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      06-04-2013, 06:43 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbolag View Post
If I could afford a R8 GT/V10 Plus, I would buy it regardless of sharing parts with the S4.
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      06-04-2013, 07:17 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by .:R View Post
Mmmhmm i agree except for the fact that most people would pay the extra premiums for these "super cars" "exotics" because well.......they are exotic?
Well, we are talking about an R8. Today's R8 can be had with the same engine you'd find in an RS5 or even an RS4 station wagon. Exotic? I won't debate the definition, but I think we may have different ideas of what it means.

Also consider that a Bentley Continental can be had with this turbo V8 and it costs every bit as much as an R8 V10. Arguably even more exclusive, too, if for just the fact that it is a Bentley.
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      06-04-2013, 07:30 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by drob23 View Post
The Corvette also sells for a base 60k and is certainly a higher volume car than the R8.
Yep, and the six figure one still gets power from a relative of the truck engine.

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I guess my point was that they kept the Corvette in the pipeline at a time when the company was on the verge of financial implosion, the business case they made had to involve more than just projected sales. But this is just my opinion, and I'm just a guy
It costs money to kill a product too, remember. Potentially a lot of money since you always have the investment way out ahead of its return.

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As an interesting side note, I work in active safety, and a big boss from the other side of the pond had a meeting with us lowly research engineers (I work at an OEM) and said that Audi/BMW/Merc can pretty much spend huge amounts of money on research with, as he said, "little concern for business cases" with the main goal of "being the best". I admit this is sort of different, since research can generate other revenue streams (such as licensing IP), but it does highlight that sometimes these German luxury brands are willing to take a slight hit on a niche product (relative to mass production 101) if it means that they can be the "best" in consumers eyes.
People talk. It's just that - words. Successful businesses don't throw away money. R&D is still budgeted just like every other expenditure, but no, you don't need a business case to justify setting that money aside. That's just the price of innovation. When it comes time to plan a product, that's where you drive revenue, because consumers aren't going to pay you for thinking and tinkering.
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      06-06-2013, 08:51 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbolag
Quote:
Originally Posted by drob23 View Post
The Corvette also sells for a base 60k and is certainly a higher volume car than the R8. I guess my point was that they kept the Corvette in the pipeline at a time when the company was on the verge of financial implosion, the business case they made had to involve more than just projected sales. But this is just my opinion, and I'm just a guy

The R8 does share a lot with the entire Audi line-up besides the engine...aside from some packaging issues, everything from the DCT to the crown center differential to the rear active sports diff is shared with the relatively pedestrian S4. I just think for a car like this to sell for 120-200k, it needs to have that "special V10 sound/performance" that some rich dude is going to need to justify the exclusivity. I don't think this rich guy is going to care about torque or dyno figures, but rather how loud and visceral the engine is when he revs it out to red-line. But it does seem like FI technologies are good enough to make a TTV8 > V10 performance wise.

As an interesting side note, I work in active safety, and a big boss from the other side of the pond had a meeting with us lowly research engineers (I work at an OEM) and said that Audi/BMW/Merc can pretty much spend huge amounts of money on research with, as he said, "little concern for business cases" with the main goal of "being the best". I admit this is sort of different, since research can generate other revenue streams (such as licensing IP), but it does highlight that sometimes these German luxury brands are willing to take a slight hit on a niche product (relative to mass production 101) if it means that they can be the "best" in consumers eyes.
If I could afford a R8 GT/V10 Plus, I would buy it regardless of sharing parts with the S4.
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      06-07-2013, 06:22 AM   #71
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LOL @ those thinking R8 shares more parts with S4 than M3 with 335i.
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      06-09-2013, 01:53 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Well, we are talking about an R8. Today's R8 can be had with the same engine you'd find in an RS5 or even an RS4 station wagon. Exotic? I won't debate the definition, but I think we may have different ideas of what it means.

Also consider that a Bentley Continental can be had with this turbo V8 and it costs every bit as much as an R8 V10. Arguably even more exclusive, too, if for just the fact that it is a Bentley.
It's not the same engine.
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      06-09-2013, 05:31 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by buildbright View Post
It's not the same engine.
It's a member of the same family sharing the same architecture, using the same bore and stroke, the same type of aspiration, having roughly the same shape and size power and torque curve. In fact, the R8 V8 actually makes less peak power than the RS4 and RS5. So the fact that it isn't the exact same engine is entirely immaterial from both a performance and marketing point of view. A Corvette doesn't use the exact same engine as a Silverado either, but the familial link between the two is well known. Same applies here.
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      06-09-2013, 12:17 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
It's a member of the same family sharing the same architecture, using the same bore and stroke, the same type of aspiration, having roughly the same shape and size power and torque curve. In fact, the R8 V8 actually makes less peak power than the RS4 and RS5. So the fact that it isn't the exact same engine is entirely immaterial from both a performance and marketing point of view. A Corvette doesn't use the exact same engine as a Silverado either, but the familial link between the two is well known. Same applies here.
Incorrect.

