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      01-28-2012, 11:34 AM   #45
Powerslide
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Any confirmation of the 3.3 liter displacement or number of turbos (unofficial confirmation of course, as contradictory as that might sound - lol)?
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      01-29-2012, 03:09 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Any confirmation of the 3.3 liter displacement or number of turbos (unofficial confirmation of course, as contradictory as that might sound - lol)?
I have heard N55 based with a single e-charger and twin scroll turbo making 3 turbo scrolls- there is no need to have two scrolls with and e-charger as there is no exhaust flow to compensate for. two housing 3 scrolls, that is where it gets complicated! Turbos would be Honeywell as M has taking a liking to them.

The 3.3 has been stated and is M using the old block design cast in aluminum- doubt that personally but it is possible with new alloys I suppose.
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      01-30-2012, 01:49 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kueks29 View Post
Nonsense!

The M3 gets a straight six-cylinder 3.3 liter engine!
What are you talking about ? I6 ? What was the reliable source about the new M3 using I6 engine. Everybody is talking about the V6 turbo, are you dreaming ?
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      01-30-2012, 05:04 PM   #48
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I guess N55-based is better than any V6.


S55 perhaps? 90% redesigned?
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      01-31-2012, 12:02 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deltarain View Post
What are you talking about ? I6 ? What was the reliable source about the new M3 using I6 engine. Everybody is talking about the V6 turbo, are you dreaming ?
Unfortunately, I no longer dream.
There was a V6 engine, the engine was internally called Apollo. This engine was already fairly close to serial production, but production costs have his neck broken.
Because in the first place in the specifications was to reduce the weight by about 200 kg compared with the series. The only costs money and the vehicle must remain somewhere afterwards in an affordable and financially interesting framework for the customer.
Therefore, we changed the strategy and swung around on a modified I6 based on the N55.

Whether you scold me now or in China is a rice-bag it to anyone interested in Garching.
Fact: The F80 gets an inline six-cylinder 3.3-liter, 450 hp and 640 Nm.

Whether you like it or not ...
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      01-31-2012, 12:12 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duk View Post
I guess N55-based is better than any V6.
Unfortunately, not all ...
The V6 offers significant advantages! He builds Shorter, allows better positioning of the turbos, more freedom in the weight distribution and the thermal is easier to handle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duk View Post
S55 perhaps?
possible

Quote:
Originally Posted by duk View Post
90% redesigned?
So this is not the block of the 335i is sufficient, everyone knows ...

It was reinforced crankcase, he gets a different cylinder head, different valves, different crankshaft, different pistons, etc.
In addition, at 3.3 liters more displacement than the 335i ...

So you can not really even talk about a new engine
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      01-31-2012, 04:53 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kueks29 View Post
Fact: The F80 gets an inline six-cylinder 3.3-liter, 450 hp and 640 Nm.

Whether you like it or not ...
I like it a lot.
Also the 200 kg in weight loss that you mention. That would be astounding !
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      02-02-2012, 11:14 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kueks29 View Post
Unfortunately, not all ...
The V6 offers significant advantages! He builds Shorter, allows better positioning of the turbos, more freedom in the weight distribution and the thermal is easier to handle.

possible

So this is not the block of the 335i is sufficient, everyone knows ...

It was reinforced crankcase, he gets a different cylinder head, different valves, different crankshaft, different pistons, etc.
In addition, at 3.3 liters more displacement than the 335i ...

So you can not really even talk about a new engine
I have no idea how you got your info or if its in anyway reliable but I like it a a lot...
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      02-11-2012, 05:32 AM   #53
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Its great to hear the news of inline-6. I expect it will have heaps of power and most importantly sound like a BMW should!

I think it should be no heavier than the old S54 NA 6 cylinder, so I wouldn't expect serious issues with weight distribution.
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      02-11-2012, 05:54 AM   #54
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Last night I was at the presentation of the F30. Among other guests was also a current DTM driver.
But someone from the M-GmbH. Of course I asked for the new M3 engine and got on just a blink.
When I asked what that would mean, I was told:
"are at the last time penetrated to a lot of information to the outside, so radical that was-at least invoked inline-6 official! also means the inline-6 old BMW history. will Nonetheless, there is no inline-6, but a V6! The engine is derived from the M5, has 3.3 liter capacity and will introduce a new generation of M engines! "

As I said: The last information said very clearly: It is an inline-6!
The last night sounded very authentic and the present DTM drivers said later in a small circle just telling: "BMW has been the tradition in motor sports and also in the DTM One reason for the decision to the DTM the possibility of a promotional message from the motor sport! transferred to the road! from season 2014 this will converge, although the V8 engine technically no longer be used! "

Furthermore, it was rumored in a similar form of a re-entry into Formula 1, because the engine would correspond to the concept of the next M3 ...

