Tesla Model 3 Performance: 3.5s 0-60, 155MPH top speed, 310mi range, $78k

[joeykayo]

Originally Posted by nars3000

Yup, it's sad, but 100% true. A good majority of EV, PHEV, Hybrid owners have never heard of the BMW M3 before. I've even mentioned it casually here in the past...

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...53&postcount=3

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...2&postcount=22

Uh...it kind of disgusts me. I don't know why. The M3 has so much heritage. Legacy. All those buzzwords. LOL. It just seems a bit disrespectful.

Also, do you think the Tesla Model 3 Performance can outrun an F80 M3 on a track lap after lap? I have my doubts seeing how the Tesla Model S performed on the Nurburgring. I may eat my own words, but we'll see.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by joeykayo

I was reading the comments on this post (https://electrek.co/2018/05/21/tesla...-tesla-denies/) and I saw people referring to the Model 3 as the M3. I don't know if they know. SMH.

Some non-performance vehicle enthusiasts may be unaware. However, I would guess that plenty of people know that the term is being overloaded, but just don't care.

I've seen both the Z4 and 350Z called "Z". I've seen the old Nissan Q45 referred to as the "Q", and the new Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio as well. Porsche 911 Carrera S sometimes goes by "CS", and now we have an M3/M4 "CS" going by only that name now then too. Many cars with "GT", "GTR", "GT*", "R", "RS", etc. in their names, get shortened to those few letters when talked about in a focused context. I'm sure other instances exist too.

Is the "M3" example perhaps the most overt? Maybe. But I don't think its a big deal either way. I'm sure that abbreviation got created shortly after the Model 3 was announced and became a discussion point in forums without much thought to the fact that it was also the name of BMW's popular performance sedan. Now that the Performance Model 3 is revealed and the comparisons to the M3 are everywhere (thanks to Musk's troll tweet) it is a bit confusing. But, oh well.

What bothers me more is that the Model 3 doesn't have separate model names like the Model S and Model X do. Really, the Model 3 should have:

Model 3 60
Model 3 60D
Model 3 75
Model 3 75D
Model 3 P75D

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by joeykayo

I doubt it will beat an M3 on the track with those brake times.

TM3 performance will have high performance upgraded brakes.
Regular TM3 will improve as well in coming weeks via OTA software update
Tesla is tweaking ABS algorithm on it

Originally Posted by joeykayo

Also, do you think the Tesla Model 3 Performance can outrun an F80 M3 on a track lap after lap? I have my doubts seeing how the Tesla Model S performed on the Nurburgring. I may eat my own words, but we'll see.

Base TM3 was able to run good few laps
I'm pretty sure Perf model would be even better
Problem with Model S was motor housing overheat
TM3 has completely different setup

BTW, these motors are used on Tesla Semi as well
They designed to withstand some serious load

P.S. I would die laughing if M3 overheats after many laps while TM3 keeps going
That would put final nail in its coffin.
Summer can't come soon enough to see the battle

[JibSTir13]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

TM3 performance will have high performance upgraded brakes.
Regular TM3 will improve as well in coming weeks via OTA software update
Tesla is tweaking ABS algorithm on it

P.S. I would die laughing if M3 overheats after many laps while TM3 keeps going
That would put final nail in its coffin.
Summer can't come soon enough to see the battle

Riiight, because the F8X platform is known to have overheating issues. Do you happen to be friends with that Alfa driver who hangs out here? Your reference to the final nail in its coffin is illogical as it implies there have been numerous issues with the M3 and overheating would be the final straw.

I'm unclear about the brake issue. So Tesla released a car that has problems with its ABS algorithm? Seems like a huge oversight if true.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by JibSTir13

Riiight, because the F8X platform is known to have overheating issues. Do you happen to be friends with that Alfa driver who hangs out here? Your reference to the final nail in its coffin is illogical as it implies there have been numerous issues with the M3 and overheating would be the final straw.

I'm unclear about the brake issue. So Tesla released a car that has problems with its ABS algorithm? Seems like a huge oversight if true.

No, I'm not familiar with that person. I was just being sarcastic. I'm pretty sure M3 is better suited for the track. But I'm also curious to see how Tesla is stuck up against mighty M3. And regarding brakes, it's not like it's bad, it just can be improved.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

P.S. I would die laughing if M3 overheats after many laps while TM3 keeps going
That would put final nail in its coffin.
Summer can't come soon enough to see the battle

Most of my yearly track days are done in 90+ degreee ambient days. I have yet to experience any overheating or seen any other S55 powered cars experience any overheating. The S55 has a robust air to water top mount intercooler that does wonders. Other BMW’s with N54 and N55 can have issues with there air to air cooling, far less effcient.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Edmunds Says Long-Term Tesla Model 3 Has Tons Of Issues

https://insideevs.com/edmunds-says-l...ons-of-issues/

[JibSTir13]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

No, I'm not familiar with that person. I was just being sarcastic. I'm pretty sure M3 is better suited for the track. But I'm also curious to see how Tesla is stuck up against mighty M3. And regarding brakes, it's not like it's bad, it just can be improved.

2018 Ford F-150 curb weight: 4,069 to 5,265 lbs
2017 Tesla Model 3 curb weight: 3,549 to 3,838 lbs

Given the weight disparity combined with the fact that the Tesla takes about 7 feet longer to stop from 60 mph, I would say the brakes are bad.

Framing it as the brakes "just can be improved" is too generous.

