Alberta M3 Represent.....sigh.

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by myzmak

I think his point is that in the USA, if I crash my car, I sue the car maker. in Germany, I go to the hospital.

North American society has become quick to blame rather than accept risk onto ourselves.

Originally Posted by ASAP

You just hit the crux of the problem... but that goes way above just speeding.

Yes that was part of my point. Every country/society has it's own "moral code".

In the US we can buy and use more guns than many other countries. A British citizen may rail against the fact they can't get the type of firearms we can here and say how stupid it is. The US has a higher tolerance for gun violence because it is more important to have access to the weapons. For driving, Germany has decided they are willing to make the effort and deal with the risk of higher speed limits (or none). There is so much inertia to overcome to change certain thought processes. Imagine the hew and cry if the speed limit were removed for certain US highways. The first accident with bodily harm would get plastered all over the news, we would have a special ribbon color for it, and we would be reminded over and over how dangerous it is to drive fast.

I just think the best chance of any unrestricted speed areas is to increase road funding and basically pay to speed through speed rated licenses.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by myzmak

I think his point is that in the USA, if I crash my car, I sue the car maker. in Germany, I go to the hospital.

North American society has become quick to blame rather than accept risk onto ourselves.

Originally Posted by ASAP

You just hit the crux of the problem... but that goes way above just speeding.

I think there is another huge difference between German and US society right now that prevents this from ever happening in the US.

I'll try not to get too political, but for some reason there huge opposition to putting money and raising the necessary funds to upgrade our infrastructure. And it needs a serious influx of cash badly to fix decades of neglect.

Also, people would freak out here if they had to pay the 2-4k it takes to get a license in Germany. Also, their laws are considerably more strict if you do break the rules. Just check out their equivalent DUI standards to ours and fine structures in general. So we just hand out cheap licenses with the bare minimum of driver training with fairly lax laws and wonder why the majority of drivers here are terrible. Go figure.

[2HIGH~PSI]

All points are very true.

German drivers are better. More aware of surroundings and rules of road and courtesies.
Less attitude of "its my right to go as slow as I want in any lane I choose"

I would say its more of this, than their roads. We have some pretty damn good roads here, the danger is the other drivers.

[smithf80]

Who slows down when going that fast? Unless there was no where to pull off I guess.

Even still shouldn't have been going that fast.

[gthal]

I love the irony that he was heading to the track

Common sense would suggest the police know about the track, likely know when there are events, and likely are on the look out... not bright on his/her part.

I wonder how long they will be walking instead of driving? I bet it it will be a long while

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by smithf32

Who slows down when going that fast? Unless there was no where to pull off I guess.

Even still shouldn't have been going that fast.

In another story on the same event, they note that they also had (in the same area) a couple of sport bikes doing 175 recently. One stopped, the other didn't

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Spruc...059/story.html

Best part is the officer basically saying "yeah, if it is a bike and they don't stop, there is nothing we can do...."

Even MORE strange: the cop who got the M3 was just using radar.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...rcmp-1.3089577

Not sure how the M3 driver didn't see/have any time to react to the cop (as he was literally going as fast as he could when tagged....)

[MasterC17]

This is my personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt, but honestly if there is no one else around I don't see the issue with driving 150mph, or faster if you please. If the only person you are going to hurt is yourself why should anyone else care? E.g. if I decide to do something stupid should I expect a police officer or some other government official to come over every time to ticket me or tell me I am doing something wrong? In my opinion people are overly scared of speed, don't understand it, and people who do understand it and know what they are doing and do it when circumstances allow for it sometimes end up wrongly convicted for "crimes". The fact that this guy could face jail time over this is ludicrous. Frankly, 154mph is not that fast. Should the guy have been doing it - probably not. Was he going to hurt anyone including himself - probably not.

Now given if you try to do 150mph in your 1998 Civic then yes, I would be worried

[gthal]

Originally Posted by MasterC17

This is my personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt, but honestly if there is no one else around I don't see the issue with driving 150mph, or faster if you please. If the only person you are going to hurt is yourself why should anyone else care? E.g. if I decide to do something stupid should I expect a police officer or some other government official to come over every time to ticket me or tell me I am doing something wrong? In my opinion people are overly scared of speed, don't understand it, and people who do understand it and know what they are doing and do it when circumstances allow for it sometimes end up wrongly convicted for "crimes". The fact that this guy could face jail time over this is ludicrous. Frankly, 154mph is not that fast. Should the guy have been doing it - probably not. Was he going to hurt anyone including himself - probably not.

