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      12-09-2016, 09:17 AM   #23
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the whole GTS line at BMW is a joke. they dress up the cars to tell you hey look at this looks like a Race car, where the fact is that the main goal like for example weight saving is nowhere to be found in the m4 GTS, which is necessary for a race car in the first place lol. No actual important weight saving has gone into the gts apart from the hood. thats about it. car should be 100 kg lighter like the m4. its barely lighter. with shitty interior door straps, like seriously?
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      12-09-2016, 09:19 AM   #24
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The GTS sounds like a huge POS. Time to get the conspiracy tinfoil hats off and accept it.
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      12-09-2016, 09:20 AM   #25
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Guess him and Chris Harris share the same opinion. Even drove the exact same car judging from the plates.

http://www.topgear.com/videos
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      12-09-2016, 09:40 AM   #26
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comes from the guy who said M2 is the best M ever.

GTS is getting some of the worst reviews from many however..
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      12-09-2016, 09:56 AM   #27
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Why would anyone expect a GT3-RS and M4 anything to be comparable?

The M4 GTs is based off the M4, right? And the M4 is an improvement on a standard 4 series, which is not a sports car or race car. Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this front...and yes, I understand that BMW has put a lot of effort into making the M4 GTS look and feel the part of a sports car.

The GT3-RS, on the other hand, is a true sports car - not a conversion of something else into one. It's simply not a fair comparison.

Now, if BMW attempted to make a true sports car, you could have a much better comparison on your hands.
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      12-09-2016, 10:07 AM   #28
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here we go again.
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      12-09-2016, 10:12 AM   #29
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The M4 GTS is a tricky sell... even tho BMW claimed they were all sold out from the beginning we now know that was not really the case...

The problem is first off IMHO looks, this car is ugly (very specific syling) and just cannot stack up to something like a GT3 in the appearance dept... then take into consideration that it is an M4 with a cage, coilovers and an engine tune with some performance accessories, then you are solely buying the car for exclusivity. Its one thing to buy an exclusive car like a gt3rs and have it perform... but when you buy a performance car and its reviews aren't great, no one car replicate times on tracks and its MSRP is way too much, then you have sort of a failed product.
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      12-09-2016, 10:24 AM   #30
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This car was clearly designed to be sold to what its customers "think" a #becauseracecar should look like and have. The merits of what a performance car in this segment should be are not a factor.

#becauseracecar crowd thinks a car needs wings. Front flicks or canards are the new "it" thing for this crowd.

This crowd thinks "turbo" is gods gift to cars. Anything you can do to make tirbo more turbo is good. Louder blow off valve. Hell yea. Meth or water injection. Omg !!!!

This crowd has invariably the worst possible taste and is at the same time horribly vain so any neon or or clashing colors is a bonus. In their Honda days it was usually a bright green or purple. This is bmw so let's be more classy and go with orange. Not just any orange. Acid orange! Omg.

That's all it needs. The actual merits of what makes a car fun performance car are not a factor or famously a negative factor. Steering feel and feeling a car loading up in your hands is one of them.
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      12-09-2016, 10:27 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Why would anyone expect a GT3-RS and M4 anything to be comparable?

The M4 GTs is based off the M4, right? And the M4 is an improvement on a standard 4 series, which is not a sports car or race car. Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this front...and yes, I understand that BMW has put a lot of effort into making the M4 GTS look and feel the part of a sports car.

The GT3-RS, on the other hand, is a true sports car - not a conversion of something else into one. It's simply not a fair comparison.

Now, if BMW attempted to make a true sports car, you could have a much better comparison on your hands.

So what should the GTS be compared to then? It has a freaking cage and no rear seats. I think you put yourself up against some stiff competition when you go that route.
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      12-09-2016, 10:35 AM   #32
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I would have gone with the Porsche even if I am a devoted BMW M driver.
Just my personal opinion.
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      12-09-2016, 10:38 AM   #33
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I have never seen Clarkson put down a clean fast lap, ever. If the car can't drift nicely and correct itself like auto pilot he is lost. Meaningless opinion in my opinion.
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      12-09-2016, 10:41 AM   #34
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After driving the M4 GTS, I wasn't impressed. It sounds better than a standard M3/M4 but that's not saying much since the S55 sounds horrendous.

