034Motorsport 2 Piece Floating Front and Rear Brake Rotor for BMW F8X (m2, m3, m4)

[F87source]

Originally Posted by jfritz27

As in many situations, the change in pistons was not made in isolation, so it's hard to comment about them individually, but I haven't had cause to complain so far. For me with the totality of my current setup at the tracks I've run (session max around 25 min I'd say), brake fade has been minimal at worst. Looking forward to seeing what the addition of the cheap BW deflectors do next season.

Interesting thanks for the info, why don't you check out Westersund's brake ducting kit, they're really well built and should be alot more effective than deflectors. They also pump air into the hat which means cooling is distributed to both rotor faces via the internal vanes and this mitigates the chances to warping or cracking one rotor face due to uneven cooling. Essex had an entire article talking about brake ducting on their page highlighting the importance of ducting into the hat and not onto the rotor face.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1895176&page=2

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Yep, you’ve got me figured out. Your net worth in life is based on the reps you get on a forum. Sad. I have e92 M3s and a f82 M4. The f8x rotors are superior to the e9x rotors and if you don’t see the difference immediately then you shouldn’t be creating long posts discussing rotor design.

Didn't need to look hard when you're literally exposing your lack of observational skills, selective bias and spouting unbacked talking points. You claim to be an engineer with 40 years of experience yet you don't seem to grasp the notion of statistics, failure rates, and you seem to only base if something is good or not solely on how many people use it and can't justify it with any other valid talking points.

I'm bringing up forum rep because it clearly shows who's having a positive impact on the forum and whose here to stir the pot with useless posts. I've helped countless forum members from fixing stripped oil pan bolts, diagnosing issues and getting them fixed under warranty, and retrofitting parts for track use. I do this without asking for payment nor a thank you.

You really shouldn't be the one talking about anyone's life net worth being based on the forum, you have been on the forum today starting around midnight posting frequently until now. You've literally made 41 posts in that time span, that's almost 2 posts per hour over a 24 hour span, yesterday it was 33 posts, it's like you live online. Truly sad.


And yet you can't even explain why, you proven time and time again you have horrific observational skills, case and point the rotor hat and mounting tab design. You couldn't even understand the concept of perspective in an image, so you shouldn't even be talking about immediate observations.

The f8x rotor only has a few changes over the e90 rotor. It's larger, has a more spaced out mounting tab system, but there's nothing else that would constitute it to be a massive improvement over the e90 rotor. Is it better? Yes absolutely, it's a small evolution of technology, nothing that would make it a huge improvement like you initially claimed it to be. Go on justify why the design is a huge improvement go for it. The only real thing it has going for it is the larger size and slightly better ventilation from the front which might not yield any noticeable difference on track, nothing major just an expected upgrade as technology advances.

[jfritz27]

Originally Posted by F87source

Interesting thanks for the info, why don't you check out Westersund's brake ducting kit, they're really well built and should be alot more effective than deflectors. They also pump air into the hat which means cooling is distributed to both rotor faces via the internal vanes and this mitigates the chances to warping or cracking one rotor face due to uneven cooling. Essex had an entire article talking about brake ducting on their page highlighting the importance of ducting into the hat and not onto the rotor face.

https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1895176&page=2

Thanks -- I'm actually aware of his kit, and at one point shared it in the track forum as it was hidden in the classified section. Because I haven't had tons of fade, I decided to hold off, and now that BW has their cheap/easy deflector kit available (with reported testing showing performance that is not far off from the GT4 ducting setup), I'm going to go that route first. But the point about directing air to the hat being optimal is well-taken. Since my car is a DD I am trying to keep it as low-maintenance as possible

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by F87source

Didn't need to look hard when you're literally exposing your lack of observational skills, selective bias and spouting unbacked talking points. You claim to be an engineer with 40 years of experience yet you don't seem to grasp the notion of statistics, failure rates, and you seem to only base if something is good or not solely on how many people use it and can't justify it with any other valid talking points.

I'm bringing up forum rep because it clearly shows who's having a positive impact on the forum and whose here to stir the pot with useless posts. I've helped countless forum members from fixing stripped oil pan bolts, diagnosing issues and getting them fixed under warranty, and retrofitting parts for track use. I do this without asking for payment nor a thank you.

You really shouldn't be the one talking about anyone's life net worth being based on the forum, you have been on the forum today starting around midnight posting frequently until now. You've literally made 41 posts in that time span, that's almost 2 posts per hour over a 24 hour span, yesterday it was 33 posts, it's like you live online. Truly sad.


