BMW M3 Competition Pack Faster than M4 GTS on Anglesey Track

AustinTrkJunkie · 08-12-2017, 09:45 PM

http://www.bmwblog.com/2017/08/09/vi...nglesey-track/

Discuss!

SakhirM4 · 08-12-2017, 10:08 PM

"It is rather curious but since the difference is so small, it could come down to human error or just a timing issue. Nevertheless, the M3 showed a great run on the Anglesey circuit, its lap time being impressive no matter how you look at it."

minn19 · 08-12-2017, 10:18 PM

We all know the problem, they didn't set it up right again.

danniexi · 08-12-2017, 10:20 PM

something something front splitter. something something rear wing.

CanAutM3 · 08-12-2017, 10:32 PM

Different drivers different days does not mean much. This is just another BMWBlog click bait.

All else being equal, the M4 GTS will be faster on track than a CP M3. Period.

That 1:40.40 time for the GTS comes from the Autocar 2016 best driver's car. During that same test, the M2 did a 1:44.4, which is 3.7 seconds slower than what Drivetribe achieved in their recent test of the M2. So not at an apples-to-apples comparison.

Captain Unknown GT4 · 08-13-2017, 06:19 AM

Thanks for pointing that out Canaut👍🏻

Captain Unknown GT4 · 08-13-2017, 06:25 AM

Other than that, this kind of thread are ridiculous.
Them magazine racecar driver do what they can to try to put the GTS In the shade. If you guys did visit some tracks and drive for real Insted of lay In bed watching cars..
Well then even you would understand.
Just now I was at Nurburgring, did one whole day In a M4 CP, what a joke to even compare that to GTS. And to be faster...that guy who wrote that, what do he smoke?
(This Is the M3 and latest version CP but still, what a joke, and to bring up M2

)

Parabolica · 08-13-2017, 08:51 AM

Well i would expect the M3 CP to be close to a GTS on that particular track as its a much smaller track. Im sure the GTS should still be faster and it was just a matter of a few small factors. You cant compare that track to Nurbugring, it wouldn't even be close for the M3 CP.

CanAutM3 · 08-13-2017, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parabolica

Well i would expect the M3 CP to be close to a GT4 on that particular track as its a much smaller track. Im sure the GT4 should still be faster and it was just a matter of a few small factors. You cant compare that track to Nurbugring, it wouldn't even be close for the M3 CP.

Who's comparing it to a GT4

?

Parabolica · 08-13-2017, 03:43 PM

Sorry GTS I meant.

AustinTrkJunkie · 08-13-2017, 05:56 PM

Sorry guys, I figured it was click-bait, too, but just couldn't resist posting...what I should have done is posted it on *another* forum

Captain Unknown GT4 · 08-14-2017, 10:00 AM

No matter the track, long or short M4 CP Is way off the pace of a M4 GTS, way off!!

M3/4 CP and M2, Jesus ... Its like 3 race series below In terms of laptimes. Its so far of Its accually weird to read somthing like this BMW blogg.

At this 3.1km track I do 1.25-26

Times In stock M4 GTS. Dream on, M3 CP and M2 no comptition for M4 GTS...what ever track.

I been 2 Times now with M4 GTS. They drive time attack series here and belive me no M3/4 CP or M2 stock will never ever post 1.25 laps here.

dmboone25 · 08-14-2017, 10:55 AM

^^^^I think the thread was made from a tongue in cheek perspective - of course the GTS is going to be faster, everywhere. That's why this is a little funny - no one would seriously suggest that the cars are truly comparable.

stevehifi · 08-14-2017, 01:15 PM

Regardless of same driver or not
-both GTS and M3 weigh about the same ~3600lbs
-they have the same motor/tranny/steering
-if the GTS is setup in street mode the aero on the GTS probably doesn't
do much (it doesn't look like they hit very big speeds anyways)
-CP suspension (valving) was modelled from the GTS.

The car is capable, the lap time proves it.. Go M3!!

