Car & Driver Long-Term M3

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

I'm biased, CA. I'm coming from Lexuses and Mazdas. So I'm coming from cars built for comfort and compliance. Even my heavily modded Lexus GS, lowered on coils, with 20" rims, it rides better than my M.

And it's wayyyy smoother.

And my previous Mazda 6 (a manual, by the way ), it was lowered and still rode smoother than my M.

Again, I'm not complaining, because I knew what the M was before I bought it. And I knew how I would use it. So, for me and my wishes, it works well.

But I never thought of this car as being a true GT. I test drove a few Porsches, and even they rode better than the M....just more compliant overall.

No way could I ever say, given my previous car experience, that the M4 was a comfortable GT. Now, I can hack it, because I can accept a lot of punishment...but I wouldn't recommend it to someone who wants a true GT and will never track or drive their car really hard. And I mean REALLY hard. If you're not driving the M really hard occasionally, then it's not worth all the money....I'd recommend other GTs better equipped at occasional, intoxicating 0 to 60 sprints or back road jaunts.

Oh, and by the way, Hyundais and Kias don't have compliant suspensions either...that's the one significant difference between the Korean cars and the Japanese. Now if you were in a Honda Civic or a Mazda 3, then you'd find a significant difference between the ride quality of the M and the small, Japanese cars.

Do you have the adaptive suspension?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by gprgeorge

It's a freaking M3 for god sake! They don't like it, drive a buick for 401k miles. I love my M3. I know what I was getting. If you want floaty comfort ride don't buy this car.��

Yeeeaaahhhh ... in the past "but it's an M3!" might of meant something, but it doesn't (and shouldn't) anymore: F8xs are not spec racers and by heritage they're meant to be daily drivers that can be tracked vs the opposite. With all the tech and shit these days there really isn't any excuse. (personally I don't give a shit, but then I just leave it on comfort always).

I think it's pretty obvious BMW made a slight mistake in hearing the ZCP reviews: they're softer than non-ZCP!

Example (~2:10):

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Do you have the adaptive suspension?

I had the adaptive suspension, and "comfort" wasn't all that comfortable to me. It was better than Sport and wayyy better than Sport +, but BMW comfort is like other manufacturer's 'firm'....which I like. Because on the track, this thing is a true beast.

Again, not complaining, I knew what I was getting...and yes, I'm biased, because Lexus and Mazda can make some cream puff suspensions, so I know the comparison is more dramatic to me than most.

The M4 is simply not a true GT to me, because it's just too loud, rough and raw.....but that's the reason why I bought it.

[Ian1973]

Originally Posted by jpdchicago

F80 is way more comfortable than my prior M, an e46 vert. Also love the performance and sound with MPE. I use comfort, sport steering and sport + (6MT).

Exactly, I also owned an E46 M3 vert, and the F80 is so much better.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by ItIsChrisM

Print is dying. Most Car and Driver "writers" won't have a job in a few years and are struggling just to make 5 figures. Let them hate on the M4 and choose a Mustang or Camaro. No skin off my back. Haters gonna hate.

Clearly it is, so you should just own that.

[Flacht3]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Clearly it is, so you should just own that.

I blame it on 4th of July drinks. I'll simmer down.I just hate articles that paint the M4 as being too much of a "race car" when IMO that's half the appeal

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by ItIsChrisM

I blame it on 4th of July drinks. I'll simmer down.I just hate articles that paint the M4 as being too much of a "race car" when IMO that's half the appeal

The M4 is not a "race car". It is a high performance luxury sport coupe and IMO a GT car.

The M4s that are raced are very different from the ones that are driven on the street.
http://www.rssportscars.com/photos/c...01-front-m.jpg

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

The M4 is far from being a "race car". It is a high performance luxury sport coupe and IMO a GT car.

The M4s that are raced are very different from the ones that are driven on the street.

Hence the C&D long term review's summary....which I agree with:

The new M is a great race car on a track and in the twisties...exhilarating, fun, tossable and downright juvenile at times with so much torque.