And yet you can't even explain why, you proven time and time again you have horrific observational skills, case and point the rotor hat and mounting tab design. You couldn't even understand the concept of perspective in an image, so you shouldn't even be talking about immediate observations.

The f8x rotor only has a few changes over the e90 rotor. It's larger, has a more spaced out mounting tab system, but there's nothing else that would constitute it to be a massive improvement over the e90 rotor. Is it better? Yes absolutely, it's a small evolution of technology, nothing that would make it a huge improvement like you initially claimed it to be. Go on justify why the design is a huge improvement go for it. The only real thing it has going for it is the larger size and slightly better ventilation from the front which might not yield any noticeable difference on track, nothing major just an expected upgrade as technology advances.

Wow. You are quite the stalker. I have helped 100s of e9x and f8x owners with track suspension setups as well as helping with dialing in damping setting at the track remotely over the years via PMs, phone conversations and emails so rep points don’t always get counted. I’ve also helped quite a few owners with track brake and pad compound setups/issues as well as fine tune pad geometry with brake manufacturers. As for e9x vs f8x rotors, f8x rotors have a significantly improved pin interface design detail with the alum hat which allows more air to enter the vanes and cool the rotors. Sometimes the simplest design details go unnoticed for decades and then the lightbulb goes on. BMW has used the floating steel pin design since the e36 M3 generation yet a design improvement didn’t happen until the fifth generation of the same basic rotor design (used on e92 GTS with fixed calipers). It has absolutely nothing to do with advancing technology since the same manufacturing process was/is used on all of the different generations. It was a simple design feature implemented into the hat design that had absolutely nothing to do with advancing technology. As for the Audi 034 rotors, the same user had the same failures on the 2nd set of rotors 034 had replaced for free even after the owner switched from Ferodo DS2500 pads to CT XP12 pads yet, when he subsequently switched from 034 failed rotors to Girodisc rotors, there were no premature cracks developed on the Girodisc rotors (same driver, same car, same poor caliper design, same heavy front weight bias, same brake vectoring, etc. So this would suggest the rotors, and not the owner, is to blame for radial cracks developing between, and growing all the way thru to the free edge of, mounting tabs. Oh, there’s also been issues with pad radial ID interference with the 034 rotor ID and mounting hat - one of the features you had pointed out that happens on Girodisc rotors but not 034 rotors. Radial dimensions on pad backing plates vary from pad manufacturer to pad manufacturer. Be prepared to modify pads to avoid an interference with 034 rotors if you switch to other pad manufacturers.

[M3SQRD]

You’re one opinionated motherfucker. This shit happens between you and other forum members which suggests there’s a common denominator.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Wow. You are quite the stalker. I have helped 100s of e9x and f8x owners with track suspension setups as well as helping with dialing in damping setting at the track remotely over the years via PMs, phone conversations and emails so rep points don’t always get counted. I’ve also helped quite a few owners with track brake and pad compound setups/issues as well as fine tune pad geometry with brake manufacturers. As for e9x vs f8x rotors, f8x rotors have a significantly improved pin interface design detail with the alum hat which allows more air to enter the vanes and cool the rotors. Sometimes the simplest design details go unnoticed for decades and then the lightbulb goes on. BMW has used the floating steel pin design since the e36 M3 generation yet a design improvement didn’t happen until the fifth generation of the same basic rotor design (used on e92 GTS with fixed calipers). It has absolutely nothing to do with advancing technology since the same manufacturing process was/is used on all of the different generations. It was a simple design feature implemented into the hat design that had absolutely nothing to do with advancing technology. As for the Audi 034 rotors, the same user had the same failures on the 2nd set of rotors 034 had replaced for free even after the owner switched from Ferodo DS2500 pads to CT XP12 pads yet, when he subsequently switched from 034 failed rotors to Girodisc rotors, there were no premature cracks developed on the Girodisc rotors (same driver, same car, same poor caliper design, same heavy front weight bias, same brake vectoring, etc. So this would suggest the rotors, and not the owner, is to blame for radial cracks developing between, and growing all the way thru to the free edge of, mounting tabs. Oh, there’s also been issues with pad radial ID interference with the 034 rotor ID and mounting hat - one of the features you had pointed out that happens on Girodisc rotors but not 034 rotors. Radial dimensions on pad backing plates vary from pad manufacturer to pad manufacturer. Be prepared to modify pads to avoid an interference with 034 rotors if you switch to other pad manufacturers.

You wanted to accuse me of my life's net worth being dependent on the forum without proof, I wanted to see how much time you spent on the forum to be able to make that accusation and all it took was one click on your profile to show what you said was simply projection. And we are supposed to believe you why? As far as being on the forum is concerned your rep points to post ratio speaks for itself.


