6MT or DCT?

[Projectile]

Originally Posted by VCP

You think wrong. I still have 2 DCT E92's, one with 700hp and have driven many 6sp E92's. The DCT is very suited for the high revving S65. It's a bit of a different story with the S55. I went through this thought process over a year ago before going to Welt and getting my M4 in June. I opted for 6spd as the engine has many different characters to it. You can be a gear too tall and it really is not relevant due to the huge TQ. The S65 does not work this way. I know that if you are on a track and ultimately fast lap times are key than DCT will suit, but if street driving is primary I would not opt DCT over 6spd in the M4. I've had a year now to give this a honest effort and I stand behind my 6spd in the S55 platform, again if street enjoyment is your primary. It is the best BMW manual trans I have driven.

I can find much to agree with in this post. The DCT made more sense for the S65 and the MT makes more sense for the S55. Having said that, I still really enjoy the MT in my e92 and, in fact, chose it after having had a DCT e92 for 3 years.

Nobody needs to convince me of the fun and engagement of a MT with an S55 or any other engine, really. It's the rev matching feature that is required in all but Sport+ mode in the MT offered in the F8X's that concerns me.

If one could deactivate the rev match at whatever throttle map, I'd have no issue with this MT. But as it is, BMW forces one to use a different throttle map than one is used to just to deactivate rev matching. Not only that, but one must use the most sensitive throttle map just to do one's own rev matching.

If I end up driving out of Sport+ most of the time, why not get a DCT? In both situations, the computer does the fun/tricky part. What difference does it make if you flip a paddle or push a clutch and gear lever? Very little as far as I can see (nostalgia aside...)

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Projectile

What difference does it make if you flip a paddle or push a clutch and gear lever? Very little as far as I can see (nostalgia aside...)

No one is going to convince you that you are wrong. It is your opinion, even if it is wrong, and 4 pages of thread have not accomplished anything

[huatian]

Originally Posted by Projectile

"Because it's more engaging or fun" - right?

But if the 6MT in the M4 rev matches for you, then what you call "engaging" is just going through the motions, and what you call "fun" is, embarrassingly, just posing. I suppose you still have to launch the car, but that's a small fraction of the engagement and fun of driving a MT.

Sure, you can turn the rev matching off, but from what I've read in other threads around here, you can't do so without also accepting a throttle map that is hyper sensitive. I bet that most people rarely use this feature.

If BMW had made it possible to turn rev matching off/on no strings attached, then this could be a real 6 MT, but otherwise, it seems like a glorified automatic, and the DCT makes much more sense. The only motion you have to go through is pulling a paddle which'll be much faster.

I'm not a troll. This is really where I'm at in my thinking about the M4 transmission. I had a DCT e92 and I traded it out for one with a 6MT because I wanted a more engaging and fun car. But when contemplating what M4 to get, I think I might get the DCT. Or just stick with my e92.

Do a money shift and I'm sure you'll agree it's no automatic.

[Jim B]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

No one is going to convince you that you are wrong. It is your opinion, even if it is wrong, and 4 pages of thread have not accomplished anything

I've been driving manuals transmissions for 46 years!! I don't need an automatic, DCT, CVT, or slushbox. I like to be involved with my driving. If a manual is not available on a car, I'm looking at, it's a deal killer for me. It doesn't hurt that I saved $2900 on my M4 by going with the 6MT.

[Wei718]

For me, I got the manual so my wife can't drive it!

[golovko]

Originally Posted by Jim B

I've been driving manuals transmissions for 46 years!! I don't need an automatic, DCT, CVT, or slushbox. I like to be involved with my driving. If a manual is not available on a car, I'm looking at, it's a deal killer for me. It doesn't hurt that I saved $2900 on my M4 by going with the 6MT.

One of the things that brought me to consider an M3 after I had started looking at a 535i. No manual option

Originally Posted by Wei718

For me, I got the manual so my wife can't drive it!

haha, one of my reasons too. Although I had insisted on getting the paddle shifters in her X3 so that I could drive it.

[RingMeister01]

The ratios on the 6MT are better.

[derpimpkar]

What if you bought a DCT because you want to drive it around on D1?

I'm also going to drill the front bumper for the European license plate frame.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by Jim B

I've been driving manuals transmissions for 46 years!! I don't need an automatic, DCT, CVT, or slushbox. I like to be involved with my driving. If a manual is not available on a car, I'm looking at, it's a deal killer for me. It doesn't hurt that I saved $2900 on my M4 by going with the 6MT.

You better hope you learn public transport in the next few years as every car will be offered as some form of automatic be it tq convertor or dct.
People tend to resist change and like things to stay the same as familiarity is comfortable, but you can't argue objectively that dct is not superior to a traditional manual in every way .
Subjectively you can state that a manual is more involved driving , better feel, nostalgia, ease of maintenance, but that is all preference and will differ among drivers and needs.
As CAFE standards continue to rise and more consumers want more Tech in their luxury and performance cars , the replacement of MT with DCT completely will be a matter of time in the next few years.

[///M///]

Originally Posted by FC4

Of all the threads you post in and subsequently ruin, you make one normal post in this one then leave? C'mon now...start talking about the color of your dog's poop or your usual inane banter to round up all the simple ones and fade this thread to nothingness.

Thanks.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

you can't argue objectively that dct is not superior to a traditional manual in every way .
Subjectively you can state that a manual is more involved driving , better feel, nostalgia, ease of maintenance, but that is all preference and will differ among drivers and needs.

No one on here has argued that the 6MT is better and all have agreed that it is indeed a preference. It is a preference that I have and it does not make me some kind of neanderthal that is unwilling to accept change. BMW offers a choice.

