Detailed M4 Track Review - Back from Spa and Nurburgring

[03///m3]

Originally Posted by karussell

Great news is the seating position is excellent. You sit low. I agree on the E92 always wondered why E9X was so high up. Felt like a pickup after getting out of a 997. For a long time I ran a Recaro Pole Position in my E90 M3's so i could sit where I preferred.

Steering wheel diameter on these cars always too large for my tastes. It think its about the same as E92. Definitely needs alcantara though!

Thanks for addressing all of my questions. Would you say the f80 seats are more supportive than the cloth e92 seats. I would be getting the cloth seat option on the f80 too.

[karussell]

Originally Posted by 03///m3

Thanks for addressing all of my questions. Would you say the f80 seats are more supportive than the cloth e92 seats. I would be getting the cloth seat option on the f80 too.

yes particularly if its a US spec e92 m3 you are referring to. we now have the same lower bolsters that the rest of the world gets. the lateral support is excellent in the F8X seats no matter if its sedan, coupe, leather or cloth. in particular the cloth which has a nice grippy weave on it will hold you quite well.

[seis-speed]

Great review!

Curious as to the 18" wheel package you have vs the 19"? Were you able to compare and contrast the two packages and do you have any inclination of whether or not choosing the 19" package is a considerable loss in performance?

I really liked the 18" package on the E9X, but love the looks of the 19" for the M4.

Thanks!

[03///m3]

Originally Posted by karussell

yes particularly if its a US spec e92 m3 you are referring to. we now have the same lower bolsters that the rest of the world gets. the lateral support is excellent in the F8X seats no matter if its sedan, coupe, leather or cloth. in particular the cloth which has a nice grippy weave on it will hold you quite well.

Thank you! I appreciate it.

[PrimeBMW]

Karussel:
Could you elaborate on a few items:

Manual gear box, clutch, drive line spin up?
I never drove the manual gear box in the E92 M3 but bought and still own the DCT E92 M3. I own an E46 M3 race car with a 14.5 lb. flywheel and 5.5” Tilton clutch that spins up very quickly and is easy to heal toe. If I had to guess I would think the weight savings of the new F8X M3 gear box is in the clutch, flywheel then of course the carbon fiber drive shaft helps. Could you speak to the improvements made to the new unit and how it may compare to a racing set up? Also, are the gears relatively in the “same place” or do the engine and trans move all over the place? (once again I am used to a race car with the engine, trans, diff, and rear sub frame hard mounted)

How do you think the brake system and adaptive suspension will hold up given sticky track tires? I find the OEM brakes (with race pads) and EDC shock fluid over heat within 5-6 minutes with BFG-R1. I guess the question in my head is can this new car be an arrive and drive (add sticky track tires) for track days or will you need BBK, coilovers, etc..?

Also. The E92 M3 was so heavy it was a hindrance on the track…..not to mention it ate brake pads in 1-2 days. How important do you think it is to make the F8X M3 as light as possible for the track?
Thank you for your contributions!

[W///]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

I'd like to think not, but BMW is very crafty about what they sneak into updates on ECU's in for general service.

Me the M Boss?

The only thing I'd change on the new M3/4 is add competition pack because the stock ride height is to high IMO.

The M2 I'd like a back to a basic car with a CF roof. Enough choices so that you can have a striped down car (NO iDrive : ~ ) !) or a fully loaded car. M-DCT as well as S55 w/out the top mount cooler. A much raw more focused car with static suspension and that sweet CF drive shaft from the M3/4.

If you are hoping for a detuned S55, I'll stop you right there and tell you it's not going to happen.

That is my concern with the M2.
- single turbo most likely, vs S55
- weight: are they going to go all out and use more CF, or is this going to be another 1M?

Karusell's glowing review definitely has me leaning towards an F80, but I guess I'll wait a couple of years and pay off the E92 first.

[karussell]

Originally Posted by seis-speed

Great review!

Curious as to the 18" wheel package you have vs the 19"? Were you able to compare and contrast the two packages and do you have any inclination of whether or not choosing the 19" package is a considerable loss in performance?

I really liked the 18" package on the E9X, but love the looks of the 19" for the M4.

Thanks!

