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      07-28-2014, 06:29 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Based on the pictures in the OP, it looks like the stock exhaust.
Damn!! Not bad then. Aftermarket set up on this is gonna rip.
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      07-28-2014, 07:21 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by 04RC51 View Post
I always found drifting the be the most useless discipline of driving ever for the same reasons! You take cars that the manufacturers spent untold millions to get them to handle properly and then you do your best not to handle?
drifting, is the definition of handling at the limit (sarcasm)...but it is also a part of the "handle properly" part....drift an M car and something else and you will see what ppl mean when they say this car is so well balanced and easy to drive.
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      09-18-2014, 04:40 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by gmcconn535 View Post
I will probably get laughed out of this forum, but ....

I am old school and a long time DIYer. I "grew up" in an environment where after-market products were designed to compenate for weaknesses and "flaws" in engineering. Every day, I am amazed at all the people getting springs, shocks, etc., etc. for cars that they have not even taken delivery of. I have owned nothing but BMWs since 1977 and this will be my 14th different BMW. In my mind, there is no doubt that this will be the best BMW that I have ever purchased. When I pay $80k for an ///M4, I don't see the need to spend thousands of dollars to "improve" on what the BMW engineers worked hard to develop in the first place. But then that is just me .......
Fully agree with you. The engineers who designed the M4 could have surely pushed out a more powerful engine, better sounding exhaust (insert other component here) but they had to balance everything against emissions, reliability and cost, so stock represents the optimal point for the 'average' consumer. Those wishing to trade off reliability for power are of course at liberty to do so.
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      09-18-2014, 07:35 AM   #26
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The ride height has to be just rights to the eye, the tires have to look shiny and flush with fenders, and many more other reasons that my imagination will short out. They are no less enthusiast than we are, are they?
I'm not sure if they would be considered as automotive performance enthusiasts, more like automotive style enthusiasts. And the world needs both types of enthusiasts by the way. I do think that believing the styling changes you make improves performance in any way is simply wrong though.

As an example putting spacers on the front to get the tires to sit flush (besides the obvious suspension changes) is going to have an effect on the air curtain system and certainly some effect on the air path through the extractors. To be honest I have no idea what the effect will be, good or bad, but I don't presume it's going to be better than the factory designed offset. Just off hand when you change the flow of the air curtain system drag will likely go up, with the possibility of worse mileage and lower top speed. I have no idea if it would be a large enough effect to be noticed though. Changing the flow of air through the wheel well and out the extractors may be significant enough to effect braking performance because of excess heat. Probably not in daily driving, but perhaps for autocross and track days.

I think if you are a automotive performance enthusiast you should be thinking about those types of things.
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      09-18-2014, 07:41 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by JeffM-Houston View Post
I'm not sure if they would be considered as automotive performance enthusiasts, more like automotive style enthusiasts. And the world needs both types of enthusiasts by the way. I do think that believing the styling changes you make improves performance in any way is simply wrong though.

As an example putting spacers on the front to get the tires to sit flush (besides the obvious suspension changes) is going to have an effect on the air curtain system and certainly some effect on the air path through the extractors. To be honest I have no idea what the effect will be, good or bad, but I don't presume it's going to be better than the factory designed offset. Just off hand when you change the flow of the air curtain system drag will likely go up, with the possibility of worse mileage and lower top speed. I have no idea if it would be a large enough effect to be noticed though. Changing the flow of air through the wheel well and out the extractors may be significant enough to effect braking performance because of excess heat. Probably not in daily driving, but perhaps for autocross and track days.

I think if you are a automotive performance enthusiast you should be thinking about those types of things.
You trying to tell me the guys in Munich know more about automotive engineering than my local tint shop does? Shame on you.
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      09-18-2014, 08:22 AM   #28
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i think any sports car should come with a school to at least introduce some safe driving concepts and promote them into getting more training. bmw does this quite well with their performance center delivery program which is absolutely free.

living in germany for many years i saw many americans easily able to purchase 400+ hp driving machines from bmw and every other company. many of them certainly earned it on the battlefield. but then they go on and have accidents on seemingly clear days.

its a travesty that insurance agencies cover reckless driving on a public road and then we get so much shit for having organized driver education on a closed road in as safe an environment as possible.

if anyone is in augusta area and would like just some hints on safer driving please look me up.
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      09-18-2014, 09:43 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcconn535 View Post
I will probably get laughed out of this forum, but ....

I am old school and a long time DIYer. I "grew up" in an environment where after-market products were designed to compenate for weaknesses and "flaws" in engineering. Every day, I am amazed at all the people getting springs, shocks, etc., etc. for cars that they have not even taken delivery of. I have owned nothing but BMWs since 1977 and this will be my 14th different BMW. In my mind, there is no doubt that this will be the best BMW that I have ever purchased. When I pay $80k for an ///M4, I don't see the need to spend thousands of dollars to "improve" on what the BMW engineers worked hard to develop in the first place. But then that is just me .......
I'm in total agreement with you on this subject. Modifying an older car for better performance/reliability is one thing. But modifying a brand new car seems like a waste of money to me...with all the money that some people put into suspension, engine tuning, exhaust, brakes, ect., they might as well have bought a better car to begin with.

