F80 vs. 991.2S, 991.1 GT3 RS and McLaren 570GT

[adc]

if you expect some story about a highway run in Mexico, or a straight comparison between these cars you will be disappointed. These are just my impressions, I could be totally off but I am nevertheless very firm about them.

Thanks to a good friend, I have had a chance to drive these cars over a short period of time, each one back to back with my own F80 just as a reality check.

Vs 991.2 C2S Cab, stick
I'm sure the Coupe would be even more so, but here goes the Cab. It had the OEM short shifter installed so no idea how the stock item is, but this was amazing: tight, and with a very well defined snickety-feel. I don't know if it allows you to shift faster actually, but boy does it feel great. The whole 911 cabin is tighter, more intimate, more cockpit-like. The 14-way seats are worse compared to M3 seats. The suspension feels better resolved, by which I mean the CG is obviously lower and the quality of the high-frequency damping much better - many impacts feel less harsh than in the M3. But, there is far less suspension travel so other types of bumps will upset the Porsche. The first time I drove this car months ago it felt as fast as my M3, frankly I wasn't impressed. Meanwhile the dealer discovered some type of boost leak and fixed it, so last time I drove it it felt like a step up in performance for sure - not a huge one but a measurable one. The traction on OEM summers was very very good, especially compared to my M3 which had been switched to winters at that point. But I could definitely feel the extra traction at the rear. I didn't think the steering feel was better (my M3 has camber plates and is well aligned) but the steering effort is better judged, and Porsche is right to not offer any variability there. Overall, the whole car feels more of a piece and more purposeful, more mechanical and you feel more in control.

The extra sweet feeling the car gives you over an M3 is worth about $50k USD at today's prices .


Vs. 991.1 GT3 RS
Well, what can I say? They took the 911's essence, then distilled it to ultimate purity and intensified it for this car. Mechanical, responsive, raw, soulful, it just sucks you in and doesn't let go. An unending adrenaline rush, and I just don't know how I could keep my license if I had one. How much faster it is or isn't compared to an M3 is irrelevant, because it's a completely different car with a different mission in life and it executes that role perfectly. I didn't really dare try the limits, because they are very high and I cannot buy my friend a replacement car were the unthinkable to happen. Spellbinding, an amazing car and a thoroughbred through and through.


Vs. McLaren 570GT
This car is very interesting. It looks absolutely amazing to my eyes, and the driving experience is like nothing else I've experienced. The cockpit is lovely and intimate, very architectural in form and very modern and clean. You can tell that McLaren hasn't been doing this for long because the minor controls and the overall operating logic aren't quite there. But you know what, it is still a special car and you feel that way from the moment you drop in the seat. The steering is better than Porsche or M3, significantly more feelsome. The brakes had a weird little dead spot but then I'll wait until the car is fully broken in to comment. The gas pedal is very linear and has a very long travel, which makes metering the power very intuitive. Sounds obvious really, but it makes you realize how jumpy the gas action is in most other performance cars (tuned in a non-linear fashion to feel "sporty"). The view through the low windshield is incredible (remember the first time you saw a true HD broadcast?), and you are aware of where the front corners are so it's easy to place it. The car is, and feels, light - turn in is very immediate and intuitive. The suspension is a revelation - easily absorbs the small nasty bumps and let's the car breathe in and out with the road - but isn't floaty at all, you can always tell what the car is doing. It's uncanny. The way the whole thing feels is uncanny. It felt like being strapped into an X-Wing fighter and just hovering up the road at incredible speed. I know it sounds geeky and my explanation feels totally inadequate, but the car is mesmerizing to drive. I could have driven it for days...

What an achievement from McLaren. Porsche has been around a long time, has had time to perfect their stuff and each generation progress has been incremental. McLaren on the other hand jumped out from nowhere, and in a few short years has been able to produce a true contender, something that has its own voice and character. A "me-too" Ferrari or Lambo would have failed spectacularly. But their cars are the real deal, bonafide, grade-A item.

Hopefully I'll do another drive after the break-in is complete. I can't wait.


So where does that leave the M3? Jumping back into it after each turn, I never felt short-changed. Yes you can tell where money was saved and where certain feel decisions were taken, but it doesn't make it a poor choice. Maybe a poor man's choice more like it , and not even then. The M3's cabin is more spacious and comfortable, because it is based on a family sedan. When you want a tight cockpit to shrink around you, this won't do - but when you carry 4 teenagers to a game practice then it works perfectly. The M3 was engineered to be more "playful", brutal and boisterous, and you can tell this by how the suspension, throttle action and steering have been calibrated. It bucks a little bit more like a bronco, where the Porsches are all steely-eyed and measured response and the McLaren descends from another planet to show us a different way to do things.