When I said technology improves I meant braking technology as in the rotor itself not the processes - although machining and 3D printing has come along way. There's no doubt that there is an improvement in rotor design from the e9x to f8x, but the issue is you're saying it's a massive improvement. How do you know it's going to improve cooling that much? The mounting tabs are still the L style design that folds over from the hat into the friction ring and that still blocks a lot of air flow into the vanes and affect it's ability to act like a pump. So despite there being more potential flow into the hat, can it even be utilized especially with a ~36 vane count? So is that really going to be a massive upgrade. Then you said that 2 piece rotors like the 034 rotors wouldn't be able to provide much cooling or performance gain at all and it would be negligible to stopping brake fade. So if a 2 piece rotor with a higher vane count and a mounting system that allows the back side to be a lot more open to air flow is not going to do much, then how is a minor improvement to the hat a major upgrade? That's contradictory.


There are still so many confoubding variables. The Audi owner admitted he needed to improved and turn off traction control after the first rotor ring replacement. How do you know he didnt start to change his driving approach and cool down the rotors properly after his second set of rotor ring failures and 034's suggestion to him? How do you know he didn't realize maybe he was abusing the rotors and decided to do things differently after 2 entire rotors failed and he switched to girodisc. You're assuming the exact same use case but there's no guarantee it was. You also don't know if he was on the same track doing the same lap counts with the girodisc.


Where's your proof of pad issues? Sure pads vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, but they're still going to be as close to OEM as possible. Most of that variation of going to be width to allow for expansion in the caliper. But at the end of the day the pot still cause for concern is the rotor hat and how close it gets to the pad, and that gap varies between rotor manufacturers, and so far from what I have seen there hasn't been any reports of the 034 rotors touching. Especially on bmw's. This means 034 likely has the rotor hags designed with enough gap to ensure that this issue would not be likely to occur.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

You’re one opinionated motherfucker. This shit happens between you and other forum members which suggests there’s a common denominator.

Opinionated absolutely, but I'm also willing to concede when blatantly wrong. For instance alot of people said my images are way too big and required too much scrolling, so I've made the changes and scaled my images down to 30% of original for all future reviews after the individual pointed that out.

Most of the time these debates always occur on my review threads and it always seems to be the f80 forum where there are always trolls like metalm4 (and most of that thread was purged when he got banned): https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2003756&page=2

Who are there just to stir the pot and cause issues, for instance his arguments was that a coding app couldn't do the same thing as esys despite them both changing the same values ans that a coding app was unreliable because it wasn't made by bmw. Then he also said coding changes to the ghas doesn't do anything. So on so forth. And that's where the vast majority of the issues come from. Sometimes it's just people there to call me a shill and being paid for by the company and that sparks another entire debate where I have to address that. I've been told I own malo industries, work for bms, work for bm3, etc etc etc. when none of that is true, it doesn't even make sense because I review parts from clear competitors and that wouldn't even be the case if I worked for a particular company. But yet these always persist, and I get it haters are going to hate and this is an online forum I'm not going to stop free speech. I'll always address it though. Sometimes there are others who literally have told me that the n55 m2 doesn't have coolant temperature issues despite there being ample evidence to the contrary and that sparks a debate. But it is never with ill intentions.


Some times I admit I am indeed opinionated, for example the brake temp stickers, when looking for a set they were either always out of stock, had insane shipping fees from Europe, bad crap adhesive backings etc. But Paragon was the only one that I found that had them in stock, used quality materials, and charged fair prices. They also had great customer service that made the whole process easy. That's why I said they offered the best overall solution in my opinion. Whether or not you agree is up to you, but I'm entitled to my opinion and to argue for it. This is an online forum I expect nothing less than debate, that's where we learn about things we never thought about before and have our minds changed. But if you expect me to roll over and agree with every single then you're sadly mistaken. I told you before I'm a scientist, I have looked at and studied peer reviewed research at the highest level, and have had to critique work from colleagues before and I'm conditioned to question everything until the bitter end before either accepting or rejecting the null hypothesis.

[M3SQRD]

Common sense would’ve told you that I clearly do not spend that much time on the forum routinely because my post count is only ~4k, not 40k. You based your claim on a single snap shot in time. You are the one that keeps bringing up rep to post ratio so it must have a special meaning to you as well as used to help justify your existence. I haven’t once given any thought to this ratio prior to this thread. My life and happiness are not based on online “likes” on a forum.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Common sense would’ve told you that I clearly do not spend that much time on the forum routinely because my post count is only ~4k, not 40k. You based your claim on a single snap shot in time. You are the one that keeps bringing up rep to post ratio so it must have a special meaning to you as well as used to help justify your existence. I haven’t once given any thought to this ratio prior to this thread. My life and happiness are not based on online “likes” on a forum.