As well, I'm not fully convinced that all of these aftermarket performance parts provide a true performance boost. Some probably do, sometimes with degraded reliability, but some offer little if any enhancement for a whole of $$$. If you want the best overall performance while still maintaining the best overall reliability, the factory setup is the way to go.

But that's my opinion....to each his own.
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      09-18-2014, 11:14 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
I'm in total agreement with you on this subject. Modifying an older car for better performance/reliability is one thing. But modifying a brand new car seems like a waste of money to me...with all the money that some people put into suspension, engine tuning, exhaust, brakes, ect., they might as well have bought a better car to begin with.

As well, I'm not fully convinced that all of these aftermarket performance parts provide a true performance boost. Some probably do, sometimes with degraded reliability, but some offer little if any enhancement for a whole of $$$. If you want the best overall performance while still maintaining the best overall reliability, the factory setup is the way to go.

But that's my opinion....to each his own.
well with every M car since the E30 you really couldn't take a factory fresh example bone stock to a track and expect it to keep up. so i would say from that standpoint some people genuinely want to change some parts just so it can do what they intend to do with it safely and reliably.

in this case its the first time that bone stock the car do it all. a caveat is you have to be careful with coming in hot off the track as the pad compound is quite low temp and will stick to the rotors. doesn't affect performance just annoying while you scrape the pad deposit off.

other than that its really for aesthetics and bragging rights. some may do a tune and try it at a drag strip but most wont ever use all the power this car has on tap from the factory.

there is nothing wrong with modifying cars though. its fun. for me personally i want to see how the HAS kit works with the awesome adaptive shocks. also i want to corner balance my car perfectly and see how much it improves lap times.

the car is amazing stock. and i also am all for everyone doing whatever the hell they want to their own cars and enjoy seeing them out there.

improvements that this car can use for track.

1. less weight (universal)
2. wider wheels and rubber all around.
3. endurance pads on oem steel rotors/calipers
4. high temp brake fluid
5. corner balancing/alignment with more neg camber.
6. paint protection film to keep it from looking like hell. i swear this is the softest paint ever on a car.
later on
7. roll cage, harness, fixed back seats, smaller steering wheel.
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      09-18-2014, 01:10 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by karussell View Post
improvements that this car can use for track.

1. less weight (universal)
2. wider wheels and rubber all around.
3. endurance pads on oem steel rotors/calipers
4. high temp brake fluid
5. corner balancing/alignment with more neg camber.
6. paint protection film to keep it from looking like hell. i swear this is the softest paint ever on a car.
later on
7. roll cage, harness, fixed back seats, smaller steering wheel.
Those kinds of modifications seem logical and feasible (except for #1), especially for someone going to the track.

My post should have been more nuanced, but to clarify, I do agree with you that that there are basic upgrades, or mods, that do make sense from a cost and performance perspective. What I don't understand is the mod-crazy trend to take a brand new M3 and totally rework all of the major components (engine tune, wheels, exhaust, suspension, cooling systems, turbo's, ect.) With the thousands, potentially well over $10k, added to the $ tag for a brand new car, those people would be better off buying a better car to begin with.

As I said earlier, my 2 cents...people have different views on this.
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      09-18-2014, 02:25 PM   #32
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modifying (changing) a car to get reliability, and more use out of consumables is perfectly reasonable to be- such as camber plates to not chew up front tires at an hpde.
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      09-18-2014, 04:09 PM   #33
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Outstanding writing and opinions. I especially appreciated this line as it is exactly how I feel about my M3. I will only add OEM enhancements that are mostly cosmetic with the exception of the MPE as this car just does it all. Having been driven in a stock car on racetrack by several pros there is just no way I could ever imagine maxing out the limits of this car as is.