CanAutM3 · 08-14-2017, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevehifi

Regardless of same driver or not
-both GTS and M3 weigh about the same ~3600lbs -> M4 GTS is over 100lb lighter than a CP DCT M3
-they have the same motor/tranny/steering -> The GTS has 50hp more, different tranny/steering tuning and a different geometry on the front hub which results in a wider front track
-if the GTS is setup in street mode the aero on the GTS probably doesn't
do much (it doesn't look like they hit very big speeds anyways) -> Even in street setting, the aero on the GTS has total downforce while the M3 has lift. Not that is matters much on a rather slow speed course
-CP suspension (valving) was modelled from the GTS. -> GTS has a full coil-over system, nothing like the CP

You're missing a key difference: M4 GTS has R-compound tires

The car is capable, the lap time proves it.. Go M3!!

Get your facts straight

996ttelise · 08-14-2017, 01:59 PM

GTS = flop no matter how many videos one posts. Wouldn't need to post any videos or defend anything if wasn't true.

stevehifi · 08-14-2017, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Get your facts straight

Here are your weight differences:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...s-drive-review
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ic-test-review
-1% weight difference... in the noise (not even 100lbs)

-10% hp diff.. again in the noise (we all know these cars are underrated anyways)
-tuning doesn't change the fact that its the same physical motor/tranny/steering

pretty sad that with KW CS suspension and cup 2 tires (off the shelf) and the car can't even turn a significant lap time.

CanAutM3 · 08-14-2017, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevehifi

Here are your weight differences:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...s-drive-review
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ic-test-review
-1% weight difference... in the noise (not even 100lbs)

-10% hp diff.. again in the noise (we all know these cars are underrated anyways)
-tuning doesn't change the fact that its the same physical motor/tranny/steering

pretty sad that with KW CS suspension and cup 2 tires (off the shelf) and the car can't even turn a significant lap time.

The C&D GTS weight shows "C/D est", so not an actual measured weight. From Auto Motor & Sport actual measured weights, GTS at 1591kg and CP DCT M3 at 1644kg = 117lb difference. Further, the cars compared in the OP are EU spec (the EU GTS is slightly lighter due to the seats). The fact remains that the GTS has over 10% more peak power than a CP M3 and much more area under the curve, regardless if it comes from tuning alone. This give the GTS a 15% advantage in power-to-weight, not negligible.

Don't get me wrong, I am far from being "enamored" by the GTS, quite the opposite actually. But facts need to be straight, a stock CP M3 will not be able to keep up with an M4 GTS on track.

stevehifi · 08-14-2017, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

The C&D GTS weight shows "C/D est", so not an actual measured weight. From Auto Motor & Sport actual measured weights, GTS at 1591kg and CP DCT M3 at 1644kg = 117lb difference. Further, the cars compared in the OP are EU spec (the EU GTS is slightly lighter due to the seats). The fact remains that the GTS has over 10% more peak power than a CP M3 and much more area under the curve, regardless if it comes from tuning alone. At those power levels, 10% is not negligible.

Don't get me wrong, I am far from being "enamored" by the GTS, quite the opposite actually. But facts need to be straight, a stock CP M3 will not be able to keep up with an M4 GTS on track.

100lbs is not alot of weight (2% of car weight).. and easy to remove on a stock car (especially if its converted to dedicated track car).

50 hp.. buy yourself a tune/flash and you can get double that for
a very reasonable cost..

Understand you're a facts/details guy but in general most of the special GTS go fast parts are marginal at best...

best approach is to buy a used/salvage m4, strip it down and convert to track car....

Parabolica · 08-14-2017, 06:20 PM

My original point was that for such a tight technical track, the times would be so close that a better driver could make a difference.

dkhm3 · 08-14-2017, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevehifi

100lbs is not alot of weight (2% of car weight).. and easy to remove on a stock car (especially if its converted to dedicated track car).

50 hp.. buy yourself a tune/flash and you can get double that for
a very reasonable cost..

Understand you're a facts/details guy but in general most of the special GTS go fast parts are marginal at best...

best approach is to buy a used/salvage m4, strip it down and convert to track car....

