Detailed M4 Track Review - Back from Spa and Nurburgring

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Oakleyguy

Counter point, how many cars are going to feel special under 4k rpm? There's no way to get a feel from any car just puttering around on the street under 4k.

This...

I find the F8X feels MORE exciting and special around town because of the torque and brutal power compared to the E9X. The E9X only felt special to me at the track where it was an amazing car. I'll report on the F8X at the track shortly

[DanoneBMW]

Then those kind of videos started to mushroom on youtube :
it's made from m4 videos intermingled with other unflattering appliances sounds and animals. It does not go as low as ultimate farting sounds at least ...

Try the link if the video below doesn't work

[u2b]http://youtu.be/G_uqlRnLAX8[/u2b]

[MaxRulz]

Great review, sounds like you had a crap load of fun. Thanks!

[sharkfighter]

Originally Posted by regCT

Car and Driver just weighed an M4 at 3570 lbs IIRC. Essentially the same weight as the E92.

Motortrend just weighed their new long term f80 at 3,571 vs. their last long term e90 sedan at 3,689=118lbs. Car & Driver's 2009 comparo the e92 DTC weighed 3,700 vs. 3,581 f82 DTC in the new comparo. Not 200lbs but still a nice reduction.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Tornrider

Karussell, I just got back from testdriving the new M3 (the dealer did not allow me to rev past 4k rpm).

Based on my observations, you are right-the car is FAST (especially with that torque) down low, the DCT is great!. The steering feels fantastic so no complains there. My driving was on the street + a quick blast on the highway so my opinion on the steering feel may not matter.

HOWEVER, the experience was one that left me feeling cold. It did not feel special. A lot of that may be due to the turbos. Clinical is one way I would describe it. It felt like a 335+ to me (albeit with more power)

Note: I did not drive the car on the track so my opinion may be categorized as useless but I am at point where the E46 is getting to be a pain. Definitely need to sell and move on. However, I'm still not sold on the F8x.

I wasn't crazy about the E9x either BUT it did feel mighty special. Could not live with that miserable MPG though.

Question:

Did the E9x M3 feel more special tootling along under 4000rpm?

As karusell has pointed out in his review, the F8x is a definitive improvement over the E9x on a track (and on the street). That's from driving on two of the greatest tracks on earth! Obviously "feel" is a subjective thing and no one can tell you that what you felt is wrong (because it's your subjective opinion on what you felt ). But I wouldn't walk away from the F8x based on a test drive like the one you had, when we have reviews stating what a great track car it really is! That would be like walking away from a deal on Rolls Royce after a test drive on the race track and deciding that since it didn't perform like a track car it's not the car for you... Each car should be tested and evaluated for what it's intended purpose is. A max 4000rpm testdrive on "the street" (does that mean straight roads or twists and turns?) and highway certainly isn't what the F8x is meant to be special at doing. It should do it well, but were it should exel is at the track or on the mountain roads.

[aus]

Great write up, but doesn't OP drive for BMW? ie, gets paid by BMW??

There's no question about it being faster than the old. That's expected. it also good to hear it took to track use without trouble too.
.

[Suave]

Originally Posted by aus

Great write up, but doesn't OP drive for BMW? ie, gets paid by BMW??

There's no question about it being faster than the old. That's expected. it also good to hear it took to track use without trouble too.
.

OP was my Co-organizer in the ED trip and friend. He does not work for BMW. His race team, Adrenalin / HK Motorsports, is a private entity not affiliated with BMW. His review is a straight up third party opinion from likely the most experienced race car driver in Bimmerpost forum and owner of numerous road going versions of M Cars dating back to the E-30...not to mention many Porsche Cars. Karussell is the real deal and I personally watched him over a 24 hour period in the race pits of the Nurburgring making impressive accident free runs in the toughest track in the world. If there is one person qualified to speak in this forum on the merits of the new F8X this is the guy you need to listen to

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by sharkfighter

Motortrend just weighed their new long term f80 at 3,571 vs. their last long term e90 sedan at 3,689=118lbs. Car & Driver's 2009 comparo the e92 DTC weighed 3,700 vs. 3,581 f82 in the new comparo. Not 200lbs but still a nice reduction.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

According to the BMW press release, a DCT F82 M4 should weigh 139lb less than a comparably equipped DCT E92 M3. Not 200lb less. The numbers you quote are pretty close.