Ladies and gentlemen, I think we all are a huge rip-mounted and are contrary to all protestations to the current M-GmbH and exclamations of insiders still see a V6 ...
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      02-11-2012, 10:42 AM   #55
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so, the F80/82 M3/M4 are going to be bigger than the e9x m3, & wearing a v6? That just doesn't make any sense.

if BMW were to scale down the M3/M4 size then yes, by all mean, use V6 application.


Building 2 new engines from the groundup, v6 is always cheaper to build than an I6. So, in order for kueks & Southlight mentioned v6 is more costly to produce, that means BMW engineers are comparing the options of building the new V6 versus pulling n55/n54 off the shelf & modifying this engine for the new M.

In order words, if BMW were gonna go with i6, the new M would get a modify n54/n55.

Am i right?
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      02-12-2012, 12:47 AM   #56
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Speedfan, I agree with you. For a larger car the V8 seems to make sense for a lot of buyers. M-B don't have any trouble selling C63s with the 6.2 litre V8. People tend to fall in love with the sound of the M-B V8s in particular.

However V8s are not for me - I would only ever buy a BMW with an inline 6. Mainly because of the sound and the smoothness. V6 will be lighter, but to me it smells like compromise in the interests of vehicle packaging.

To me BMW has always been synonymous with inline-6 engines. If I wanted a twin turbo V6, I could buy a Nissan GTR. Instead I rather buy a car that has BMW character. To me an inline-6 engine is probably the single most significant part of BMW's prestige and reputation.
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      02-12-2012, 12:55 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfan View Post
In order words, if BMW were gonna go with i6, the new M would get a modify n54/n55.

Am i right?
I think the N55 block is pretty much limited to 3.0 litre displacement. N54 and N55 has 84mm bore. To get 3.2 Litre the old S54 used 87mm bore, but that is a cast iron block and may not be possible with the N55's composite/alloy construction.
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      02-12-2012, 09:40 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01
Speedfan, I agree with you. For a larger car the V8 seems to make sense for a lot of buyers. M-B don't have any trouble selling C63s with the 6.2 litre V8. People tend to fall in love with the sound of the M-B V8s in particular.

However V8s are not for me - I would only ever buy a BMW with an inline 6. Mainly because of the sound and the smoothness. V6 will be lighter, but to me it smells like compromise in the interests of vehicle packaging.

To me BMW has always been synonymous with inline-6 engines. If I wanted a twin turbo V6, I could buy a Nissan GTR. Instead I rather buy a car that has BMW character. To me an inline-6 engine is probably the single most significant part of BMW's prestige and reputation.
To each their own - I personally view M character with balance and performance with every-day drivability - regardless of whether it's an i6, v6, v8, v8tt, s85 v-10, etc.

If BMW decides that the V6 configuration will outperform the i6 configuration (all other factors being equal and the developmental budget allowing either option) I don't understand why people would care.

Assume hypothetically BMW offered both I6 and V6 in the new F80 for the same or very similar price. Your options would be: 1) I6 (traditional sound, traditional configuration); or 2) V6 which is faster on most/all tracks due to better cooling, lower center of gravity, etc etc but without "traditional" I6 layout or exhaust
sound (but would turbo i6 have same traditional exhaust sound as NA I6 engines from past anyway)?

I would choose option 2 above - even if it meant a slightly higher price than I6 - and I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of current/future would also...
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      02-12-2012, 10:08 AM   #59
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Hmm, so first everyone was talking about a V6, then it was 'confirmed' it would be an inline 6, and now we're back to the V6 again ??

I hate Internet rumors ;-)

Anyway, an M5 V8 4.4L = 560 HP, or about 127,3 HP per liter.
So a 3.3L V6 engine, derived from the M5, would equal 3 x 127,3 HP = 420 HP (and some tuning potential).