[Falafel Combo]

Picking up my glorified automatic M3 tomorrow! Wo-hoooo! Weeee! Can't wait to join the ranks of the poser 6MT owners! It will be glorious!!! Zapa-dee-daaaa!!


PS: does anyone have a link to that thread about posers driving around in cars equipped with on board navigation systems?

[Falafel Combo]

PS: very generous of everyone here to entertain this fellow so far. Either that or ... Oh wait, it's sunday. Ok.

[paddy335]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

This thread is dumtarded. It's like trying to convince someone why blue is your favourite color.....and why it's "better" than red......

After reading the trolls op and subsequent posts and then all the futile attempts by respected (and other ) members to reason or debate with it, it made me wish I could officially 'Appreciate' your post more than once.

[Doctor///M]

"glorified automatic"

Stick with theE92 OP.

[Racer20]

Originally Posted by Projectile

"Because it's more engaging or fun" - right?

But if the 6MT in the M4 rev matches for you, then what you call "engaging" is just going through the motions, and what you call "fun" is, embarrassingly, just posing. I suppose you still have to launch the car, but that's a small fraction of the engagement and fun of driving a MT.

Sure, you can turn the rev matching off, but from what I've read in other threads around here, you can't do so without also accepting a throttle map that is hyper sensitive. I bet that most people rarely use this feature.

If BMW had made it possible to turn rev matching off/on no strings attached, then this could be a real 6 MT, but otherwise, it seems like a glorified automatic, and the DCT makes much more sense. The only motion you have to go through is pulling a paddle which'll be much faster.

I'm not a troll. This is really where I'm at in my thinking about the M4 transmission. I had a DCT e92 and I traded it out for one with a 6MT because I wanted a more engaging and fun car. But when contemplating what M4 to get, I think I might get the DCT. Or just stick with my e92.

The rev matching feature is actually pretty nice. There nothing poser about it. Either you can't heel/toe or you can. This car won't change that, but it will allow you downshift smoother anyway.

The 6MT is fantastic in this car. Get the DCT if you want, but don't just do it because you think this 6MT is no good.

[GarlicBun]

Originally Posted by Projectile

"Because it's more engaging or fun" - right?

But if the 6MT in the M4 rev matches for you, then what you call "engaging" is just going through the motions, and what you call "fun" is, embarrassingly, just posing. I suppose you still have to launch the car, but that's a small fraction of the engagement and fun of driving a MT.

Sure, you can turn the rev matching off, but from what I've read in other threads around here, you can't do so without also accepting a throttle map that is hyper sensitive. I bet that most people rarely use this feature.

If BMW had made it possible to turn rev matching off/on no strings attached, then this could be a real 6 MT, but otherwise, it seems like a glorified automatic, and the DCT makes much more sense. The only motion you have to go through is pulling a paddle which'll be much faster.

I'm not a troll. This is really where I'm at in my thinking about the M4 transmission. I had a DCT e92 and I traded it out for one with a 6MT because I wanted a more engaging and fun car. But when contemplating what M4 to get, I think I might get the DCT. Or just stick with my e92.

Can't believe its already 5 pages...
IMO....
i love the clutch with rev match, so nice
i love that i save $2900
i love the shift knob in leather better

so just stopping being a troll even though you already became one....

[rubber_ducky]

I don't understand the purpose of this thread (other than trolling). If the only enjoyment that you get from driving an MT comes from rev matching, and the F8x cars take that away from you, what do you think this thread is going to do for you? Get a DCT and move on. Do you think that the responses written here will magically make using a clutch pedal and a gated shift lever while not rev matching fun for you?

Well before my now wife became my wife, she went to a dealership and bought herself a MT car. She loves rowing her own. Sometime after her and i met, i picked up an MT e92 335i. I taught her about rev matching and H/T. She knew nothing about them. In other words, get ignorance toward rev matching and H/T had no impact on the enjoyment that came from having an MT.

Go buy yourself a DCT car for whatever reasons float your boat. And if you feel compelled to share those reasons, just post in one of the thousands of 6MT/DCT that already exist. Then try to accept the fact that people like my wife buy MT cars for reasons that don't 100% mirror your own.

[DandyKing]

Originally Posted by ChicagoM4

I am beginning to doubt your ability to actually drive a manual, in all seriousness. If pushing the clutch in, changing gears, determining the appropriate throttle and letting the clutch out (whether rev matching or not) requires no skill, then why do so many people not know how to drive a manual correctly vs. an automatic/dct? Rev matching is just one 'going through the motions' skill which is really only mandatory on the track or braking abruptly.

You sir are, indeed, a troll. You know perfectly well you are perpetuating unfounded thoughts against the common well-established knowledge/experience of the collective thought which is the definition of a troll. Please stay out of manual cars.

[Colinv6]

Crazy how times change, you guys over the pond have always been known for driving mainly Auto cars, and yet it seems now that everyone on here wants 6MT, over here I'd say that 90% or even higher of M3/4 are DCT, any cars sitting in dealers with 6MT just sit there, prices getting slashed weekly because nobody wants them over here.

[oldkingdom]

Originally Posted by HokieM4

I have a DCT M4 and I think it's amazing on the track and in rush hour traffic. It's the in between the two where the manual can be more fun. I think most people that get the manual enjoy going through the motions and that's what makes them feel more engaged. Simply just a preference; nothing poser about it IMO.

Same boat. I miss it a LOT in between... But only in between.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

This thread is dumtarded. It's like trying to convince someone why blue is your favourite color.....and why it's "better" than red......

Dumtarded! Love it!

"But, but ... DUDE! Don't you get it? They don't make red like they used to ..."