Pick one money no object? I think I'd take the GT3 RS and track the living daylights with it. If money was an object but I had more of it than I do, I'd get a 991.2 GTS stick or a 991.2 GT3 stick. As it stands, it's very hard for me to fault my buying decision.

[nicknaz]

Nice write up and thanks for sharing. Super rich friends who share their toys are awesome

Too bad there is no z4m 2 seater with S55 and full coilovers from the factory, right?

Btw, I agree with your pick of the 991.1RS but before you commit you should look into the 996cup or 997cup cars + a tow vehicle. I've been told the 6cup is faster by a few seconds than the 991RS on Hoosiers and is about mid $50k to purchase. Nothing like a factory race car, I guess.

[KevinM]

Sounds like fun! I almost bought a 997.1 GT3 a few years ago after a test drive. It was unlike anything else I had driven. I wish I had because now they are even more expensive. Actually that is not true, because I realized it would not be able to be what I needed - a low-worry DD to keep miles off my M5 and Z4M coupe. But still...

[adc]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Nice write up and thanks for sharing. Super rich friends who share their toys are awesome

Too bad there is no z4m 2 seater with S55 and full coilovers from the factory, right?

Btw, I agree with your pick of the 991.1RS but before you commit you should look into the 996cup or 997cup cars + a tow vehicle. I've been told the 6cup is faster by a few seconds than the 991RS on Hoosiers and is about mid $50k to purchase. Nothing like a factory race car, I guess.

Yes agreed, it’s nice to have enthusiast friends with means.

Of course, a race car will be ultimate on track.

However the beauty of the RS is that you can, and should, drive it to the track. Rain or shine. And then, have a ball on track, rain or shine. And then you drive it back home. I can see the appeal of a car like that, perfectly set up from the factory to be the ultimate street/track toy. My friend just jumps in it and goes with me to the track. He is chilling with a coffee or something while I do brakes, tires etc. Neither he nor I would have patience with a truck, trailer and all that stuff right now. I also think that a race car needs a lot more maintenance in between, whereas the RS gets driven occasionally every other weekend so it stays charged and lubricated.

And BTW the Dunlop’s Maxx Race on his car are getting incredibly good wear on track.

[adc]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Sounds like fun! I almost bought a 997.1 GT3 a few years ago after a test drive. It was unlike anything else I had driven. I wish I had because now they are even more expensive. Actually that is not true, because I realized it would not be able to be what I needed - a low-worry DD to keep miles off my M5 and Z4M coupe. But still...

I think the key is to just drive the darn thing once you buy it, without worrying about the resale value. Simply assume it has none.

Hard to do I know...

[dkhm3]

nice write up. hope to one day get a 911 gts, rwd of course.

I want to know what a 991.2 gts with rear wheel steering feels like.

[adc]

Originally Posted by dkhm3

nice write up. hope to one day get a 911 gts, rwd of course.

I want to know what a 991.2 gts with rear wheel steering feels like.

The 911s I drove had it. I can’t say I realized when it was working so it was very transparent. The car rotated well, but I have no other recent frame of reference with a standard 911.

A gent with a GT3 at Pittrace told me that apparently it may interfere with running slicks, I don’t know how true it is. I’d ask over at Rennlist if slicks are a consideration.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by adc

Yes agreed, it’s nice to have enthusiast friends with means.

Of course, a race car will be ultimate on track.

However the beauty of the RS is that you can, and should, drive it to the track. Rain or shine. And then, have a ball on track, rain or shine. And then you drive it back home. I can see the appeal of a car like that, perfectly set up from the factory to be the ultimate street/track toy. My friend just jumps in it and goes with me to the track. He is chilling with a coffee or something while I do brakes, tires etc. Neither he nor I would have patience with a truck, trailer and all that stuff right now. I also think that a race car needs a lot more maintenance in between, whereas the RS gets driven occasionally every other weekend so it stays charged and lubricated.

And BTW the Dunlop’s Maxx Race on his car are getting incredibly good wear on track.