Yeah baby, bring it on...

I agree with 'Powerslide'. I don't care about the engine lay-out or NA/TT, as long as the car puts down decent performance and handling.
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      02-12-2012, 10:41 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
Speedfan, I agree with you. For a larger car the V8 seems to make sense for a lot of buyers. M-B don't have any trouble selling C63s with the 6.2 litre V8. People tend to fall in love with the sound of the M-B V8s in particular.

However V8s are not for me - I would only ever buy a BMW with an inline 6. Mainly because of the sound and the smoothness. V6 will be lighter, but to me it smells like compromise in the interests of vehicle packaging.

To me BMW has always been synonymous with inline-6 engines. If I wanted a twin turbo V6, I could buy a Nissan GTR. Instead I rather buy a car that has BMW character. To me an inline-6 engine is probably the single most significant part of BMW's prestige and reputation.
Yup. v6 < i6 as in terms of balance, efficiency, & cost.

BMW is most famous for their i6, & now they're considering to switch stance because of what bs? cost? packaging? oh boy. Maybe the boys at the M division should take notes from Toyota TRD then.
Because more than 10 years ago, Toyota TRD presented a legendary inline-6 twinturbo called Supra.

I kinda agree with the argument that "whatever engine the M division shoves in the M3, it will be a great engine/car".

Personally, I wanna see BMW uses its i6, or else, might as well just merge with their Japanese competitor(s).
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      02-13-2012, 09:28 AM   #61
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BMW M3 (F80)

Gewicht
Leergewicht EU in kg 1.415 Kg
Zulässiges Gesamtgewicht in kg 1.865 Kg
Zuladung in kg 470 Kg

Motordaten (S66)
Zylinder/Ventile V6/4
Hubraum in ccm 3.296
Hub/Bohrung in mm 88,3/89
Nennleistung in kW (PS) bei 1/min 331 (450) 6.000-7.200
Nennleistung in kW (PS) bei 1/min 353 (480) 5.750-7.300 im Performance Package
Max. Drehmoment (Nm) bei 1/min 510/1.350-6.200
Max. Drehmoment (Nm) bei 1/min 550/1.400-6.500 im Performance Package
Verdichtung : 1:10

Verbauch
Innerorts in l/100 km 10,8
Außerorts in l/100 km 6,0
Kombiniert in l/100 km 8,5
CO2-Emission kombiniert in g/km 199
Tankinhalt (ca.) in l 70

Fahrleistungen
Höchstgeschwindigkeit in km/h 250
Höchstgeschwindigkeit in km/h 300 im Performance Package
Beschleunigung 0–100 km/h in s 4,3
Beschleunigung 0–100 km/h in s 4,0 im Performance Package
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      02-13-2012, 05:07 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kueks29
BMW M3 (F80)

Gewicht
Leergewicht EU in kg 1.415 Kg
Zulässiges Gesamtgewicht in kg 1.865 Kg
Zuladung in kg 470 Kg

Motordaten (S66)
Zylinder/Ventile V6/4
Hubraum in ccm 3.296
Hub/Bohrung in mm 88,3/89
Nennleistung in kW (PS) bei 1/min 331 (450) 6.000-7.200
Nennleistung in kW (PS) bei 1/min 353 (480) 5.750-7.300 im Performance Package
Max. Drehmoment (Nm) bei 1/min 510/1.350-6.200
Max. Drehmoment (Nm) bei 1/min 550/1.400-6.500 im Performance Package
Verdichtung : 1:10

Verbauch
Innerorts in l/100 km 10,8
Außerorts in l/100 km 6,0
Kombiniert in l/100 km 8,5
CO2-Emission kombiniert in g/km 199
Tankinhalt (ca.) in l 70

Fahrleistungen
Höchstgeschwindigkeit in km/h 250
Höchstgeschwindigkeit in km/h 300 im Performance Package
Beschleunigung 0–100 km/h in s 4,3
Beschleunigung 0–100 km/h in s 4,0 im Performance Package
Thanks for that information - all those figures are from a reliable source - or are some of those figures a guess or estimate? (obviously I don't expect you to say who your source of imformation is)...
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      02-13-2012, 05:10 PM   #63
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Also kueks29 - any confirmation as to whether performance package will be available in USA?
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      02-13-2012, 05:18 PM   #64
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BMW M3 (F80)