Quote:
But the M4 cannot be treated with the same tuning abandon as sports cars of ten or fifteen years ago, at least outside of the professional realm. The car should be treated with respect to its capability, and most importantly to the harmony created in all its components. Sports car have changed, and its time we pause and appreciate that. The speed this car can achieve even on the bump-laden public roads of PVGP is something to be respected, and to claim that the car lacks something in performance is ridiculous.
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      09-18-2014, 04:31 PM   #34
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How much does it cost to be the passenger in a Hot Lap at PVGP? It looks exhilarating!
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      09-18-2014, 04:59 PM   #35
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I live in pittsburgh and the course is wider than it looks on video, also these drivers have great control of these cars. I was a passenger on multiple occasions in a " Hot Lap" in an M5 at the M performance school, and Panamera GTS at other porsche events, these drivers are professional and not only they control these cars , but they do it with minimal effort. Look at the Lady she was smiling all the time, obviously she was not worried about the driver crashing the car
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      09-19-2014, 10:31 AM   #36
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The new M4 is pretty much as good as it gets for the total overall package. The future may be a lot less exciting for true enthusiasts -think CAFE, emissions, hybrids, smart highways, smart cars etc... Unless of course you can afford cars like the new hybrid Porsches.
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      09-19-2014, 11:20 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by IB M View Post
The new M4 is pretty much as good as it gets for the total overall package. The future may be a lot less exciting for true enthusiasts -think CAFE, emissions, hybrids, smart highways, smart cars etc... Unless of course you can afford cars like the new hybrid Porsches.
Hybrid Porsche's and McLaren P1's are the reasons I still have hope for there being awesome cars in the future. Right now, those two cars, among a few others, have combined electronic motors with internal combustion to produce fabulous results. Hopefully within the next 10 years, that technology has made its way into cars that are more accessible to the general public. Look at BMW's I8. At this rate, BMW is only a few years away from putting out an entry level hybrid car.
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      09-19-2014, 03:06 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Dalko43 View Post
Hybrid Porsche's and McLaren P1's are the reasons I still have hope for there being awesome cars in the future. Right now, those two cars, among a few others, have combined electronic motors with internal combustion to produce fabulous results. Hopefully within the next 10 years, that technology has made its way into cars that are more accessible to the general public. Look at BMW's I8. At this rate, BMW is only a few years away from putting out an entry level hybrid car.

I don't think it will take that long. Rumour is, is that the R36 GT-R will be a V6TT hybrid and with about 700-800 hp. Assuming Nissan doesn't price it in a ridiculous fashion, it might be available for purchase in 2-3 years to us regular joes? Certainly they won't be the only major manufacturer to do so. As CO2 emissions get ever tighter, adding electric motors and batteries will not only make the cars of the near future more efficient, but also even faster when the software is written allowing them to do so.
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      09-19-2014, 10:50 PM   #39
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The grin on the girl's face for the entire ride tells the story! Cool video (given the professional driver and closed circuit).
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      09-20-2014, 03:08 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcconn535 View Post
I will probably get laughed out of this forum, but ....

I am old school and a long time DIYer. I "grew up" in an environment where after-market products were designed to compenate for weaknesses and "flaws" in engineering. Every day, I am amazed at all the people getting springs, shocks, etc., etc. for cars that they have not even taken delivery of. I have owned nothing but BMWs since 1977 and this will be my 14th different BMW. In my mind, there is no doubt that this will be the best BMW that I have ever purchased. When I pay $80k for an ///M4, I don't see the need to spend thousands of dollars to "improve" on what the BMW engineers worked hard to develop in the first place. But then that is just me .......
Totally agree on the non-need to add any aftermarket part to a fine-tuned instrument from BMW M. I see no need what so ever to divert from the original set up of this marvel of an precise instrument.
My previous Saab Turbo cars has been given adjustable chassis components, but that was to make those cars reasonably drivable on track meetings.
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      09-20-2014, 03:31 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Caelric View Post
The car certainly performs better in a straight line with the DCT and likely performs better at the track with the DCT.

Regardless, to me, it's much more fun to have three pedals, and that's why my M4 is ordered with the 6 speed.
At my age of 49 I have my very first Automatic transmission. 4-5-6 Speed cars of the SAAB brand has been my previous car life. But the DCT sequential double clutch IS the very best gearbox "decent" money "deliver". I am not missing that third pedal on the floor. The DCT should be the standard box for the M4. I am aware that BMW is contemplating scrubbing manual transmissions. One reason is the much higher service/repair costs of the sticks compared to the bullet-proof DCT. I am 100% in love with the DCT. Smooth slik evening drive with my wife through central Stockholm (just as smooth as the DAF 66 Variomatics in the 1970ies), or hard hitting gear changes on a racetrack. With DTC it is Your choice.... I feel like a million dollars having made the right choice in the car world. M4 delivers at a very reasonalbe amount of money
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      09-20-2014, 06:49 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by JeffM-Houston View Post
I'm not sure if they would be considered as automotive performance enthusiasts, more like automotive style enthusiasts. And the world needs both types of enthusiasts by the way. I do think that believing the styling changes you make improves performance in any way is simply wrong though.

As an example putting spacers on the front to get the tires to sit flush (besides the obvious suspension changes) is going to have an effect on the air curtain system and certainly some effect on the air path through the extractors. To be honest I have no idea what the effect will be, good or bad, but I don't presume it's going to be better than the factory designed offset. Just off hand when you change the flow of the air curtain system drag will likely go up, with the possibility of worse mileage and lower top speed. I have no idea if it would be a large enough effect to be noticed though. Changing the flow of air through the wheel well and out the extractors may be significant enough to effect braking performance because of excess heat. Probably not in daily driving, but perhaps for autocross and track days.

I think if you are a automotive performance enthusiast you should be thinking about those types of things.
The bigger effect is likely the increased track leading to slightly higher static handling limits at the expense of dynamic nimbleness. A wider track will, all else being equal, will feel less toss-able, but likely have a slightly higher limits.
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