Chicago auto show in February?
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      01-12-2014, 08:57 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by The Fatal Gamer View Post
Oh please, you try braking hard at 80 mph or try an evasive maneuver at 60 and when it's below 32F and wet and tell me how PSS works out for you - wait you most likely won't be here to talk when that happens

PSS does have a better grip in cold weather but below 50F the tire turns into concrete. I have been using them for a long time. There is a reason why they are called summer tires. Detroit is one of the coldest areas of the united states and the past week being probably the coldest in 30 years with lots of ice, I thought BMW would know better, but I guess not.
I agree 100% with those who say PSS are pretty good below freezing under the following conditions: 1) no ice, rain, water, snow, etc. on the road in question - in other words, completely dry; and 2) driving the car like any other "ordinary" car with no aggressive acceleration. I drove mine for three winters under these conditions, and even around 0 degrees farenheit under these conditions the car was completely controllable in terms of acceleration, braking and turning. My car braked just as quickly as all of the other cars on the road with all-season tires, my car never fishtailed or broke traction (unless I was deliberately pushing it in a dry parking lot), no tire squeal or loss of traction whatsoever when going around curves (again, unless deliberately pushing the limits under controlled condidtions, and even then, the trademark M gradual departure from its limits, where simply easing off on the throttle and/or relaxing the turn radius immediately allowed traction to be regained).

Of course nobody would "recommend" PS2's or PSS's in below freezing conditions, even if dry. Under the hypothetical above, you would be incredible foolish to be driving at 80 in wet conditions and slamming on the brakes even on winter tires, and downright suicidal if on PSS's or PS2's. Like everyone else said above though, I never drove mine when there was even a trace of snow, ice or water on the road (it was my third car, so I didn't have to).

On the other hand, driving the M4 on PSS's under the conditions in Detroit shown in the above photos (low speeds, dry roads) is completely controllable, especially at such slow speeds. The only people you'll see here saying it was "stupid" or "irresponsible" for BMW to be driving the car under the conditions depicted above are people who have never driven the car on those types of tires under those particular conditions.
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      01-12-2014, 09:09 AM   #56
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Actually - I looked at the photos again and do see some moisture on the road. While that does reduce the safety margin under such conditions, driving city streets (as long as water with salt in it, rather than snow/ice accumulation) at speeds below 35 mph with light throttle, no aggressive turns and no slamming on the brakes is still completely fine.
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      01-12-2014, 09:10 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
I agree 100% with those who say PSS are pretty good below freezing under the following conditions: 1) no ice, rain, water, snow, etc. on the road in question - in other words, completely dry; and 2) driving the car like any other "ordinary" car with no aggressive acceleration. I drove mine for three winters under these conditions, and even around 0 degrees farenheit under these conditions the car was completely controllable in terms of acceleration, braking and turning. My car braked just as quickly as all of the other cars on the road with all-season tires, my car never fishtailed or broke traction (unless I was deliberately pushing it in a dry parking lot), no tire squeal or loss of traction whatsoever when going around curves (again, unless deliberately pushing the limits under controlled condidtions, and even then, the trademark M gradual departure from its limits, where simply easing off on the throttle and/or relaxing the turn radius immediately allowed traction to be regained).

Of course nobody would "recommend" PS2's or PSS's in below freezing conditions, even if dry. Under the hypothetical above, you would be incredible foolish to be driving at 80 in wet conditions and slamming on the brakes even on winter tires, and downright suicidal if on PSS's or PS2's. Like everyone else said above though, I never drove mine when there was even a trace of snow, ice or water on the road (it was my third car, so I didn't have to).

On the other hand, driving the M4 on PSS's under the conditions in Detroit shown in the above photos (low speeds, dry roads) is completely controllable, especially at such slow speeds. The only people you'll see here saying it was "stupid" or "irresponsible" for BMW to be driving the car under the conditions depicted above are people who have never driven the car on those types of tires under those particular conditions.
That's all fine, I was merely pointing out the fact that for the past 10 days until about a day or two ago, U.S. (especially the north U.S.) have been under an amazing cold weather (arctic cold/polar vortex shift). This wasn't your regular winter cold, I have seen temperatures that I have never seen or felt before (-32C).