Weight
Net weight in kg 1415 kg EU
Gross vehicle weight kg 1865 kg
Payload kg 470 kg

Motor data (S66)
Cylinders / valves V 6/4
Displacement in cc 3296
Stroke / bore in mm 88.3 / 89
Rated power in kW (hp) at 1/min 331 (450) 6000-7200
Rated power in kW (hp) at 1/min 353 (480) 5750-7300 in the Performance Package
Max torque (Nm) at 1/min 510/1.350-6.200
Max torque (Nm) at 1/min 550/1.400-6.500 in the Performance Package
Compression: 1:10

consumption
City consumption in l/100 km 10.8
Out of town at 6.0 l/100 km
Combined in l/100 km 8,5
Combined CO2 emissions in g / km 199
Tank capacity (approx.) in 70 l

Performance
Top speed in km / h 250
Top speed in km / h 300 in the Performance Package
Acceleration 0-100 km / h in 4.3 s
Acceleration 0-100 km / h in 4.0 s in the Performance Package


If these would be the real numbers... Whoow... 4.0 s that's quick... real quick...
Also notice the revving to 7300 rpm with the perf package.
And 8.5 L of average consumption. That's as 'low' as a 335i.

I repeat... If these numbers are true, we can expect a monster... (in the positive sense)

Last edited by hwelvaar; 02-13-2012 at 05:28 PM.. Reason: Error correction
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      02-13-2012, 05:43 PM   #65
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TRANSLATION PLEASE.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kueks29 View Post
BMW M3 (F80)

Gewicht
Leergewicht EU in kg 1.415 Kg
Zulässiges Gesamtgewicht in kg 1.865 Kg
Zuladung in kg 470 Kg

Motordaten (S66)
Zylinder/Ventile V6/4
Hubraum in ccm 3.296
Hub/Bohrung in mm 88,3/89
Nennleistung in kW (PS) bei 1/min 331 (450) 6.000-7.200
Nennleistung in kW (PS) bei 1/min 353 (480) 5.750-7.300 im Performance Package
Max. Drehmoment (Nm) bei 1/min 510/1.350-6.200
Max. Drehmoment (Nm) bei 1/min 550/1.400-6.500 im Performance Package
Verdichtung : 1:10

Verbauch
Innerorts in l/100 km 10,8
Außerorts in l/100 km 6,0
Kombiniert in l/100 km 8,5
CO2-Emission kombiniert in g/km 199
Tankinhalt (ca.) in l 70

Fahrleistungen
Höchstgeschwindigkeit in km/h 250
Höchstgeschwindigkeit in km/h 300 im Performance Package
Beschleunigung 0–100 km/h in s 4,3
Beschleunigung 0–100 km/h in s 4,0 im Performance Package
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      02-13-2012, 05:45 PM   #66
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EDIT: sorry... beat me to it!! Thanks.

TRANSLATION PLEASE.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kueks29 View Post
BMW M3 (F80)

Gewicht
Leergewicht EU in kg 1.415 Kg
Zulässiges Gesamtgewicht in kg 1.865 Kg
Zuladung in kg 470 Kg

Motordaten (S66)
Zylinder/Ventile V6/4
Hubraum in ccm 3.296
Hub/Bohrung in mm 88,3/89
Nennleistung in kW (PS) bei 1/min 331 (450) 6.000-7.200
Nennleistung in kW (PS) bei 1/min 353 (480) 5.750-7.300 im Performance Package
Max. Drehmoment (Nm) bei 1/min 510/1.350-6.200
Max. Drehmoment (Nm) bei 1/min 550/1.400-6.500 im Performance Package
Verdichtung : 1:10

Verbauch
Innerorts in l/100 km 10,8
Außerorts in l/100 km 6,0
Kombiniert in l/100 km 8,5
CO2-Emission kombiniert in g/km 199
Tankinhalt (ca.) in l 70

Fahrleistungen
Höchstgeschwindigkeit in km/h 250
Höchstgeschwindigkeit in km/h 300 im Performance Package
Beschleunigung 0–100 km/h in s 4,3
Beschleunigung 0–100 km/h in s 4,0 im Performance Package

Last edited by ksflatlander; 02-13-2012 at 06:02 PM..
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