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View Poll Results: Model Year & Configuration (F80 / F82, OEM hubs ONLY)
2015 Stock Tune - No Failure 65 15.85%
2015 Stock Tune - Failure Confirmed 7 1.71%
2015 Tuned - No Failure 109 26.59%
2015 Tuned - Failure 8 1.95%
2016 Stock Tune - No Failure 54 13.17%
2016 Stock Tune - Failure Confirmed 3 0.73%
2016 Tuned - No Failure 46 11.22%
2016 Tuned - Failure 6 1.46%
2017 Stock Tune - No Failure 49 11.95%
2017 Stock Tune - Failure Confirmed 6 1.46%
2017 Tuned - No Failure 45 10.98%
2017 Tuned - Failure 12 2.93%
Voters: 410. You may not vote on this poll

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      03-20-2019, 08:28 PM   #89
TrueNorthM5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhymb View Post
Based on your comment, I don't think you understand the purpose of a fail-safe. I'm not implying anything, I'm stating that the crank hub has a specific operating window. When pushed outside this window, the part breaks.

Instead of asking me to stop and think about what I am implying, take a second and learn about the purpose of a fail-safe in a mechanical system. In this case, a SCH is a less expensive and less detrimental failure than suffering internal engine damage.

Regardless, the validity of a belief is independent from how many times it's mentioned in a forum.
Problem with that theory is that once the crank hub is out , significant internal engine damage can result: Valves hitting pistons is a teardown scenario.
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      03-20-2019, 08:54 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhymb View Post
Based on your comment, I don't think you understand the purpose of a fail-safe. I'm not implying anything, I'm stating that the crank hub has a specific operating window. When pushed outside this window, the part breaks.

Instead of asking me to stop and think about what I am implying, take a second and learn about the purpose of a fail-safe in a mechanical system. In this case, a SCH is a less expensive and less detrimental failure than suffering internal engine damage.

Regardless, the validity of a belief is independent from how many times it's mentioned in a forum.
I understand a fail safe and yes parts having an operating window as you mentioned but this part was not designed or intended to slip ever, they realized it can slip that's why there has been small revisions as you know. You do realize obviously depending on how much the hub slips you can have catastrophic failure which many have had as well? So they built in a window to allow some to catastrophically break and others to not? Some at stock power levels while other well modified? I guess I don't follow your train of thought here on your fail safe...

The hub was designed this way because the engine has no removable front timing cover. It was cost vs production reason making assembly easier the way they designed it that's all. I've also verified this with a bmw engineer.
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      03-20-2019, 09:01 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueNorthM3 View Post
Problem with that theory is that once the crank hub is out , significant internal engine damage can result: Valves hitting pistons is a teardown scenario.
Yeah that's certainly a fair point. But the idea of a fail-safe is to reduce damage, not circumvent it entirely.
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      03-20-2019, 09:47 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by cbrtrx View Post
I understand a fail safe and yes parts having an operating window as you mentioned but this part was not designed or intended to slip ever, they realized it can slip that's why there has been small revisions as you know.
Lets be more precise. In normal operating conditions the probability of slipping is incredibly low (effectively 0 we could expect). To say that a part will never slip or fail is utopic and unrealistic. At some point along a spectrum, there exists a circumstance where a part will fail. Whether that is observable in real life or not, that limit exists.

The argument I made concerning the revisions is that this limit is too low and can occur in stock vehicles. I think this a point that we agree on, but in different words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrtrx View Post
You do realize obviously depending on how much the hub slips you can have catastrophic failure which many have had as well?
The idea is that some event has caused an undue amount of stress to the crankshaft and by allowing the crank hub to break, the probability of more severe engine damage is decreased.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrtrx View Post
So they built in a window to allow some to catastrophically break and others to not? Some at stock power levels while other well modified? I guess I don't follow your train of thought here on your fail safe...
I don't mean to be rude but I addressed this train of thought in post 83 of this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrtrx View Post
... It was cost vs production reason making assembly easier the way they designed it that's all. I've also verified this with a bmw engineer.
No offense, but I call bullshit. I believe you spoke to a BMW engineer at the dealer, like many of us have. But I highly doubt you spoke to an engineer with the qualifications and clearance to discuss the design of the crank hub w.r.t. failure rates, engine building/design, and production engineering. In a company like BMW, these tasks will be spread across several working groups. Lastly, I know it is comfortable to simplify complex matters into one line responses that are easily palatable, but often times the causes to detrimental failures in complex systems are... more complex. Specifically, to suggest that the design of something like the crank hub is only subject to constraints on cost and production is just naive - sorry.
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      03-20-2019, 10:00 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhymb View Post
Lets be more precise. In normal operating conditions the probability of slipping is incredibly low (effectively 0 we could expect). To say that a part will never slip or fail is utopic and unrealistic. At some point along a spectrum, there exists a circumstance where a part will fail. Whether that is observable in real life or not, that limit exists.