Yes, it's nice drive the fancy new cars, but kind of interesting that a $180k RS is slower than a 10-15yrs old $55k Cup.

It's a lot of extra cash to be able to drive it home vs trailering.

So, how close is your f80 to his RS when you both track?

[adc]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Yes, it's nice drive the fancy new cars, but kind of interesting that a $180k RS is slower than a 10-15yrs old $55k Cup.

It's a lot of extra cash to be able to drive it home vs trailering.

So, how close is your f80 to his RS when you both track?

It’s not just about the laptime. I could afford a dedicated track/racecar but I don’t want to deal with the hassle. You can’t just bring it home and park it wet, then use again in 2 months. And neither of us have convenient storage for trucks, trailers etc. due to where we live.

At this point it’s more of a matter of confidence and experience. He’s learning the car and the balance. He gets much more traction out of the slow corners for sure and slowly walks away on the straights. And there are some tight technical sections where you wait for the M to settle and then coax it into the next one whereas he is just flat out, wham bam as you please. I expect him to lap faster than me next season.

Another interesting tidbit - he just switched to iron rotors, as they are adequate on track and don’t cost such a ridiculous amount of money to replace.

[nicknaz]

I hear you on the hassle of the tow only car.

My SM is plated and registered so I can drive to track. I'm trying to defer the tow vehicle as long as possible myself.

It's really liberating having less $ at stake and full safety gear though....

Edit: what about the Mac vs your f80 when you track? Or is that street only for him

[FriskyDingo]

I picked up a 991.1 GT3 RS that our dealer took in on trade from the client's house 2 weeks ago.

I agree with everything you said. An utterly enthralling machine. Even in 30 degree temps, I had the windows down the whole way to listen to that incredible noise. The engine is just spectacular. Best car I've ever driven.

[adc]

Originally Posted by FriskyDingo

I picked up a 991.1 GT3 RS that our dealer took in on trade from the client's house 2 weeks ago.

I agree with everything you said. An utterly enthralling machine. Even in 30 degree temps, I had the windows down the whole way to listen to that incredible noise. The engine is just spectacular. Best car I've ever driven.

Enjoy! I don't know how you could ever be disappointed with this car...

[fusionchicken]

Sheesh, that was one hell of a write-up, I enjoyed it more than most automotive magazine articles I've come across

[adc]

Originally Posted by fusionchicken

Sheesh, that was one hell of a write-up, I enjoyed it more than most automotive magazine articles I've come across

Thanks, appreciate the compliment!

It was such a lucky break and privilege to be able to drive these cars, and others. I simply wanted to share my joy of driving them with this crowd...

[uniqueMR]

My next car, 911 GT3

[torment]

After driving a Huracan, 488 Spider, and 650S McLaren...I can definitely sympathize the feelings you felt for the McLaren. The 650S was very wild at full tilt and sounded amazing. It felt like it needed more tire (or better tires than the PZero) and traction control. Haven't had too many cars spin the tires that hard at 70mph My F80 was definitely worth the money but very different league...

Drove a 2015 GT3 and 2018 C2S and loved those...definitely the cockpit feel. GT3 was too rough for me in this city but it sounded amazing and thankfully got to drive another one on the track. C2S felt very well put together and the PDK was much smoother than in my F80. Lots more traction available too but wasn't worth the extra money to me (52K more).

[adc]

Originally Posted by torment

After driving a Huracan, 488 Spider, and 650S McLaren...I can definitely sympathize the feelings you felt for the McLaren. The 650S was very wild at full tilt and sounded amazing. It felt like it needed more tire (or better tires than the PZero) and traction control. Haven't had too many cars spin the tires that hard at 70mph My F80 was definitely worth the money but very different league...

Drove a 2015 GT3 and 2018 C2S and loved those...definitely the cockpit feel. GT3 was too rough for me in this city but it sounded amazing and thankfully got to drive another one on the track. C2S felt very well put together and the PDK was much smoother than in my F80. Lots more traction available too but wasn't worth the extra money to me (52K more).

So how would you say the 488 felt compared to the rest?

[torment]

Originally Posted by adc

So how would you say the 488 felt compared to the rest?

It was better! It had better traction (Michelin Supersports) and would hang with the 650S from a roll. They were very evenly matched but it would pull 1.5 cars from a dead stop and stay there until like 130. I liked the raw V8 sound from the McLaren better but it didn't sound bad. More comfortable seats and easier to live with day to day. Its the one I'd buy.