M4 GTS acceleration numbers from Evo magazine

[RedGT3RS]

Originally Posted by jml

Except when it (991 GT3) goes into limp mode and needs a new motor....for the third time....

Even if it needed a new motor for the 5th or 6th time I'll still take the Porsche 😂

But the m4 gts is an impressive car, really like it.

[dawgdog]

Originally Posted by Ryan997GT3

Even if it needed a new motor for the 5th or 6th time I'll still take the Porsche 😂

But the m4 gts is an impressive car, really like it.

If you had to pay for the new motor? These cars will be out of warranty at some time and then what? Seems like Porsche is doing as little as possible on these engines, and only replacing engines when they absolutely have to.

[Motorsportenterprise]

Originally Posted by dawgdog

If you had to pay for the new motor? These cars will be out of warranty at some time and then what? Seems like Porsche is doing as little as possible on these engines, and only replacing engines when they absolutely have to.

I don't think anyone would want to pay for a new motor if it should be covered by the manufacturer but overall it's an overhyped thing, just like the motor problems BMW or Ferrari or x manufacturer has has with their motors. I own a 991S so my experience isn't first hand but the half a dozen people I know with GT3/RS' have not had any problems and they all track them a lot and drive them hard. One did have a motor replaced but they are stout motors and unlike other these motors are really the pinnacle of engineeering/engines and pushed the envelope a lot. Overall I'd trust their durability and reliability more than anyone else making anything that may be considered similar or trying to compete in the space.
I disagree with you on the latter. Porsche has done well by their customers, which is why they continue to sell these cars and why you cannot get them without paying huge mark up.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

This isn't really directed at you, Barry, but your comment is a good jumping off point.

The big difference is that the Porsche will do that time back to back, to back, to back, to back... All day long.

Road & Track took a 2014 911 Turbo S to an airstrip and hammered launch control 50 times in a row. The car never faltered. Porsche is definitely the exception, not the rule. I cannot think of another manufacturer who builds a car that can do this.

Don't get me wrong. I am incredibly grateful that BMW chose to build the M4 GTS. I'm also super impressed with this iteration of the GTS versus the E92. A 7:28 Nurburgring lap shows exactly what the car is capable of. There's still something in the back of my head that puts the 911 GT3 RS ahead of it though.

It's all moot though. I'm willing to bet that not a single M4 GTS buyer evaluated it against the 911 GT3 RS. I wouldn't be surprised if there were an overlap in M4 GTS ownership and 911 GT3 (probably not RS though) ownership that approaches 80%. BMW doesn't have to worry about whether the M4 GTS can do 50 back-to-back runs to 150 MPH in under 20 seconds, but the fact remains that the Porsche can do it.

Since your link is for a 911 Turbo S and not a GT3 (as you refer to). The comparison isn't really all that valid.

I'm sure we can do 50 consecutive launches on a M235i with the ZF 8 speed But that doesn't mean that any other BMW can do the same...

True both the Turbo S and GT3 has a DKG and is closer in that regard. And even though none of these cars are drag racers, I would have preferred that the BMW launch control could take more abuse...

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I don't think it is fair to compare the launch consistency of the AWD 911 Turbo-S with the M4 GTS.

I would be curious to find out if the 991 GT3 RS is as consistent as the Turbo-S.

The consistency is amazing, but that's not really what I was pointing out. What differentiates the Porsche from everyone else is the fact that the car continues to launch time after time without any electronic nannie stepping in. I don't have a video of the GT3 RS doing it, but I can't see why it wouldn't. If anything, the driveline in the Turbo S has a much tougher life than the GT3 RS, because the Turbo S is AWD and has to deal with a higher output engine.

What other manufacturer produces a car that will do that? That's not rhetorical. I'm genuinely curious. Ferrari? McLaren? Will their launch control systems let you launch over and over?

Originally Posted by Boss330

Since your link is for a 911 Turbo S and not a GT3 (as you refer to). The comparison isn't really all that valid.