I had the only car in the group with 18's. drove several of the 19's although just on the track and its very smooth track. no noticeable change in comfort or performance from the wheel sizes. originally I was going to turn the car into a competitor in this years N24 race so i was specified with pretty much no options other than the adaptive suspension and dct. when the timeframe making the car ready for the race went past i dropped DCT and added the USB audio integration thing. only 2 options on the car other than YMB paint.

[socalm3lover]

OP, thank you for the great write up and you have been around long enough to pay no attention to the "should have used....", etc comments. You wrote it, obviously it is what you think and also you put in the effort. The vast, vast majority of us understand and appreciate your input and work.

One good question I do not think was answered was on the 1200 mile service in Germany. Several years past ('01), I arranged the service at a dealer north of ring. No problem, no questions, no cost. With an '08 delivery, the dealer wanted to be paid. After numerous phone calls with BMWNA, etc., they eventually paid for the service. On our '13 delivery, the ED documents specifically state that a 1200 mile service in Germany is not part of the program. Seems rather trivial that it is not included, but it is what it is.

Thanks again, we are considering an M4 ED next year.

John

[karussell]

Originally Posted by socalm3lover

OP, thank you for the great write up and you have been around long enough to pay no attention to the "should have used....", etc comments. You wrote it, obviously it is what you think and also you put in the effort. The vast, vast majority of us understand and appreciate your input and work.

One good question I do not think was answered was on the 1200 mile service in Germany. Several years past ('01), I arranged the service at a dealer north of ring. No problem, no questions, no cost. With an '08 delivery, the dealer wanted to be paid. After numerous phone calls with BMWNA, etc., they eventually paid for the service. On our '13 delivery, the ED documents specifically state that a 1200 mile service in Germany is not part of the program. Seems rather trivial that it is not included, but it is what it is.

Thanks again, we are considering an M4 ED next year.

John

Thanks John. well you kinda answered your own question there. It was covered in the past. now its not. I don't think its a very big deal. Consider Germans don't get free maintenance, only a 2-year warranty and with tax they spend roughly double for their own car. imagine if GM told americans the corvette costs $120k for them while they sell it overseas for half the price. There would be a riot. I never complain about these things especially when I'm overseas. We are getting a tremendous deal!

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by W///

If you are hoping for a detuned S55, I'll stop you right there and tell you it's not going to happen.

That is my concern with the M2.
- single turbo most likely, vs S55
- weight: are they going to go all out and use more CF, or is this going to be another 1M?

Karusell's glowing review definitely has me leaning towards an F80, but I guess I'll wait a couple of years and pay off the E92 first.

If this is going to be another quasi m-car I give up.

YOU asked what I'd do if I was the ///M Boss...

I have a feeling they will serve up the weak M Sauce on this Baby M and go backwards after offering the low # teaser that the 1M was designed for.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

I have a feeling they will serve up the weak M Sauce on this Baby M and go backwards after offering the low # teaser that the 1M was designed for.

isn't this just weak sauce from you?

BMW has two hits in a row in the 1M and the M3/M4.... but apparently.. it's just so easy to hate.... so let's just call the next car a dud in advance.... because the good news just HAS to come to an end right?

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

isn't this just weak sauce from you?

BMW has two hits in a row in the 1M and the M3/M4.... but apparently.. it's just so easy to hate.... so let's just call the next car a dud in advance.... because the good news just HAS to come to an end right?

Oh, and don't forget that a LOT of people here also expected the F8x to be a dud... Especially the engine and it's sound...

Seems the F8x impresses in many ways, even though so many here meant that BMW had lost their way and that M was only Marketing now...

[The long haul]

Karussell,
How would you compare the sporty feel of this car compared to let's say... A 1M? I own a 1M and while I know the F8x is significantly faster, I love the spirit of the 1M. I'd honestly consider a F8x I just am trying to make myself get past the underwhelming sound. I guess if the car is great overall I could potentially get over it. I just don't know if I'd regret selling my 1M to get a YMB F80.
Thoughts?

[Fuman]

After reading the feedback on the adaptive suspension (and also other articles), I've been thinking about height adjustment without affecting the adaptive suspension system.

Would this mean that the selection of the lowering coils would be critical? But what about height adjustment? How's this done if the struts are kept? I'm just using my experience from KWs.