"Stephan Reil, the head of development at Quattro, is quick to correct us when we wrongly assume that the RS5’s engine is the same as the one installed in Audi’s supercar. The RS5’s V-8 shares little or nothing with [that] engine. It is more powerful than the R8’s V-8 by virtue of the lessons learned from the 5.2-liter V-10."

Same goes for almost everything you mentioned. The new S Tronic is a completely different. If you drove the S4, S5, and R8 you would see there is very little in common.


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Originally Posted by Levi View Post
LOL @ those thinking R8 shares more parts with S4 than M3 with 335i.
I agree a lot of miss information here.
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      06-11-2013, 06:17 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buildbright View Post
Incorrect.

"Stephan Reil, the head of development at Quattro, is quick to correct us when we wrongly assume that the RS5’s engine is the same as the one installed in Audi’s supercar. The RS5’s V-8 shares little or nothing with [that] engine. It is more powerful than the R8’s V-8 by virtue of the lessons learned from the 5.2-liter V-10."
Please read carefully. Absolutely nothing I said in the post of mine you've quoted contradicts what the Audi official said. I've seen that quote before and am aware the two engines are not literally the same (I should have chosen my words more carefully in my earlier post). They are, however, evolutions of the same family. Bore center, deck height, bore and stroke are the same. No one would design an under square high revving engine if given a clean slate.

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Same goes for almost everything you mentioned.
You've completely lost me. Everything? Ever?

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The new S Tronic is a completely different. If you drove the S4, S5, and R8 you would see there is very little in common.
Great. Can you tell me why you thought I said anything to contradict this?
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      06-11-2013, 09:49 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buildbright View Post


I agree a lot of miss information here.
A lot of misspelling too.

Mkoesel is correct that the engines are closely related. Remember, your source may be the head of development but he's also aware of his marketing duties. Evolution not revolution, and that's not necessarily a disparagement.

And I would not discount just how drastically different an M3 (both atop and under the skin) is compared a regular series car like the 335. It's not just an engine and springs job.
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      06-11-2013, 01:05 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Please read carefully. Absolutely nothing I said in the post of mine you've quoted contradicts what the Audi official said. I've seen that quote before and am aware the two engines are not literally the same (I should have chosen my words more carefully in my earlier post). They are, however, evolutions of the same family. Bore center, deck height, bore and stroke are the same. No one would design an under square high revving engine if given a clean slate.



You've completely lost me. Everything? Ever?



Great. Can you tell me why you thought I said anything to contradict this?
No not you. The last line was meant for another user who said the center diff and DCT are the same. I forgot to add a quote.

I was only speaking about the 4.2 V8 in question. I actually think you are one the most informed users on here.
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      06-11-2013, 03:29 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buildbright View Post
No not you. The last line was meant for another user who said the center diff and DCT are the same. I forgot to add a quote.

I was only speaking about the 4.2 V8 in question. I actually think you are one the most informed users on here.
Sorry, it was probably me responsible for the misinformation. Care to direct me towards info on the R8 drivetrain? All I've found is that previously it used a viscous coupling center diff. I was assuming the facelifted version used a variation of the crown center diff and active sports diff. But I suppose the mid engine packaging might dictate a rear transaxle. I understand that the packaging/implementation is different, however, it seems like the technology is the same - in terms of suppliers borgwarner and magna (I think Magna provides the sports diff).

Likewise for the S-Tronic DSG. I know GIAC has been able to tune the DL501 to be much more responsive, with release info here and a user review here, so some of the differences in "shift feel" could be from TCM tuning. The DL700 series (which I presume is in the R8) to my knowledge has greater torque handling capability, however is still based on a similar to design to the DL501.
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      06-11-2013, 04:27 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drob23 View Post
Sorry, it was probably me responsible for the misinformation. Care to direct me towards info on the R8 drivetrain? All I've found is that previously it used a viscous coupling center diff. I was assuming the facelifted version used a variation of the crown center diff and active sports diff. But I suppose the mid engine packaging might dictate a rear transaxle. I understand that the packaging/implementation is different, however, it seems like the technology is the same - in terms of suppliers borgwarner and magna (I think Magna provides the sports diff).

Likewise for the S-Tronic DSG. I know GIAC has been able to tune the DL501 to be much more responsive, with release info here and a user review here, so some of the differences in "shift feel" could be from TCM tuning. The DL700 series (which I presume is in the R8) to my knowledge has greater torque handling capability, however is still based on a similar to design to the DL501.
The R8 uses a VW 4WD system. You are correct about the use of the Viscous Diff. But it is different then the new Center Crown on the S4, S5. The R8 is has more RWD biased. The split is 15/85% with a max of 30% upfront. As far as the transmission the Midengine makes using the same DCT impossible.

I want the B9 to have R8 character. Sliding a S4 or S5 would be great fun.
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