I'm sure we can do 50 consecutive launches on a M235i with the ZF 8 speed But that doesn't mean that any other BMW can do the same...

True both the Turbo S and GT3 has a DKG and is closer in that regard. And even though none of these cars are drag racers, I would have preferred that the BMW launch control could take more abuse...

Your comparison to the M235i is laughable, and I think you know that It's not even close to being in the same league as these cars. Even still, I question whether it would go in to limp mode after 50 consecutive launches with the ZF8.

I think the Turbo S is a valid comparison because it produces more HP (580 vs 500 hp) and way more torque (516 vs 339 lb ft) than the GT3, and torque is what breaks drivelines. If their driveline can survive in the Turbo S, the GT3 will be no problem.

You guys are walking right past my point though. I know a handful of guys who participate at PBIR. I'm closest with a couple of guys who drive exotics, but not Porsches (sorry I'm being vague, but I don't want any blowback). In one-on-one conversations, both of them have said that while they absolutely love their cars, they're a little envious of how the Porsche guys never seem to break their cars. Now, there are a lot of reasons a car can break, and many of those reasons can be blamed on the drive, but neither of these guys are hoons. They respect their cars, and they're all decent drivers.

Let me get down to it: I am excited about and impressed by the M4 GTS, and it's clear that BMW finally have the 911 GT3 in their sights, but there's more work to do. Being able to catch a 911 GT3 on one lap is cool and all, but Porsche has a solid reputation for building cars that stand up to track day abuse. I think we should push BMW to keep that fact in mind, and encourage them to deliver cars that can take more abuse.

Side note: Now, I know that bit about Porsche reliability has a bunch of people standing on their heads. Ever since the glimmer of a rumor appeared that Porsche was moving away from the Mezger engine, there have been droves of people claiming that it was the end of the GT3 as we know it. Maybe that's true. I don't have enough experience to know, but historically, Porsche has a solid reputation for reliability (and smashing in to Corvettes on racing circuits). I'd be sad to see them squander that, but it's besides the point. The point is that we should ask more of BMW.

[AwesomeM3]

I would have expected better numbers. My X5M (Dinan Stage 1) did 11.94 @ 115.87 mph (no launch control), and it weighs 5200+ pounds. I realize the X5M is AWD, but still.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by AwesomeM3

I would have expected better numbers. My X5M did 11.94 @ 115.87 mph (no launch control), and it weighs 5200+ pounds. I realize the X5M is AWD, but still.

The M4 GTS trapped 7.5 MPH faster than your X5M. That is a massive difference. The only reason the ET is anywhere close is AWD. The M4 GTS is not a drag car. Granted, neither is the X5M, but AWD is a massive advantage on the ET side of things.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Folks... I want to stress that time comparisons are irrelevant if the cars are not tested together under the same conditions. The Evo times for the M4 GTS are great for a RWD front engined car in cold temperature and low friction surface. I'm pretty sure others will record even better times under warmer conditions and on a more traction friendly surface. I suspect BMW underrate the real power of the GTS, which explains these great numbers...

So please let's not compare and bitch about Porsche vs BMW anymore. Both are great cars!

[AwesomeM3]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

The M4 GTS trapped 7.5 MPH faster than your X5M. That is a massive difference. The only reason the ET is anywhere close is AWD. The M4 GTS is not a drag car. Granted, neither is the X5M, but AWD is a massive advantage on the ET side of things.

That's fair, but the X5M also weighs almost 2000 pounds more than the M4 GTS. Pretty impressive numbers for the X5M, in my opinion.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by AwesomeM3

That's fair, but the X5M also weighs almost 2000 pounds more than the M4 GTS. Pretty impressive numbers for the X5M, in my opinion.

They're incredible It's just worth understanding how they relate to the M4 GTS times.

[jml]

I have an X5M. It's about 5600lbs with gas on scales. I'm guessing those times are from a tuned beast. Huge advantage to 100mph with the traction and power. They are ridiculous cars, really. I know a lot of folks hate them for being M cars, but I love mine.