[karussell]

Originally Posted by aus

Great write up, but doesn't OP drive for BMW? ie, gets paid by BMW??

There's no question about it being faster than the old. That's expected. it also good to hear it took to track use without trouble too.
.

haha i wish. i drive for an independent team. no BMW hasn't paid me a single cent. I paid for this car same as everyone else.

[karussell]

more thoughts on the M4

- I never liked the seat belt mechanical arms in the E92. Then I got in my F82 and with my preferred seating position i had to learn a new way to bend my arm backwards to get the belt. I still prefer simple solutions to problems like this however. would be nice to have a tab on the seat to hold the belt.

- Auto throttle blip I really don't like and wish it had a separate deactivation button. i would prefer to use the normal throttle mode without it rev matching for me.

- Personally I think the HUD is distracting. I don't see the benefit of it at all on track. nav instructions in gauge cluster on non-HUD which is very handy. I would not order HUD even if it was stand alone option.

- Bias here but I really think the coupe looks better. the sedan looks too tall this time around. also its fairly easy to get 3 year old in and out of the back of coupe. plenty of leg room for kids.

- cloth seats are best! very grippy. feels very well built. good amount of butt scoot in the leather seat cars i have driven in. i noticed i'm bracing myself more in the leather seat cars.

[JoeFromPA]

I had the same experience with the HUD in daily driving. It was really cool for 5 minutes, then I realized I had a big beautiful screen right in the middle of my field of vision that can display all the information I need. I turned it off literally 5 minutes into the test drive.

I love, love, love that not once did you say the 18" wheels/tires left softness on the table. I feel the 19s on this car are totally unnecessary (though they do "fit" better) and I can't wait to experience the 18s.

What's your opinion on the feel of the inside of the car with the cloth interior. I was particularly concerned about the arm-rest looking cheap as I haven't seen a good picture of the armrest with the cloth interior.

I am spec'ing my car identical to yours (M/T & Adaptive Suspension) and I'm really considering YMB as the only thing that left me "cold" in my test drive was Alpine White.

This was an amazing review and I think it re-iterates one feeling you disagree with: I'm not a race car driver (besides owning a few track-worthy cars). I'm not an experienced instructor or track driver.

I truly feel this car may be too much for me on everyday streets. I have NEVER felt that way before short of a Lingenfelter CTS-V coupe. During my test drive of the M3, I gathered speed and carried it with such confidence that it blew me away. But it wasn't cold and clinical in gathering speed like a modern M5 - it was raucous and rev-happy and the M/T is only going to make it better.

To the previous poster concerned about feeling not "special", go drive an M/T version.

[michaelw9]

Originally Posted by karussell

more thoughts on the M4

- I never liked the seat belt mechanical arms in the E92. Then I got in my F82 and with my preferred seating position i had to learn a new way to bend my arm backwards to get the belt. I still prefer simple solutions to problems like this however. would be nice to have a tab on the seat to hold the belt.

- Bias here but I really think the coupe looks better. the sedan looks too tall this time around. also its fairly easy to get 3 year old in and out of the back of coupe. plenty of leg room for kids.

I agree with you about the seatbelt. Hopefully someone can come up with some tab or something to hold it on. Being pretty short, I sit with the seat pretty far forwards and upwards (but should work on decreasing that habit)

Another negative/weird observation:
If you have the seat up high, and pull the latch to get into the back seat, the top of the seat rubs and stops against the headliner and doesn't really go forward much at all. The E92 wasn't like that.

[aus]

Originally Posted by karussell

haha i wish. i drive for an independent team. no BMW hasn't paid me a single cent. I paid for this car same as everyone else.

Excellent. Good to know.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by karussell

- Personally I think the HUD is distracting. I don't see the benefit of it at all on track. nav instructions in gauge cluster on non-HUD which is very handy. I would not order HUD even if it was stand alone option.

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I had the same experience with the HUD in daily driving. It was really cool for 5 minutes, then I realized I had a big beautiful screen right in the middle of my field of vision that can display all the information I need. I turned it off literally 5 minutes into the test drive.