Is this thread going to become tuned vs stock?

If so, I'd slap 12 of these for at least 90 hp.

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TahoeM3 · 08-15-2017, 10:32 AM

The GTS still needs a lot more tire IMO. More power isn't much good when you still can't put it to the ground, which is already a weak spot on the base car. It matters a lot less on a high-speed track like the 'Ring, but elsewhere it's a problem. BMW also needs to shift the weight to the rear, but I think it may be a design flaw with the platform.

I still think they should make an AWD M4.

08-12-2017, 09:45 PM	#1
AustinTrkJunkie Lieutenant 336 Rep 591 Posts Drives: '22 M340i Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Round Rock, TX iTrader: (6)	BMW M3 Competition Pack Faster than M4 GTS on Anglesey Track http://www.bmwblog.com/2017/08/09/vi...nglesey-track/ Discuss!
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08-12-2017, 10:08 PM	#2
SakhirM4 Major General 10785 Rep 8,852 Posts Drives: '15 SO M4/'20 Z4 M40i Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Austin, TX iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 BMW Z4 M40i [10.00] 2015 BMW M4 [8.76]	"It is rather curious but since the difference is so small, it could come down to human error or just a timing issue. Nevertheless, the M3 showed a great run on the Anglesey circuit, its lap time being impressive no matter how you look at it." __________________ Tejas Chapter, BMW CCA, mem #23915, President 27 years, www.tejaschapter.org
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08-12-2017, 10:18 PM	#3
minn19 Lieutenant General 14023 Rep 10,075 Posts Drives: 24 Z06, 23 CT4VBW, 22 PFinder Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Minnesota iTrader: (0)	We all know the problem, they didn't set it up right again.
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08-12-2017, 10:20 PM	#4
danniexi Brigadier General 3056 Rep 4,390 Posts Drives: 2022 F97 X3M Comp LCI Join Date: May 2008 Location: NJ/NY iTrader: (15) Garage List 2022 BMW X3M Compet ... [10.00] 2016 BMW F80 M3 [10.00]	something something front splitter. something something rear wing. __________________ BMW MY22 F97 X3MC LCI - CURRENT BUILD THREAD\| Instagram: @danniexi BMW MY16 F80 M3 - GONE BMW MY08 E92 335XI - GONE BMW MY06 E46 325XI - GONE
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08-12-2017, 10:32 PM	#5
CanAutM3 General 21115 Rep 20,741 Posts Drives: 2021 911 turbo Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Montreal iTrader: (1) Garage List 2022 Audi RS6 [10.00] 2021 Porsche 911 turbo [10.00]	Different drivers different days does not mean much. This is just another BMWBlog click bait. All else being equal, the M4 GTS will be faster on track than a CP M3. Period. That 1:40.40 time for the GTS comes from the Autocar 2016 best driver's car. During that same test, the M2 did a 1:44.4, which is 3.7 seconds slower than what Drivetribe achieved in their recent test of the M2. So not at an apples-to-apples comparison. __________________ Porsche 911 turbo 2021 992 GT Silver Previous cars: M4cs 2019 F82 Limerock Grey / M4 2015 F82 Silverstone / M3 2008 E92 Silverstone / M3 2002 E46 Carbon Black Last edited by CanAutM3; 08-26-2017 at 05:03 PM..
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08-13-2017, 06:19 AM	#6
Captain Unknown GT4 Captain 557 Rep 762 Posts Drives: GT4 Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: EU iTrader: (0)	Thanks for pointing that out Canaut👍🏻
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08-13-2017, 06:25 AM	#7
Captain Unknown GT4 Captain 557 Rep 762 Posts Drives: GT4 Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: EU iTrader: (0)	Other than that, this kind of thread are ridiculous. Them magazine racecar driver do what they can to try to put the GTS In the shade. If you guys did visit some tracks and drive for real Insted of lay In bed watching cars.. Well then even you would understand. Just now I was at Nurburgring, did one whole day In a M4 CP, what a joke to even compare that to GTS. And to be faster...that guy who wrote that, what do he smoke? (This Is the M3 and latest version CP but still, what a joke, and to bring up M2) Last edited by Captain Unknown GT4; 08-13-2017 at 06:33 AM..