Now given if you try to do 150mph in your 1998 Civic then yes, I would be worried

I see your point to some extent. The issue is that the safety of that choice as it relates to others is subjective and a judgement call on the driver. It is relying on his judgement that it is now a "safe" time to do this. We all know how good the judgement of car nuts is (or how not good it is ). Besides, I would bet he would have encountered another car at some point.

That's the point, I guess, of the law... if everyone was allowed to use his/her judgement in potentially very dangerous activity without any restraint, it would invariably be misused a lot because people, as a general rule, don't always exhibit good judgement.

What I think they should do is what Europe does... have roads without limits and let people choose to use them or not. Therefore, no unsuspecting minivan becomes collateral damage from the poor judgement of another driver.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by MasterC17

This is my personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt, but honestly if there is no one else around I don't see the issue with driving 150mph, or faster if you please. If the only person you are going to hurt is yourself why should anyone else care? E.g. if I decide to do something stupid should I expect a police officer or some other government official to come over every time to ticket me or tell me I am doing something wrong? In my opinion people are overly scared of speed, don't understand it, and people who do understand it and know what they are doing and do it when circumstances allow for it sometimes end up wrongly convicted for "crimes". The fact that this guy could face jail time over this is ludicrous. Frankly, 154mph is not that fast. Should the guy have been doing it - probably not. Was he going to hurt anyone including himself - probably not.

Now given if you try to do 150mph in your 1998 Civic then yes, I would be worried

Originally Posted by gthal

I see your point to some extent. The issue is that the safety of that choice as it relates to others is subjective and a judgement call on the driver. It is relying on his judgement that it is now a "safe" time to do this. We all know how good the judgement of car nuts is (or how not good it is ). Besides, I would bet he would have encountered another car at some point.

That's the point, I guess, of the law... if everyone was allowed to use his/her judgement in potentially very dangerous activity without any restraint, it would invariably be misused a lot because people, as a general rule, don't always exhibit good judgement.

What I think they should do is what Europe does... have roads without limits and let people choose to use them or not. Therefore, no unsuspecting minivan becomes collateral damage from the poor judgement of another driver.

Agree with Gthal.

Also, the other point that people often forget is even if you are by yourself and you crash at 155 mph, somebody has to come along and deal with scraping your goo off the pavement. It doesn't just affect you.

...and you probably have parents or a wife or kids etc. Who have to deal with all that.

People are great at being selfish but.....if you are driving this fast in a place not designed or intended for it, you are affecting other people (even if you are not going to hit them)

As I said above, I cant say I've never gone way over the speed limit (and I'm sure others here say the same) but....we should also be realistic when we say that and not pretend that every time we make that decision we are only affecting ourselves - because we aren't, even if we are the only ones we can see on the road.

[MasterC17]

Originally Posted by gthal

I see your point to some extent. The issue is that the safety of that choice as it relates to others is subjective and a judgement call on the driver. It is relying on his judgement that it is now a "safe" time to do this. We all know how good the judgement of car nuts is (or how not good it is ). Besides, I would bet he would have encountered another car at some point.

That's the point, I guess, of the law... if everyone was allowed to use his/her judgement in potentially very dangerous activity without any restraint, it would invariably be misused a lot because people, as a general rule, don't always exhibit good judgement.

What I think they should do is what Europe does... have roads without limits and let people choose to use them or not. Therefore, no unsuspecting minivan becomes collateral damage from the poor judgement of another driver.

Valid points all around, now how do we get an Autobahn in the United States?

[Bluex]

Originally Posted by MasterC17

Valid points all around, now how do we get an Autobahn in the United States?

My God, not until we get proper driver education, laws that make it illegal to pass using the right lane, or just meander in the left and committed funds to maintaining said road the way Germany does. Giving the Autobahn to American drivers now is suicidal.

We're just not ready.

[MasterC17]

Originally Posted by Bluex

My God, not until we get proper driver education, laws that make it illegal to pass using the right lane, or just meander in the left and committed funds to maintaining said road the way Germany does. Giving the Autobahn to American drivers now is suicidal.

We're just not ready.