Thanks for that feedback. I am sort of tech junkie and was dissapointed I could not order HUD as a stand alone option. I was not willing to shed the $4500+15%tx on the premium pack just to get the HUD and get all sort of stuff I do not want.

Now, I am actually glad I don't have it

[karussell]

I am laughing while lapping with my son on the nordschleife. I have to upload the video. the car is so entertaining to drive. and its fun on a nice country road at normal speeds too. don't worry about it being too much for you. the m3 has always been a companion rather than and adversary when it comes to driving. its very forgiving and a good teacher in the way it communicates precisely whats going on up front and out back. The hooligan gene is definitely present in this car though

Interior looked great for my tastes. The center console looked like the rest of the car. not at all cheap. but built well. it holds up to a 3 year old constantly jumping on it. i love the carbon fiber accents. all the car needs is some alcantara here an there and its perfect cabin.

white looks good on this car but i'm tired of it. in our group half the cars were white. several with the sakhir orange interior. i wanted something that pops. i can say after being with sakhir orange, austin yellow, and ymb you can't go wrong with any those colors. they look fantastic!

[ersin]

Originally Posted by michaelw9

Another negative/weird observation:
If you have the seat up high, and pull the latch to get into the back seat, the top of the seat rubs and stops against the headliner and doesn't really go forward much at all. The E92 wasn't like that.

Yes, it was. If you doubt me I can provide pics. The way around this is not to move the seat forward before folding it up. But then, there is not as much room to get into the back seat.


Cheers.

[karussell]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Thanks for that feedback. I am sort of tech junkie and was dissapointed I could not order HUD as a stand alone option. I was not willing to shed the $4500+15%tx on the premium pack just to get the HUD and get all sort of stuff I do not want.

Now, I am actually glad I don't have it

particularly on a track my vision is focused on where I want to go. I use my other senses, hearing and butt dyno to tell when to shift, when and how much to brake, and the speed I am going. peripheral vision on environment around the car, shift lights, warning lights, and occasionally focus on rpm for corners i'm working on improving entrance/exit speed. on straights quick glance at dash for oil temp, coolant, fuel, warning lights... so really the hud gets ignored completely anyways when I am focused on the track. on the street maybe having the nav directions right there helps but i got it in the dash twice anyways.

also the power display is pretty much useless but its better to have that than a nav screen up for passengers i suppose.

[Oakleyguy]

Originally Posted by michaelw9

I agree with you about the seatbelt. Hopefully someone can come up with some tab or something to hold it on. Being pretty short, I sit with the seat pretty far forwards and upwards (but should work on decreasing that habit)

Another negative/weird observation:
If you have the seat up high, and pull the latch to get into the back seat, the top of the seat rubs and stops against the headliner and doesn't really go forward much at all. The E92 wasn't like that.

Turns out we have a tab! I found it on accident and confirmed it in the owners manual. There is a slight gap on the seat latch that allows you to slide the belt into it.

[karussell]

Originally Posted by Oakleyguy

Turns out we have a tab! I found it on accident and confirmed it in the owners manual. There is a slight gap on the seat latch that allows you to slide the belt into it.

really? hmm didn't see it. cool.

[Oakleyguy]

Originally Posted by karussell

really? hmm didn't see it. cool.

I never would have known if it hadn't caught my belt by accident. I'll look for the page in the owner's manual this evening.

[karussell]

So one more thing I noticed on DCT when I was coaching. When I coach a new student on a track and they have DCT, I usually prefer to place it in auto or (D) mode so they can focus on the myriad other things that they need to develop. I find that students learning in an automated gearbox car have a faster learning curve than someone with a manual. So in one particular case at Spa we placed the student's M3 in D3 (most aggressive shifting mode). Now with this setting the car never wanted to shift unless it approached redline. It tended to pick lower gears in high rpm's and I think this program is more suitable to the S65 motor. On the S55 this makes the car behave very abruptly and not smooth...which is not good on a track going up eau rouge at triple digit speed. We switched to D2 shortly after and it seemed to be the correct setting conducive to learning while keeping the car very linear.

[rubber_ducky]

Originally Posted by Oakleyguy

Turns out we have a tab! I found it on accident and confirmed it in the owners manual. There is a slight gap on the seat latch that allows you to slide the belt into it.

Nobody even had to tell you to