[DC2015F80]

Great review. Your characterizations and descriptions were spot on with my impressions. However, I could have never written them so succinctly. I have never driven the E90, but have owned both an 1990 E30 (10 years) and my current 2002 E46 (13 years). I found those comparisons matched my perspective. I put 1350 miles on my car post ED, primarily autobahn/stradas/routes and did drive the Stelvio pass. So I was able to see the car in several environments. Regrettably , I did not make the track days so I can not comment on that aspect but its street performance was impressive. The forced air induction and ample braking made the ascent and the descent a breeze.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by Fuman

After reading the feedback on the adaptive suspension (and also other articles), I've been thinking about height adjustment without affecting the adaptive suspension system.

Would this mean that the selection of the lowering coils would be critical? But what about height adjustment? How's this done if the struts are kept? I'm just using my experience from KWs.

A lot of M5 owners have put lowering springs on their cars without problems. The strut doesn't normally set or adjust the ride height, that's what the springs do. Lowering springs should work as on any other car.

However, going for a coil over kit would require you to change the struts and also lose the adaptive suspension. This has also been done by quite a few M5 owners. Needing them to also use a plug in box to fool the DME into thinking it still has adaptive struts to avoid a error code. And also loose the adjustability...

[The long haul]

Originally Posted by Boss330

A lot of M5 owners have put lowering springs on their cars without problems. The strut doesn't normally set or adjust the ride height, that's what the springs do. Lowering springs should work as on any other car.

However, going for a coil over kit would require you to change the struts and also lose the adaptive suspension. This has also been done by quite a few M5 owners. Needing them to also use a plug in box to fool the DME into thinking it still has adaptive struts to avoid a error code. And also loose the adjustability...

I assume it's the same principle behind coilovers on the E9x M3 with EDC, Macht Schnell had a EDC Emulator that prevented DTCs at the obvious cost of losing EDC function. Hell KW has the DDC kits now that offer adaptive functionality just like OE and I'm sure the F8x will be no exception.

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by karussell

Engine - well the heart and the soul of a car is the engine and by far its the biggest contested item here and i heard the debate over and over in many languages over the past 2 weeks. my personal opinion is the new S55 is the best M motor ever. I do not miss the S65 at all.

[kinimod]

In my experience the 3000rpm threshold might be a placebo.

Under 3000rpm, it actually feels linear like it's naturally aspirated, as if there was no turbo. Then after that threshold the car comes "alive": pulls hard and makes more noise.

Combination of these facts might make it appear as a "turbo lag" while it's in fact an intentional tuning. Maybe under 3K the small turbo is active, above that the bigger one kicks in?

[bdoooh]

Originally Posted by kinimod

In my experience the 3000rpm threshold might be a placebo.

Under 3000rpm, it actually feels linear like it's naturally aspirated, as if there was no turbo. Then after that threshold the car comes "alive": pulls hard and makes more noise.

Combination of these facts might make it appear as a "turbo lag" while it's in fact an intentional tuning. Maybe under 3K the small turbo is active, above that the bigger one kicks in?

Turbos are equally sized.

[karussell]

Originally Posted by Neverenoughboost

Karussell,
How would you compare the sporty feel of this car compared to let's say... A 1M? I own a 1M and while I know the F8x is significantly faster, I love the spirit of the 1M. I'd honestly consider a F8x I just am trying to make myself get past the underwhelming sound. I guess if the car is great overall I could potentially get over it. I just don't know if I'd regret selling my 1M to get a YMB F80.
Thoughts?

I have been in several 1M's mostly on track. Fantastic car. How is the sound better though? I think the F8X sounds just as good.

I love the 1M and I started competing in a 1 Series so it has a special place in my heart as well. The short wheelbase is hilariously fun. That's a tough choice to make for you. I think you should test drive a F80 if you haven't already before making your decision. Just by production numbers the 1M will be better off with depreciation I think. It will keep its cult status, but I think the M2 is going to be another great M car as well.

[karussell]

Originally Posted by Neverenoughboost

I assume it's the same principle behind coilovers on the E9x M3 with EDC, Macht Schnell had a EDC Emulator that prevented DTCs at the obvious cost of losing EDC function. Hell KW has the DDC kits now that offer adaptive functionality just like OE and I'm sure the F8x will be no exception.

I don't think they are adaptive, more like they have several presets you can pick.