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08-13-2017, 08:51 AM	#8
Parabolica Major 581 Rep 1,120 Posts Drives: '18 M3 ZCP 6MT Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	Well i would expect the M3 CP to be close to a GTS on that particular track as its a much smaller track. Im sure the GTS should still be faster and it was just a matter of a few small factors. You cant compare that track to Nurbugring, it wouldn't even be close for the M3 CP. Last edited by Parabolica; 08-13-2017 at 03:43 PM..
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08-13-2017, 03:43 PM	#10
Parabolica Major 581 Rep 1,120 Posts Drives: '18 M3 ZCP 6MT Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	Sorry GTS I meant.
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08-13-2017, 05:56 PM	#11
AustinTrkJunkie Lieutenant 336 Rep 591 Posts Drives: '22 M340i Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Round Rock, TX iTrader: (6)	Sorry guys, I figured it was click-bait, too, but just couldn't resist posting...what I should have done is posted it on another forum
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08-14-2017, 10:00 AM	#12
Captain Unknown GT4 Captain 557 Rep 762 Posts Drives: GT4 Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: EU iTrader: (0)	No matter the track, long or short M4 CP Is way off the pace of a M4 GTS, way off!! M3/4 CP and M2, Jesus ... Its like 3 race series below In terms of laptimes. Its so far of Its accually weird to read somthing like this BMW blogg. At this 3.1km track I do 1.25-26 Times In stock M4 GTS. Dream on, M3 CP and M2 no comptition for M4 GTS...what ever track. I been 2 Times now with M4 GTS. They drive time attack series here and belive me no M3/4 CP or M2 stock will never ever post 1.25 laps here. Last edited by Captain Unknown GT4; 08-14-2017 at 10:15 AM..
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08-14-2017, 10:55 AM	#13
dmboone25 Lieutenant General 4972 Rep 10,200 Posts Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Dallas, TX iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 E92 328i [10.00] 2007 328i [10.00]	^^^^I think the thread was made from a tongue in cheek perspective - of course the GTS is going to be faster, everywhere. That's why this is a little funny - no one would seriously suggest that the cars are truly comparable. __________________ Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
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08-14-2017, 01:15 PM	#14
stevehifi Captain 527 Rep 855 Posts Drives: 17 F80 M3 ZCP Join Date: May 2008 Location: Irvine,CA iTrader: (5)	Regardless of same driver or not -both GTS and M3 weigh about the same ~3600lbs -they have the same motor/tranny/steering -if the GTS is setup in street mode the aero on the GTS probably doesn't do much (it doesn't look like they hit very big speeds anyways) -CP suspension (valving) was modelled from the GTS. The car is capable, the lap time proves it.. Go M3!!
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08-14-2017, 01:59 PM	#16
996ttelise Captain 385 Rep 677 Posts Drives: 458, GTS, Performante Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville and Destin, Florida iTrader: (1)	GTS = flop no matter how many videos one posts. Wouldn't need to post any videos or defend anything if wasn't true.
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08-14-2017, 06:20 PM	#20
Parabolica Major 581 Rep 1,120 Posts Drives: '18 M3 ZCP 6MT Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Toronto iTrader: (0)	My original point was that for such a tight technical track, the times would be so close that a better driver could make a difference.
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08-15-2017, 10:32 AM	#22
TahoeM3 Major 410 Rep 1,025 Posts Drives: F-type R, GTR, X5 50i Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Tampa, Fl iTrader: (0)	The GTS still needs a lot more tire IMO. More power isn't much good when you still can't put it to the ground, which is already a weak spot on the base car. It matters a lot less on a high-speed track like the 'Ring, but elsewhere it's a problem. BMW also needs to shift the weight to the rear, but I think it may be a design flaw with the platform. I still think they should make an AWD M4.
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