M3 EOP, M3 vs. M4, "I am in an inventor!", and oh my gosh let's all go O the hell T

[frankiebones]

The 2018MY for the F80 begins this summer (July 2017). So, it will be in production for MY2018 for 16 months from 6/17 to 10/18?

[OF Hero]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

The 2018MY for the F80 begins this summer (July 2017). So, it will be in production for MY2018 for 16 months from 6/17 to 10/18?

Yes.

This still seems somewhat odd to me... it doesn't feel like the F8x has been around that long! Next gen by 2020 or 2021?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

The 2018MY for the F80 begins this summer (July 2017). It will be in production for the 2018MY for 16 months from 6/17 to 10/18?

Yes.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1266163

Originally Posted by OF Hero

Next gen by 2020 or 2021?

1H 2020 if the M3 finally becomes independent from the M4 (low probability), 1H 2021 if it does not.

Theoretically an M4 GC could replace the M3 next generation as well, but I would stress that there is absolutely nothing to substantiate such a shift at this time.

[shay2nak]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Yes.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1266163



1H 2020 if the M3 finally becomes independent from the M4 (low probability), 1H 2021 if it does not.

Theoretically an M4 GC could replace the M3 next generation as well, but I would stress that there is absolutely nothing to substantiate such a shift at this time.

Thank god it's 10/18. I thought it was 10/17! Even though I asked the question in the linked thread. lol Must have slipped my mind. Kind of surprised production is going through 2018. This is 100% accurate? I'm still planning on ordering in the fall, but maybe I can wait longer if this is true.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by shay2nak

This is 100% accurate?

It accurately reflects the available inside information, yes. Also, G20 mules are nowhere near evolved enough for a possible 2017 release.

Kind of surprised production is going through 2018.

Why? F30 production started late 2011 so an EOP date in late 2018 is right on target for the normal seven year product cycle. And there's no reason to end the F80 any earlier than the F30.

[frankiebones]

Still crazy to me to have a single Model Year stretch 16+ months, but then again I know nothing about car production.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by frankiebones

Still crazy to me to have a single Model Year stretch 16+ months, but then again I know nothing about car production.

It should have been 20 months since the MY2018 M3 was delayed from March SOP.

If you look at the link I posted in the other thread, you will see that the MY2016 F10 also went 16 months. If you think about it, there is no other possible solution that would accommodate the late calendar-year release date of the succeeding generation. The only solution would be to delay the product into the start of the next year (that would be early 2019 in this case). In that way, there could exist a final, shortened MY2019 F30/F80 from July 2018 through early 2019, and the G20 could start as MY2020. BMW used to do it that way but they switched to a late calendar-year debut starting with the E90.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Theoretically an M4 GC could replace the M3 next generation as well, but I would stress that there is absolutely nothing to substantiate such a shift at this time.

Surely BMW wouldn't allow the M3 moniker disappear completely though ??

It has to be the most widely known model of the brand...

[Carl L]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Surely BMW wouldn't allow the M3 moniker disappear completely though ??

It has to be the most widely known model of the brand...

Zero chance of that happening. Similar to the M5, but to an even greater extent, the M3 has brand value no competitor can match. C63 AMG S doesn't have quite the same history or roll of the tongue in quite the same way. Along with the i8, the M3 represents the pinnacle of BMW's engineering and this eventually filters down to the rest of models.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Carl L

Zero chance of that happening. M3 has brand value no competitor can match.

That's whatI was getting at - I mean, there's an M5, M6, and M6 GC - why wouldn't they just do the same with the 3 and 4?

Or simply make the next M3 more GC-like, if that makes sense.

[rosenbergendo]

Please don't let anything remotely resemble a GC. Ugliest set of vehicles ever!

[ff1600]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

You do realize that the M3 was basically a 2-door car for the first 25+ years of its life, with a very limited 4-door in the E36 and E90.

Yes. I bought new a 2006 M3 which I traded in on a 2008 E90. I have owned BMWs since 1973 all 4 doors except for the E46 and 2001 M Coupe.

The history of the M3 is why I don't understand where BMW is heading with the performance options of the M4 not being offered on the M3.

[JollyRodger]

The problem is they shot themselves in the foot with the whole 'lets add a billion' models numbers. The M3 has traditionally been based off of the 2 door version of the 3er. By rebadging that model they made it hard on themselves. The coupe is the sought after model but the 30 years of reputation is with the name of the 4 door now. I think they are hoping that if they just produce 172 versions of the M4 this gen they can have people forget about the M3 and just push for the M4.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by JollyRodger

By rebadging that model they made it hard on themselves. The coupe is the sought after model but the 30 years of reputation is with the name of the 4 door now.