The argument I made concerning the revisions is that this limit is too low and can occur in stock vehicles. I think this a point that we agree on, but in different words.



The idea is that some event has caused an undue amount of stress to the crankshaft and by allowing the crank hub to break, the probability of more severe engine damage is decreased.



I don't mean to be rude but I addressed this train of thought in post 83 of this thread.



No offense, but I call bullshit. I believe you spoke to a BMW engineer at the dealer, like many of us have. But I highly doubt you spoke to an engineer with the qualifications and clearance to discuss the design of the crank hub w.r.t. failure rates, engine building/design, and production engineering. In a company like BMW, these tasks will be spread across several working groups. Lastly, I know it is comfortable to simplify complex matters into one line responses that are easily palatable, but often times the causes to detrimental failures in complex systems are... more complex. Specifically, to suggest that the design of something like the crank hub is only subject to constraints on cost and production is just naive - sorry.

You clearly dont know what you're talking about in this particular area or my background. The dealer part was pretty funny, bahahaha. I feel no need to go into deeper detail about it. I think you're just looking to argue at this point, a type of person that just wants to try to prove his/her point when there isn't even a point to prove anymore so I will let you do that. I'm not sorry.
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      03-20-2019, 10:06 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbrtrx View Post
You clearly dont know what you're talking about in this particular area or my background. The dealer part was pretty funny, bahahaha. I feel no need to go into deeper detail about it. I think you're just looking to argue at this point, a type of person that just wants to try to prove his/her point when there isn't even a point to prove anymore so I will let you do that. I'm not sorry.
lol ditto - i feel the same way about your comments as well
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      05-02-2021, 10:25 AM   #95
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I don't know the whole details, but someone in the DC/Maryland/Virginia Bimmerpost group who has just a crank bolt capture just spun his crank hub. Here's from the owner:

"I have upgraded turbos and everything else you can name. I have had the CBC since the day I bought the car. And the only thing I can think of is earlier today I launched the car on a green light. But nothing happens. Drove home. Then around. Then started the car and bam codes. Limped it home like 3 miles away."

"And yes I have the Vargas GC. Making 630whp on pump"

Attached are the codes that came from the car.
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      05-02-2021, 11:32 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsm.m4 View Post
I don't know the whole details, but someone in the DC/Maryland/Virginia Bimmerpost group who has just a crank bolt capture just spun his crank hub. Here's from the owner:

"I have upgraded turbos and everything else you can name. I have had the CBC since the day I bought the car. And the only thing I can think of is earlier today I launched the car on a green light. But nothing happens. Drove home. Then around. Then started the car and bam codes. Limped it home like 3 miles away."

"And yes I have the Vargas GC. Making 630whp on pump"

Attached are the codes that came from the car.
That doesn't look like a spun crank hub code. It's more like a blown engine caused by a ragged edge tune which further resulted into mechanical failure.
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      05-02-2021, 11:55 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedPiston View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsm.m4 View Post
I don't know the whole details, but someone in the DC/Maryland/Virginia Bimmerpost group who has just a crank bolt capture just spun his crank hub. Here's from the owner:

"I have upgraded turbos and everything else you can name. I have had the CBC since the day I bought the car. And the only thing I can think of is earlier today I launched the car on a green light. But nothing happens. Drove home. Then around. Then started the car and bam codes. Limped it home like 3 miles away."

"And yes I have the Vargas GC. Making 630whp on pump"

Attached are the codes that came from the car.
That doesn't look like a spun crank hub code. It's more like a blown engine caused by a ragged edge tune which further resulted into mechanical failure.
Ok, I'm by far not in the know for what definitively pinpoints to a spun crank hub so I'm going off of a group chat. Also it's what the owner said happened, at least what he believes right now.

Thanks for clarifying. The owner is going to keep us updated, will know more in a couple weeks once it's in the shop etc.
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      05-02-2021, 04:50 PM   #98
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What indicates a blown engine? The 120408?
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      05-02-2021, 05:31 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsm.m4 View Post
Ok, I'm by far not in the know for what definitively pinpoints to a spun crank hub so I'm going off of a group chat. Also it's what the owner said happened, at least what he believes right now.

Thanks for clarifying. The owner is going to keep us updated, will know more in a couple weeks once it's in the shop etc.
Yup, please feel free to quote me if I'm wrong, assuming the owner actually gets around to a tear down soon.

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What indicates a blown engine? The 120408?
Going by first hand experience with a blown engine and the same trouble codes. Both intake and exhaust camshafts would be out of range with an SCH.
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      05-02-2021, 06:25 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Shadow2 View Post
What indicates a blown engine? The 120408?
+1 to what FriedPiston said. That and the lean AFR codes point to a tune that's riding on the edge.
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