M4 vs 911 Track Battle at Anglesey (EVO)

[mad_max]

Have 911 now, can't wait to add the new F80 M3 to the garage in a few months. Can't go wrong with either and having both is a win-win!

[Papa13]

Comparisons like this are great because of course we want to see the M keep up with the Porsche. But it's simply impossible on the track in stock form.. I knew the outcome before I clicked play. I'm also sure 99% of you all knew how it would end as well.

Now, what always gets me with test like this is the price factor, what they should do it put some of money into making the M more track worthy. I know then we are talking about stock vs modded, and some of you will argue, "well then the Porsche should be modded to dick head." But, I believe that a few minor tweaks would have made this comparison AMAZING. Wider/R compound rubber all around, a stiffer suspension with some added camber, and possibly thicker sways.

The M would still come out 10k cheaper then the 911.

This those corrections are not added it wouldn't be 90:100 Porsche.. I'm sorry, hit it would be 100:100.. Inless some kind of freak accident befell the 911.

For me it's M3 all day, but I also know without a doubt that a stock 911 will spank me on the track .

[Raja Ventureshield]

i know my comments maybe few years too dated but i think still holds up IMHO.

I have owned both e92 m3 as well as 911c2s. yes, the 911c2s will cost you more money in the end. They are different cars and serve different purpose. The m3 is a great all rounder while the 911 is a great little sports car with some compomises for DD. One thing I did notice is every m3 owners or potential owners thing 911 is their direct competitio whereas the 911 owners don't think or look back at a m3.

i like both the 991 and m4. Plan is to work hard so i can have both vs. just chosing one. :-)

[onatuesday]

They need to stack a Cayman GTS up against the M4

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by trinim3

They need to stack a Cayman GTS up against the M4

I think auto express is gojng to do this per their rs5 vs m4 comparo

I also would love to see this, though I'm way more interested in the m3 for it's all around usability

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by rngrjag

This is simply not true. A base 991 Carrera does not come with an LSD standard. Only an "S" does. You have to order the PTV or APTV for the base car.
It is impossible to tell from the video whether this car had an LSD or not.

I was sorely mistaken. My bad, that's really surprising.

[TeutonicFlight]

Originally Posted by Slow///1

This video really does make you wonder why the M division didn't put some 295 rubber in the back?

Plus one

[onatuesday]

who needs traction when you can drive like this:

[KevinM]

Great showing for the M4 IMO. Not surprising at all. For me, as I'm currently cross shopping many different cars, it's about purpose. If you are planning to track the car a lot - hard to beat the Porsche (well, there is the cost difference, but you can buy used). For a DD/street car - I would much rather have the F8X. Since the latter is what I intend to use the car for, I'm definitely leaning in that direction.

[Dave07997S]

Originally Posted by rngrjag

This is simply not true. A base 991 Carrera does not come with an LSD standard. Only an "S" does. You have to order the PTV or APTV for the base car.
It is impossible to tell from the video whether this car had an LSD or not.

Forgot about that, thanks for setting me straight...

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by trinim3

who needs traction when you can drive like this:

Mother of God

[Taskmaster]

Originally Posted by turbo8765

I did 90 min at VIR in 95 degree heat with the PSS and the only time they got greasy was when I was intentionally sliding the car.

The current PSS is lightyears ahead of the RE11, and I am a huge proponent of the RE11. I have my fourth set in the shop now.

If you destroy a PSS in a weekend your alignment is likely the cause.

The current PSS is a new level for UHP street tires.

That's bs.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

That's bs.

100%

Pss can't handle a 10-15 minute session in 90* + weather with a decent driver in a heavy car like an m3.

The driver in the evo video says the same thing. The pss get hot and greasy and game over. Zero traction , sliding everywhere.

I swapped out to re11 and worlds of differnce, and I'm not even that fast of a driver. Not one person I've ever met tracks on pss unless it's their first time, and they are just learning and it doesn't matter what tires you use.

Extreme summers >>> max performance summers on track. No comparison.

[FogCityM3]

Yeah, ultimately when I swapped rims, I kept the PSS stock sizes but the rims were so slightly wider, stretching out the tires a little more....I think this really helped with increasing the front and rear grip. Now I'm not sure whether to go to a larger tire size as I get the benefits of reducing unsprung weight with more grip. With alot more torque in the M4 though, maybe one does go slightly wider front and rear rims in ultra-lighweight wheel and reduced offset in the front (seems like there is plenty of room esp in the fronts on the M4 to do this) to compensate for wider and heavier rubber in rear. You're right, the whole package needs to be looked at and best to stick with the wheel manufacturers who specialize in BMWs and have tested the proper widths/offsets as you don't want correcting one problem creating another.