Obviously BMW knows what they are doing. And if it's 200 yards they are driving the car, who cares about PSS

That being said, interestingly enough, a lot of the "spy shots" in Europe and even in NJ in winter conditions all had the same PSS tires mounted on 19" wheels. I highly doubt people driving this prototype around checks the weather report before traveling "hmm, humidity is above 50%, so the roads may be a bit slippery, so let me not drive the M4 today"
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      01-12-2014, 09:15 AM   #58
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I do agree 100% with your comments in this regard - when I was driving on PS2's in winter I made abolutely sure there were blue skies, or if cloudy, no rain/snow in forecast and even then stay within 5 miles of home and head straight back home if even the slightest sign of a snowflake (I actually did get caught 3-5 miles away from home when it started to snow unexpectedly - just drove extremely cautiously - in other words, drove car like a grandma - and luckily made it home).

So yes - driving in snow/ice on those tires would be extremely dangerous - would never even attempt it!
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      01-12-2014, 09:26 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Yes both M3 and M4 will be on show at Brussels.
Will they be in Houston later this month?
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      01-12-2014, 09:47 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple88Gold
At first glance, I don't like it. I really want to like it so I'm going to keep staring at the pictures until I do.
This.

My first thought was the E92 M looks so much better from the rear and side. And don't call me a fan boy as I don't even have an M! 335 here....

I want to like it, I really really do because I plan on purchasing one year 2. The rear looks bloated, no hard curves that make it pop. Those wheels look to small. It looks far to similar to a 4-series. Now a days when I drive and I see an M3 on I road I can easily distinguish it from a regular 3, I like that. With this design I'm not so sure. Dare I say A5? Please look better tomorrow BMW.....
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      01-12-2014, 10:14 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple88Gold View Post
At first glance, I don't like it. I really want to like it so I'm going to keep staring at the pictures until I do.
Instead of doing that, I would just put it out of your head until you can see it in person.

Pictures - especially chance photos like this - often accentuate the bad and conceal the good. It's just like studio shots of a celebrity vs. candid photos walking the dog taken by the paparazzi. Now, its true that if something is just downright beautiful its hard to make it look bad regardless of the situation. But I am sure that if you look around you can find unflattering E92 M3 pictures too, and probably other generations as well.

I suspect that most people who aren't deliberately trying to cling to some reason to dislike this car's aesthetics are eventually going to end up with more desire than distaste for it. And, I further suspect that seeing them out and about in person, in real life, is going to fuel that phenomena.
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      01-12-2014, 11:37 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post

I suspect that most people who aren't deliberately trying to cling to some reason to dislike this car's aesthetics are eventually going to end up with more desire than distaste for it. And, I further suspect that seeing them out and about in person, in real life, is going to fuel that phenomena.
Well said
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      01-12-2014, 11:46 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Instead of doing that, I would just put it out of your head until you can see it in person.

Pictures - especially chance photos like this - often accentuate the bad and conceal the good. It's just like studio shots of a celebrity vs. candid photos walking the dog taken by the paparazzi. Now, its true that if something is just downright beautiful its hard to make it look bad regardless of the situation. But I am sure that if you look around you can find unflattering E92 M3 pictures too, and probably other generations as well.

I suspect that most people who aren't deliberately trying to cling to some reason to dislike this car's aesthetics are eventually going to end up with more desire than distaste for it. And, I further suspect that seeing them out and about in person, in real life, is going to fuel that phenomena.
I completely agree. The part you are missing out is though I don't think we had to stare at E9X too long to like it or better yet we had to see one in person.
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      01-12-2014, 11:49 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by The Fatal Gamer View Post
I completely agree. The part you are missing out is though I don't think we had to stare at E9X too long to like it or better yet we had to see one in person.
Over the E46? Maybe I was one of the few that was not overly impressed with the E9X until I saw it in person.
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      01-12-2014, 12:28 PM   #65
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Over the E46? Maybe I was one of the few that was not overly impressed with the E9X until I saw it in person.
You were minority then. I don't remember seeing so many negative responses for E90 or E92 (similar to M4 maybe not so much the new M3).
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      01-12-2014, 12:31 PM   #66
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Over the E46? Maybe I was one of the few that was not overly impressed with the E9X until I saw it in person.
Coming from an e46 it took me awhile to warm up to the e92's appearance.
Any apprehension I had towards the e92 melted after getting up close and personal with the car.
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