I really don't think it matters that much - did calling it an "M4" hurt sales? No. That's because the brand equity carries over intact to anything ///M and the new kids coming up will only know the M4.

It's only the oldsters that would care, and ... we don't care.

[04RC51]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

You do realize that the M3 was basically a 2-door car for the first 25+ years of its life, with a very limited 4-door in the E36 and E90.

Haha! The same people that are amazed at the lack of current limited edition M3 models are the same people who think there shouldn't be M branded SUVs. Next we will have people upset that there are no current 'vert limited edition models.

You drive a FOUR DOOR BRO! If they built a LE model, all BMW would hear is how your goddamn child's carseat doesn't fit or there's no cupholder for Tyler's sippee cup. Give BMW a break already people! It's enough already! The fake outrage about stuff you have no intention of buying is so contrived. It's nauseating!

[Dinh335]

I heard the m4 is being phased out since it's not offered with four doors

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by 04RC51

Next we will have people upset that there are no current 'vert limited edition models.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by 04RC51

Haha! The same people that are amazed at the lack of current limited edition M3 models are the same people who think there shouldn't be M branded SUVs. Next we will have people upset that there are no current 'vert limited edition models.

You drive a FOUR DOOR BRO! If they built a LE model, all BMW would hear is how your goddamn child's carseat doesn't fit or there's no cupholder for Tyler's sippee cup. Give BMW a break already people! It's enough already! The fake outrage about stuff you have no intention of buying is so contrived. It's nauseating!

I understand what you're saying, but you also seem to believe - mistakenly so in my opinion - that four doors somehow automatically precludes the highest level of performance. This isn't the case at all.

I traded in my Porsche for my four door bro F80...because I truly think it looks better than the F82. The performance is identical for the base and ZCP versions of the M3 and M4 - hence your argument doesn't hold much water. Do you really think that a CS version of the M3 would be inferior ?

How long has the M4 been around now ? Three years ? And the M3? Try ten times that...hence the reason for the confusion around the lack of a CS-esque M3.

PS - I have no kids and yet I still chose the four door bro. And I would be interested in a CS version of the M3.

[Dinh335]

this thread is already and eventually somehow headed towards the e92 being the most pure m3 then the e46ers will chime in and it will end w a debate over lci Led tails being the true symbol of performance ....

It's amazing how personal preference one has somehow dictates the history and future of an automotive company. You're entitled to your opinion but people really seem to think they are entitled to a custom built car sometimes.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Dinh335

people really seem to think they are entitled to a custom built car sometimes.

and custom built with a mix of old and new technology.

It's like the great transmission angst: if you really love sporty transmission intimacy, you can buy a horse. How intimate one wants to get is up to them. And people still track their horses plenty. BMW has figured out how to pack the power of 500 of them into a mass produced car, but it requires an upgrade in technology across the board.

An "enthusiast" is someone who helps drive the sport auto industry forward by supporting the latest and fastest technology. Retro is fine, but don't claim to be "pure" or an "enthusiast".

Auto racing has always been about that next tweak to run just a bit faster - enthusiasts support that, everyone else is a hobbyist.

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

An "enthusiast" is someone who helps drive the sport auto industry forward by supporting the latest and fastest technology. Retro is fine, but don't claim to be "pure" or an "enthusiast".

No. You're twisting "enthusiast" to mean what you want it to mean for your argument, not what it actually means. It means someone who is very interested in a particular activity or subject.

What you described is a "track day enthusiast" who is primarily interested in the fastest way to get round a track. If it were proven that painting your car bright pink shaved one second off your lap time, you'd do it.

"Studebaker enthusiasts" don't give flying fuck about the latest and fastest technology. But they're still enthusiasts. Still automotive enthusiasts.

And as such, some of us here could be "BMW enthusiasts" or "driving enthusiasts" where we appreciate BMW engineering, or just enjoy driving a manual BMW. Don't give a fuck about "latest and greatest" - after all, the electric steering is the "latest and greatest" - tell me how much you love that?

Being a sports car enthusiast does not mean you have to be excited by everything that makes a car go faster. You can still be enthusiastic about older technology that you have a particular interest in. Like those who prefer NA over Turbo. 6MT over DCT. Hydraulic steering over electric. It's about appreciating something, not being told what you should and shouldn't appreciate.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by dinonz

Being a sports car enthusiast does not mean you have to be excited by everything that makes a car go faster.

The literal definition of "sports car enthusiast" is someone who's enthused about using their car for sport. Sport is about competition, competition is about winning, winning is about going faster.

Therefore if you're not using the latest technology to go faster you don't care about winning which means you can't compete, which means you're not using your car for sport which means you cannot be a sports car enthusiast.

QED.