It doesn't look that way from the previous week or more of activity.


Im trying to use post to rep ratio to exemplify who's trying to stir the pot here based on literally one bad use case with no other occurrences, and you jump from one point to the other trying to back your claim. You're literally trying to say the product is faulty based on one case which turned out to be abuse. I can literally find cases of girodisc's cracking with a similar amount of track use, did I say they were faulty? No everyone's use case is different and there is a chance you can be doing something so extreme you wear the rotor out faster, doesn't mean it is a serious design flaw. This is not the same thing as BMW's spun crank hub issue, or the plastic charge pipe blowing up where you see it happening over and over and over on with different users, different use cases, and with an extremely high replicate count. At this point even though there are a significant amount of confounding variables meaning internal validity will be low, we have so many replicates we are still be able to draw a fairly certain assumption that these parts are very likely defective and not due to chance and chance alone (you will need even more data to and perform a statistical test to determine if indeed this is the case and say for sure, but at this point for generally speaking we can say yeah there probably is a problem here just by seeing the sheer number of issues). And since we have confounding variables external validity will be high meaning the ability for us to apply our conclusion to other cases will more likely be valid. These are simple statistics you do when testing, and so far that doesn't apply to the 034 rotors nor the girodisc case I have pointed out.

At this point it just looks like you're a hater, and for what reason? You accused me of being compensated by 034 for defending their product, I can do the same. Are you paid by other companies to smack down the competition?


Like I said before I was trying to test out a new never used before rotor (034) that I thought was extremely promising and had all the qualities to be what I feel is the best option for the F8X community. It by no means surpasses all rotors in all areas, but the culmination of all of its qualities really makes it hard to be topped. I was being fair and objective.



I have said this before, despite disagreeing with some people on the forum and debating I have no ill will towards anyone - including you, I just want you to understand this I am just defending my point of view and would concede if I were wrong. If it were to ever come down to it where you needed help with something, idk warranty, stripped threads (let's hope not because it really seems to be common on these f8x oil sumps), tuning, coding, etc. And I were able to help, I would still absolutely walk you through what I know step by step in order to hopefully set you on the right path. For example I helped this lady in Texas with her valvetronic issues (they were intermittent and as you know those kinds of issues are impossible to diagnose because they can happen whenever and where ever and you can't pin point it easily), I advised her to always record the car when you unlock it or wake it up as that is when the car actuates the eccentric shaft and those issues can occur, and I also gave them all the puma numbers and previous documentation available where others had this issue, and eventually she got her issue properly diagnosed by the dealer technician and fixed. The same thing with the rear rock shield issue on these cars, some people misdiagnose it as a diff issue, but I was able to help people diagnose this and get their rear brake shields replaced under warranty because BMW released a TSB on it. And like I said before I would do the same for you or anyone that needs help.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by F87source

It doesn't look that way from the previous week or more of activity.


Im trying to use post to rep ratio to exemplify who's trying to stir the pot here based on literally one bad use case with no other occurrences, and you jump from one point to the other trying to back your claim. You're literally trying to say the product is faulty based on one case which turned out to be abuse. I can literally find cases of girodisc's cracking with a similar amount of track use, did I say they were faulty? No everyone's use case is different and there is a chance you can be doing something so extreme you wear the rotor out faster, doesn't mean it is a serious design flaw. This is not the same thing as BMW's spun crank hub issue, or the plastic charge pipe blowing up where you see it happening over and over and over on with different users, different use cases, and with an extremely high replicate count. At this point even though there are a significant amount of confounding variables meaning internal validity will be low, we have so many replicates we are still be able to draw a fairly certain assumption that these parts are very likely defective and not due to chance and chance alone (you will need even more data to and perform a statistical test to determine if indeed this is the case and say for sure, but at this point for generally speaking we can say yeah there probably is a problem here just by seeing the sheer number of issues). And since we have confounding variables external validity will be high meaning the ability for us to apply our conclusion to other cases will more likely be valid. These are simple statistics you do when testing, and so far that doesn't apply to the 034 rotors nor the girodisc case I have pointed out.

At this point it just looks like you're a hater, and for what reason? You accused me of being compensated by 034 for defending their product, I can do the same. Are you paid by other companies to smack down the competition?