But as a high performance luxury sport coupe, a "GT", it's not all that great, not to me. It's passable, mind you, it will pass as a Grand Tourer when it has to....but it's strength is when you're testing its limits, not when meandering down the road at sane speeds.

[dzvero]

Author is chevy malibu owner, what do you expect?

[bmw0perat0r]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Frankly I am surprised at the complaints about the harshness of the M4 suspension and I am not someone who believes that a "real sports car" should have a suspension that shakes the fillings out of your teeth. I was one of the most vocal posters on BMW forums criticizing the harsh ride on my 2007 335i with RFTs and Sport Suspension. I thought that was the most poorly sorted out suspension in any car I ever owned.

I have residences in Manhattan and in the Northwest Corner of Connecticut and do a lot of driving on NYC area roads which are not in great condition. On my 335i I destroyed 7 tires and bent 5 rims and this was after I got rid of the RFTs. When I posted my concerns I usually received posts stating that I did not understand what a sports car was, that I should "Get a Lexus", etc. I eventually installed Koni FSD shocks and did not have further issues.

I have no issues with the harshness of the suspension on my 2015 M4 with adaptive suspension. I have not had a single "Pothole Explosion" and I find the ride to be firm but not harsh or uncomfortable. Given my environment there is no way I would have bought an M4 without adaptive suspension.

Ironically when I was shopping for the 335 in 2007 Car and Driver praised the suspension.

I had a similar experience with my 2007 335xi - fortunately, I did not experience flat tires and bent rims, but I did experience the 'pothole explosion'. What a terrible feeling and noise that was, and it really did feel like an explosion. It was horrible.

The M4 really benefits from the adaptive suspension and I'm glad I ticked that box. Comfort mode is relatively tolerable in and around Washington DC. And I think Sport or Sport+ is fine on the backroads of NoVA and MD. I don't know what all the complaining is about. I've experienced worse; TCKline Raceline Coilver with stiff spring rates on an e36 M3.

I really don't know why the M4 is receiving the criticism that it does - I think its a brilliant car. The only complaint I'd have is that its not a Porsche Cayman GT4 or a McLaren - but thats my fault, not the M4s'.

[Sassicaia]

These guys are being over dramatic in their reviews in order to justify their pay checks. After driving the F80 for a good amount of time I can clear say they are way over exaggerating to the point of making things up.

[trey100]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

I had the adaptive suspension, and "comfort" wasn't all that comfortable to me. It was better than Sport and wayyy better than Sport +, but BMW comfort is like other manufacturer's 'firm'....which I like. Because on the track, this thing is a true beast.

Again, not complaining, I knew what I was getting...and yes, I'm biased, because Lexus and Mazda can make some cream puff suspensions, so I know the comparison is more dramatic to me than most.

The M4 is simply not a true GT to me, because it's just too loud, rough and raw.....but that's the reason why I bought it.

Maybe it's all relative and you are coming from a Lexus but I am surprised at how easy these cars can be DDs. I was worried coming from a 335 but the M is not rough at all in my opinion.

I'm not sure why anyone would want a Lexus-like suspension is an M car. I personally was expecting it to be a little more rough around the edges.

[Gibson6594]

Originally Posted by trey100

Maybe it's all relative and you are coming from a Lexus but I am surprised at how easy these cars can be DDs. I was worried coming from a 335 but the M is not rough at all in my opinion.

I'm not sure why anyone would want a Lexus-like suspension is an M car. I personally was expecting it to be a little more rough around the edges.

Same here, I am almost always in Sport+ and yes it rough, but it's not intolerable. I like being reminded that I'm in one of the best performing sedans on the road and I get that reminder from the stiff suspension when riding in Sport+.

[Golfster]

Opinions on cars, like most things in life, vary.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by trey100

Maybe it's all relative and you are coming from a Lexus but I am surprised at how easy these cars can be DDs. I was worried coming from a 335 but the M is not rough at all in my opinion.

I'm not sure why anyone would want a Lexus-like suspension is an M car. I personally was expecting it to be a little more rough around the edges.