[classyfast]

Originally Posted by silverarrow

This isn't a head to head comparison:roll eyes: Do you own a porsche?

As a matter of fact I've owned a 08 boxer S, and an 11 Cayman S. Obviously not gt2/gt3 status or anything like that but I can speak on wheel time/track time in those if you like. So you can roll eyes somewhere else.

[dawgdog]

Originally Posted by Motorsportenterprise

I don't think anyone would want to pay for a new motor if it should be covered by the manufacturer but overall it's an overhyped thing, just like the motor problems BMW or Ferrari or x manufacturer has has with their motors. I own a 991S so my experience isn't first hand but the half a dozen people I know with GT3/RS' have not had any problems and they all track them a lot and drive them hard. One did have a motor replaced but they are stout motors and unlike other these motors are really the pinnacle of engineeering/engines and pushed the envelope a lot. Overall I'd trust their durability and reliability more than anyone else making anything that may be considered similar or trying to compete in the space.
I disagree with you on the latter. Porsche has done well by their customers, which is why they continue to sell these cars and why you cannot get them without paying huge mark up.

I have owned a 997 GT3 RS for 4 years and love it. But there are issues even with this engine e.g. Cam bolts backing iout, coolant hose leaks. And there is the known clutch / pressure plate issues, and the differential never holds up. But with the 991 there appear to be real engine issues. I think the latest "g" engine may have it sorted but the majority will likely have issues. The 991RS appears to be OK. All I am saying is I would be concerned getting a 991.1 GT3. I seriously considered getting one but the engine issues and VWs (Porsche's) recent financial issues and belt tightening concern me.

[jml]

Originally Posted by dawgdog

I have owned a 997 GT3 RS for 4 years and love it. But there are issues even with this engine e.g. Cam bolts backing iout, coolant hose leaks. And there is the known clutch / pressure plate issues, and the differential never holds up. But with the 991 there appear to be real engine issues. I think the latest "g" engine may have it sorted but the majority will likely have issues. The 991RS appears to be OK. All I am saying is I would be concerned getting a 991.1 GT3. I seriously considered getting one but the engine issues and VWs (Porsche's) recent financial issues and belt tightening concern me.

To add to that. I had a 997.2RS for 3 years, and I can attest that they are not indestructible track cars. No anywhere close. It seemed like something would go wrong at every event. . The cost owning it was eye-watering.

The E90 I had prior never had a single mechanical issue, though it did overheat after a few laps...because BMW. I drove both with the same level of "enthusiasm", the RS was obviously much faster, and could typically drive through a full tank of gas in anger without breaking a sweat.

[dawgdog]

Originally Posted by jml

To add to that. I had a 997.2RS for 3 years, and I can attest that they are not indestructible track cars. No anywhere close. It seemed like something would go wrong at every event. . The cost owning it was eye-watering.

The E90 I had prior never had a single mechanical issue, though it did overheat after a few laps...because BMW. I drove both with the same level of "enthusiasm", the RS was obviously much faster, and could typically drive through a full tank of gas in anger without breaking a sweat.

My e experience as well. I did close to 80 track days in my e92 M3 with almost no issues. Not the case with the RS. And everything in the Porsche world costs double. In fact, we discuss costs in terms of Porsche points because it doesn't feel so bad. One Porsche point = $1000 dollars.

[Captain Unknown GT4]

The talk that Porsche would be bulitproof on track is nonsens. I been on the Nurburgring since 1993, Porsche is just a car like any other. They al brake down and wear out in the end. There is a LOT of VW part is a Porsche, thats no joke. Thats the deal to make profit, a big manufakturer like VW would be stupid not to.

Anyway, god part on GTS is that this water thing will give less termal wear to that engine. Very much less due to that mist of fine water spray in engine. Other than than that, keep it stock and track it like you stole it. All free service and waranty, great package.

[ualdrivr]

That car looks sooo yummy!