Like I said before I was trying to test out a new never used before rotor (034) that I thought was extremely promising and had all the qualities to be what I feel is the best option for the F8X community. It by no means surpasses all rotors in all areas, but the culmination of all of its qualities really makes it hard to be topped. I was being fair and objective.



I have said this before, despite disagreeing with some people on the forum and debating I have no ill will towards anyone - including you, I just want you to understand this I am just defending my point of view and would concede if I were wrong. If it were to ever come down to it where you needed help with something, idk warranty, stripped threads (let's hope not because it really seems to be common on these f8x oil sumps), tuning, coding, etc. And I were able to help, I would still absolutely walk you through what I know step by step in order to hopefully set you on the right path. For example I helped this lady in Texas with her valvetronic issues (they were intermittent and as you know those kinds of issues are impossible to diagnose because they can happen whenever and where ever and you can't pin point it easily), I advised her to always record the car when you unlock it or wake it up as that is when the car actuates the eccentric shaft and those issues can occur, and I also gave them all the puma numbers and previous documentation available where others had this issue, and eventually she got her issue properly diagnosed by the dealer technician and fixed. The same thing with the rear rock shield issue on these cars, some people misdiagnose it as a diff issue, but I was able to help people diagnose this and get their rear brake shields replaced under warranty because BMW released a TSB on it. And like I said before I would do the same for you or anyone that needs help.

Like most responses, TL;DR. If you must know I’m recovering from major surgery so I’ve been spending more time on the forums for the past month or so. Prior to this, I couldn’t tell you the last time I had posted anything to the forum.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Like most responses, TL;DR. If you must know I’m recovering from major surgery so I’ve been spending more time on the forums for the past month or so. Prior to this, I couldn’t tell you the last time I had posted anything to the forum.

Sorry to hear about that, hope you get better soon.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by F87source

Sorry to hear about that, hope you get better soon.

Thanks. Prognosis is not good.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Thanks. Prognosis is not good.

Sorry to hear about that, hope you make a full recovery.

[jfritz27]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Thanks. Prognosis is not good.

Ugh, sorry to hear. Wishing you the best

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by jfritz27

Ugh, sorry to hear. Wishing you the best

Thanks. It looks like my driving days may be over

[F87source]

Just posted a review of 034Motosport's replacement rotor rings for this rotor upgrade: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2077726

If you guys are interested in what the replacement looks like or want to see the bobbin system in more detail you can check it out there. I tried to take a lot of photos so you guys can see every little detail.


Also jfritz27, I remember you said your rotors are getting worn down, so if you wanted to see what the replacement rotor rings look like before you purchase some new rings you can take a look at my review thread for them. I also have some instructions posted so you can see the torque specs and tightening pattern etc ahead of time so you know what you might need to do the job properly (a torque wrench that can accurately torque down a low torque rating, and blue loctite).

[jfritz27]

Originally Posted by F87source

Just posted a review of 034Motosport's replacement rotor rings for this rotor upgrade: https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2077726

If you guys are interested in what the replacement looks like or want to see the bobbin system in more detail you can check it out there. I tried to take a lot of photos so you guys can see every little detail.


Also jfritz27, I remember you said your rotors are getting worn down, so if you wanted to see what the replacement rotor rings look like before you purchase some new rings you can take a look at my review thread for them. I also have some instructions posted so you can see the torque specs and tightening pattern etc ahead of time so you know what you might need to do the job properly (a torque wrench that can accurately torque down a low torque rating, and blue loctite).

Nice... thanks!

I think I mentioned this somewhere, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately?) FCP won't apply a partial credit (from returning just the rotors from the original, first purchase of the hat+rotor) towards a 1st replacement set of just-rotors. So given that, when the time comes, I'll just buy a whole new set of hat+rotors, then return the original hat+rotors. While the outlay is more, at least I can get the full credit on the original purchase.

[F87source]

Originally Posted by jfritz27

Nice... thanks!

I think I mentioned this somewhere, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately?) FCP won't apply a partial credit (from returning just the rotors from the original, first purchase of the hat+rotor) towards a 1st replacement set of just-rotors. So given that, when the time comes, I'll just buy a whole new set of hat+rotors, then return the original hat+rotors. While the outlay is more, at least I can get the full credit on the original purchase.

Ah I see, well it's better to just get the entire thing I guess, no reassembly required and you get new hats.

[jfritz27]

Originally Posted by F87source

Ah I see, well it's better to just get the entire thing I guess, no reassembly required and you get new hats.

So if anyone was thinking about trying these, now is time to pull the trigger. They are on sale, and FCPEuro has a code (SPRING5) that will get you another 5% off.