Originally Posted by Year's_End

I keep seeing the topic of wider tires being brought up. That's not always the best idea nor an insta-solution. Wider tires won't always increase grip (at least not to a proportional degree that one could expect) as the contact patch will change shape thanks to the weight on it.

If you increase rear tire size, unsprung weight will go up and the car will have a larger tendency to understeer during cornering. That would have to be compensated with suspension adjustments (stiffer rear tuning, larger rear sways or softer fronts, etc.), or you would have to increase front tire width. Once you do that, your steering is impacted, and again, weight goes up.

Not always the best option. It would be easier to simply opt for a more aggressive compound.

http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible_pg3.html

[ron_jeremy]

This track was made for the Porsche, having said that, take nothing away from it, it's a pure sportscar.
Excellent feedback on the M4 thought.

[fuzion98]

Originally Posted by trinim3

They need to stack a Cayman GTS up against the M4

Seeing many Cayman S vs 911 videos, I would say a Cayman S would have same results, and with a similar MSRP as the M3/M4. However, they are two totally different cars. The Porsches are made for these tracks, while M4 and M3 especially have much more functionality along with an awesome driving experience.

[jasonn]

No question you get a lot of bang for your buck with BMW.

I've been loving every minute of my wife's X5, so much added value compared to other German luxury brands. iDrive has improved so much. The touchpad feature works extremely well. Google Maps send to car is so, so convenient. And...the one touch memory buttons! I missed those so much. Collectively, the tech in a BMW makes the Porsche PCM infotainment a joke.

These lap times don't mean much to me since I'm just DDing the car. Don't track much. In fact I only tracked once.

For my next car I would definitely like some more low-end torque. Only problem is that for higher-end cars they really make you pay for it.

Really don't want to settle with an M4 though. It's the affordable option that's for sure and has many nice amenities.

But they really should have not made the 435i msport look so similar to the M4. I would get a special color if I got the M4. Otherwise it's really difficult to differentiate if you went with Alpine White, for example.

Yeah I don't think I'll get the M4. It's just a souped up 4 series.

I'll probably get a weekend car and a comfortable 528i for daily or something. Bah, who knows.

[omegaSMP300]

Nice vid and Marinos insights were very interesting.

[Hoopumpers]

Originally Posted by gthal

PSS are great street tires but they do get very greasy quickly in my experience and you can easily destroy a set in a track weekend. They are probably one of the best dual purpose tires... street and track... but there are much better track oriented tires out there that handle heat better... RE11, AD08R, etc, etc.

When my PSS are toast (likely the end of the summer ) I will put a set of AD-08R on the car for next summer's track season.

Completely agree. AD08R

Also, my experience in Germany on the ring and across the country are to put the M4's throttle in comfort. Sport plus is a poor mapping on this car. Very different than the F10 M5, which I drive in sport plus 100% of the time.

[ign335i]

Originally Posted by turbo8765

I've tracked the current PSS. They are more than up to the challenge. I've tracked MANY different tires and the PSS are the best street tire BY FAR.

They are amazing.

I disagree. Having owned PSS, ad08, Re-11, and runflats on my 335i I can say the PSS is a great street tire particularly in the rain, but it is definitely not as good as the re-11 or the ad08. Both the ad08 and re-11 are just as good as street tires, but measurably stickier than PSS. In the rain they are marginally worse. The PSS is a very mushy tire and does have a propensity to overheat and throw chunks on the track. I did not see a measurable difference in tire wear between AD08 and PSS either, unsure on the re-11 tread life because they are still on. I would give the RE-11 a slight edge over the Ad08 in grip, but its hard to tell since I am comparing used ad08s to new re-11.

On a high level Re-11 and ad08 will hook in second gear, PSS will not. PSS and Re-11 have better ride comfort with ad08 being a little stiff - but much better steering feel. I would take the re-11 if you want max grip and are anal about comfort or the ad08 if you want good steering feel and probably the same grip as re-11 with a little harsher ride. I wouldn't recommend the PSS over the others except in the rain or if you really want a comfortable ride over everything else. For me I will do r888 next or ad08s because I care about the steering feel and grip.

[ign335i]

Originally Posted by TheAxiom

That's bs.

Agreed, those statements aren't based in reality.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by turbo8765

I've tracked the current PSS. They are more than up to the challenge. I've tracked MANY different tires and the PSS are the best street tire BY FAR.

They are amazing.

+1

Likewise here. For a street tire they're the best choice I've seen so far.

Of course if you track your car regularly you shouldn't drive it with street tires anyway. There exist semi-slicks for that purpose such as the Michelin Cup 2. I would wager though if you put cup tires on both cars the gap between the M4 and the Porsche would be even larger, as it would accentuate the weight advantage of the 991.