Uh, to me, the perfect GT would be a Lexus-like suspension when just meandering down the road, soaking up every bump and crevice like on a cloud, and then an ultra-responsive, road-holding suspension when on the track or in the twisties.

Yes, if you're asking, I want it all. LOL

And BMW tried, by giving us the adaptive suspension. And it works well enough.

But the magnetic shocks that GM and Ferrari are using work better. You actually get a pretty nice ride in many cases, and then it can be truly responsive within a millisecond when needed.

So, it's possible.

And maybe BMW will get there in the future. Hec, for most of you, BMW is there now.

But I'm still hopeful for the dream suspension...a pillow cushion + responsive setup, all in one suspension system.

[airboss]

The August car and Driver magazine just came out and it has a 4 page article on their long term test of the 2015 M3. They just passed 40,000 miles and they had a lot to say about the ride quality and a number of other complaints. Here are some quotes about the ride;

"Even set to comfort, the M3 has the compliance of a race car. It pounds heavily over cracked pavement and freeway expansion joints, magnifying every imperfection in the road. We'd swear the chassis even gets jostled by painted lane markings and the shadows of telephone poles. And the ride got worse as the miles piled up. "The more I drive this car it gets older, the more I dislike how much it crashes over bumps," wrote copy editor Jennifer Harrington after returning from a road trip.

By the end of our test, enough shock waves had been sent thru the car that the interior had accumulated more rattles than Babies "R" Us."

From the Rants and Raves section;

"This is a nice car and the pawer and response are intoxicating, but I'm never really sad to get out of it and I never miss it"

"Even in the comfort setting, the dampers aren't what I'd call comfortable"

For those with a 2016/2017 M3/M4 with or without CP are you experiencing anything like what these guys are complaining about?

[gblansten]

There are lots of legit angles for criticism of the M3/4 but, LOL, at ripping the car on ride comfort. These people should just get out of the car magazine business if they plan to represent themselves as enthusiasts.

[Blksnowflake]

For fux sake give these turds a damn minivan to drive around. It's really hard to stomach this Car & Driver crap as coming form real car enthusiast or people that have one iota of knowledge of exactly what a performance sedan should be like.

The ride is a bit stiff, but make it soft and then it's a mess in most other contexts. When you seriously tell me you don't miss at all getting out of the M3, I sort of wince since they do have a warehouse of cars to test....but then they don't get in a P1, S65AMG or 911...no these douche nozzles talk about a Civic, GTI and such....the eff outa here.

You're trolling hard C&D, real hard, enjoy that bribe money.

fyi, didn't read this review...same crap as the last one. Grown men whining is so annoying.

[gblansten]

I think Jennifer probably drives a Toyota Camry or a Honda Accord.

Edit: 2002 Dodge Neon

[clutchdj]

I think this is a repost but yes I found article to be annoying. What kind of seasoned automotive journalist wouldn't know the M3/4 has a chassis rigidity of 40,000nm/degree. Might as well be a carbon fiber chassis. stock suspension pounding over bumps?? Wha?? Yeah right, they are not bilstiens. ///M drivers avoid bumps anyway.

[mpizutti]

If it were a soft ride they would be bitching anout it..this is a sports car and it rides like a camry ..what the hell was BMW thinking...so its a no win either way..this year is all about american muscle cars..and as much as i like the mustang gt350 and camaro..they are still just a mustang and camaro..been there done that..i am not 24 anymore and not looking for that life...i did consider the vette..but really not a good DD..and i just cant do the cts-v .. i might have jump over to the c63s amg but you van not do Euro Delivery on it..i do like the interior of the Merc..oh well thats my rant..

[TahoeM3]

Yeah usually C&D is pretty fair, but I think their criticism of the suspension is way off. If someone thinks the suspension in this car is race car firm, they've never been in a race car. Maybe Jennifer Harrington isn't much of an enthusiast, maybe she should drive a Lexus on those long road trips, or maybe she should try to use this car for what it was meant for. I think the suspension is just about perfect, and I have the standard non-adaptive suspension.