After driving a 991 GT3, it's night and day.

And the M4 GTS is twitchy. That's could be due to the tires and the way the suspension is setup but nevertheless it's a lesser version of a GT3.

My favorite part of the whole car was the hood. That's amazing.

But alas, this is my opinion so it only means something to me lol
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      12-09-2016, 10:42 AM   #35
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I'm not a huge fan of Clarkson but watching the same people who hero-worship him say he's a nobody now because he picked on their beloved BMWs is terrific. Carry on.

For the rest of you, glad to see some sensible opinions in here.
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      12-09-2016, 10:45 AM   #36
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BMW should stop thinking they can take on the 911 with a M3 or M4. They are punching above their own weight.
I have no doubt that BMW has the know how to build a car as good or even better than a 911 but than they should really commit to it and build a totally different car. But stop with the PR bs that BMW doesn't have the need to build a 911 competitor because they have the M3/M4 or the 6 series. Because the fact of the matter is that those cars aren't in the same league.
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      12-09-2016, 10:46 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killramos View Post
This is the same Clarkson who thinks the competition pack makes the M3 worse. What did we expect?
When did he review that??
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      12-09-2016, 10:46 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schnell325 View Post
Every one has an opinion :/
I have to agree w the above quoted statement. He's an AMG guy and totally biased for starters.
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      12-09-2016, 10:49 AM   #39
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No one testing has really given high praise to the m4 m4gts or M3 not in handling sound traction ride and throttle balance even the hp for the buck...but they are testing it to 10/10ths but as a 8/10th car it's great with bags of torque over the last iteration M3....
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      12-09-2016, 10:50 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2 CSL View Post
So what should the GTS be compared to then? It has a freaking cage and no rear seats. I think you put yourself up against some stiff competition when you go that route.
Agreed - but that's my point, the competition (in this case the GT3-RS) is in such a different league, due to the approach of the manufacurer (Porsche).

If BMW really wants to compete in that kind of space, then they need to change the way the car is built. Such a car needs to be constructed from the ground up, as a sports car, not a supremely modified version of a car that's based on a luxury car platform.

I know that BMW changed a ton of things over the standard M4 - but you're still starting with the 4 series platform, right? That's a far cry from starting from a true sports car platform, which is what the 911 is.

Just my $.02....
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      12-09-2016, 10:51 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCP View Post
I have never seen Clarkson put down a clean fast lap, ever. If the car can't drift nicely and correct itself like auto pilot he is lost. Meaningless opinion in my opinion.
You don't have to be a race car driver to have credibility to review a car. I'm sorry but GTS owners always have an excuse when a negative review about GTS comes out. MotorTrend was a BMW-hater, Chris Harris was a guy who only likes to drift (although he has a racing background), and Jeremy similarly not only likes to drift but also not capable of putting a good lap time. Oh and of course they forgot to adjust the rear wing, otherwise it would have been totally different.
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      12-09-2016, 10:56 AM   #42
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I'm having more fun watching this thread de-evolve into ppl attacking each other because of a car.

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      12-09-2016, 10:59 AM   #43
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Problem with the gts is the price. It cannot hang with it's competition at that price level.
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      12-09-2016, 10:59 AM   #44
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Like I said. Meaningless to me. For the record with or without the wing it is the same car to me. Unless you have a track(Like Nords for example) that high speeds are maintained it does not affect it too much. I have tried many combinations at up to 250km/hr and entering corner at 210km/hr and grip change was marginal. No doubt many other cars are better at certain things, but this is the most track capable M off the floor by far. I have owned, and do own many. For me there is no other car aside from BMW. So I have to see it this way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
You don't have to be a race car driver to have credibility to review a car. I'm sorry but GTS owners always have an excuse when a negative review about GTS comes out. MotorTrend was a BMW-hater, Chris Harris was a guy who only likes to drift (although he has a racing background), and Jeremy similarly not only likes to drift but also not capable of putting a good lap time. Oh and of course they forgot to adjust the rear wing, otherwise it would have been totally different.
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