True, American drivers are rather terrible haha

[Bluex]

Originally Posted by MasterC17

True, American drivers are rather terrible haha

And I never realized how true this was until I drove on the A-bahn myself recently. I was just amazed at how easy and safe it was to drive fast. People follow the rules, don't pass on the right, weave in and out of traffic, or meander in that left lane. People generally seem FAR more aware of what's going on around them. What I call the "douchebag" driver that is pervasive here, seems far less prevalent there. But honestly, I only had 5 days worth of observation, so that may be unfair to make such a blanket judgement.

But if I didn't see it in 5 days worth of heavy driving, that does say something. I come across a d-bag driver daily here

[JoeFromPA]

I think this is a good time to rehash several relevant facts:

1. Germans don't have de-limited speed zones everywhere. They have them where roads, surroundings, and visibility of those roads are conducive to de-limited speed.

2. In germany and other places with high speed limits, drivers tend to be just fine in terms of other-vehicle-safety....but the damage involved in say, a deer suddenly jumping out in front of you is dramatically magnified. You can't control for this.

3. Normal stopping distance from 55mph is about 220 feet, not 100-120 feet as in controlled testing. This is because it takes about .75 seconds to recognize an unexpected danger and .75 seconds to go from recognition to full brake pressure. Controlled testing eliminates those variables, but it is the reality on the road.

At 150mph, a solid estimate for distance-to-stop would be 1200-1300 feet - or a quarter mile to stop. Again, this includes perception and reaction time to something that requires you stop.

4. Thus, you need at least a quarter mile of good visibility and safety from both other drivers, opposing traffic, and things like animals in order to travel with any degree of safety at 150mph (let's put aside the possibility of a blow-out).

...

I'm not making an argument for or against high-speed driving in public areas. But it's important to understand the real-world discussions around safety at speeds like 150mph and the distances and forces involved at those speeds even for a vehicle like an m3.

I've traveled high speeds on public roads. I've also texted while driving. Texting increases my chances of being in an accident. Speed increases the damage done to myself and others if I'm in an accident. Both increase risk of loss of life or seriousness of injury.

Things to consider

Joe

P.s. I still consider a person yelling on a hands-free cellphone driving a 6000 pound SUV at 85mph and tailgating to be the most dangerous person on the road

[Bowser330]

Originally Posted by Matt_B

That's 154 mph. Assuming Canadian cars have the same electronically limited speed he was running as fast as the car would take him.

Hero status

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by Bluex

. I come across a d-bag driver daily here

....we know...

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by MasterC17

Valid points all around, now how do we get an Autobahn in the United States?

Stop suing each other when you spill coffee in your lap

[Bluex]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

....we know...

Ouch....

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by paddy335

Stop suing each other when you spill coffee in your lap

Interesting that you bring that up. I saw a documentary on that lawsuit I feel badly for that woman, because we have unfairly made her into a laughing stock.

Quick facts
1- That specific McDonald's had been cited in the past for heating their coffee past the approved temperature.

2- The coffee was spilled while she was a passenger in the car.

3- The car had pulled from the window and parked in a space before she spilled it.

4- The coffee caused 3rd degree burns throughout her upper legs and genital area. It required multiple skin grafts to repair and a long rehab.

5- All she wanted was McDonald's to help with the medical bills.

6- There were internal memos that indicated McDonald's wrongdoing.

7- A jury gave her more money than she asked. It was the only way to get the attention of McDonald's, so they would change their operations at the time.

[OneRib]

Normally I complain about drivers here but I actually have a fear that I will be the douchebag driver when I get over to Germany.

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by Bluex

My God, not until we get proper driver education, laws that make it illegal to pass using the right lane, or just meander in the left and committed funds to maintaining said road the way Germany does. Giving the Autobahn to American drivers now is suicidal.

We're just not ready.

We aren't ready, but we could rather quickly (years) create high speed lanes and a special qualification to drive on them. Just like the HOV lanes and you have to have a transponder on your car to use it. Transponder can only be activated by inserting your license and entering a pin. Expenses paid by those who want that license.

[Arcoril]

Originally Posted by OneRib

Normally I complain about drivers here but I actually have a fear that I will be the douchebag driver when I get over to Germany.

The fact that you're worried about it at all means that you're probably not going to be the douchebag. Just keep an eye on your rear view mirror and move right for people!