[WestRace]

All these bragging from Mr. Musk seems a bit childish and I am starting to doubt whether he really knows about cars. I mean sure he has a background in rocket engineering but if I were a real car guy, I would never put an Ipad screen on a dash board, never, and at least for the money they ask for the Model 3, there should be at least something on the dash board that indicates speed, rpm and so on. I suppose he was just trying to market the car to a particular type of demographic like teckies and IT who spend most of their time on a computer so just like Mr. Musk, the extend to which they "know" about cars are fairly superficial like 0-60 straight line number. Maybe at this point of his career, Mr. Musk is chasing a philosophy and his electric cars are probably a mean to something else.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by JibSTir13

2018 Ford F-150 curb weight: 4,069 to 5,265 lbs
2017 Tesla Model 3 curb weight: 3,549 to 3,838 lbs

Given the weight disparity combined with the fact that the Tesla takes about 7 feet longer to stop from 60 mph, I would say the brakes are bad.

Framing it as the brakes "just can be improved" is too generous.

How about we wait for a real test of TM3 Perf. when it comes out to judge its braking capability?

The P100D stopping distances are pretty short, at 109ft.
I'm sure it's very good for the size/weight of such large car with skinny tires

E 63 S requires 116 feet, the Audi RS 7 needs 105 feet, 2017 M5 = 106ft

[WestRace]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

How about we wait for a real test of TM3 Perf. when it comes out to judge its braking capability?

The P100D stopping distances are pretty short, at 109ft.
I'm sure it's very good for the size/weight of such large car

E 63 S requires 116 feet, the Audi RS 7 needs 105 feet, 2014 M5 = 106ft

For track use, the brakes have to withstand multiple high speed stops, not just from 60-0, but could be 100 - 30 or 120 - 30 depends on the tracks. Also the Model S and Model 3 are top speed limited due to their one-gear only gear box so they may be very fast from 0 - 60 or quarter mile, their top speed are limited to I think about 120mph.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by WestRace

For track use, the brakes have to withstand multiple high speed stops, not just from 60-0, but could be 100 - 30 or 120 - 30 depends on the tracks. Also the Model S and Model 3 are top speed limited due to their one-gear only gear box so they may be very fast from 0 - 60 or quarter mile, their top speed are limited to I think about 120mph.

Model X, S and 3 performance models are governor-ed at 155, just like most german cars
Nothing to do with 1 gear

Brakes should have ample power on Performance model for such runs, we shall see

[JibSTir13]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

How about we wait for a real test of TM3 Perf. when it comes out to judge its braking capability?

The P100D stopping distances are pretty short, at 109ft.
I'm sure it's very good for the size/weight of such large car with skinny tires

E 63 S requires 116 feet, the Audi RS 7 needs 105 feet, 2017 M5 = 106ft

We were not talking about the TM3. The numbers reflect the current Model 3 and your position that the brakes on the current car are not bad.

Nor are we talking about the P100D compared to the E63S, RS7, or M5 so those numbers add nothing to the discussion at hand.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by JibSTir13

We were not talking about the TM3. The numbers reflect the current Model 3 and your position that the brakes on the current car are not bad.

Nor are we talking about the P100D compared to the E63S, RS7, or M5 so those numbers add nothing to the discussion at hand.

It's all about TM3 Performance model, see OP
I'm not sure why someone brought in regular TM3 brake issue to this thread.
Historically, brakes were always great on all performance models of Tesla lineup

[JibSTir13]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

TM3 performance will have high performance upgraded brakes.
Regular TM3 will improve as well in coming weeks via OTA software update
Tesla is tweaking ABS algorithm on it

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

No, I'm not familiar with that person. I was just being sarcastic. I'm pretty sure M3 is better suited for the track. But I'm also curious to see how Tesla is stuck up against mighty M3. And regarding brakes, it's not like it's bad, it just can be improved.

You

It's cool, I agree that we wait for the actual TM3 before judging it.

But that doesn't change the crap brakes on the current car.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Musk taking shots at the BMW ///M3 on Twitter.

Too cute.

yeah, he should STFU. Handle better than the M3? In which universe?

Please. Get back to me when it can complete a full single lap of a track as fast as a E36 M3...

[JibSTir13]

Musk is just hyping the TM3 and Tesla brand.

His statements lack context and are really for shock value (kinda like Trump). It works - lots of us are discussing a non-existent TM3 against the M3.

Musk: "About same as BMW M3, but 15% quicker and with better handling."

15% quicker to 0-60 is what I think he means...but there's no mention of a 1/4 mile time and trap speed. Better handling under what circumstances? A broad statement such as this should mean in all circumstances but no one knows because the TM3 doesn't really exist yet (other than presumably at a Tesla factory/test ground).

Musk: "Will beat anything in its class on a track."

Which cars does he place in the same class as TM3? Is he referring to the M3/4, RS5, and C63, or other EVs?

Good for him for making Tesla a topic of discussion among performance car enthusiasts, and for pulling a fast one on those that don't really know what other metrics are used to judge the capabilities of a performance car.

As others have said, he panders to non-enthusiasts (which is what most Tesla drivers are).

[JibSTir13]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

I hate to break it to you, but most BMW buyers are not car enthusiasts either.
We are fairly small group

However, we shall see sales figures for M3, AMG, RSs and etc some time later this year. I'm really curious to see how TM3 is going to affect that
Regular TM3 is already outselling base 3-er, C-class and A4 in some states
It's just a beginning...

I agree, this is not breaking news to me. Not even all M buyers are car enthusiasts.

To be clear, I'm a fan of EVs for daily driving (and possibly even as a performance car in the future as the tech develops).

But I will not completely forgo ICE performance cars, especially not my 6-speed F80.

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

TM3 performance will have high performance upgraded brakes.
Regular TM3 will improve as well in coming weeks via OTA software update
Tesla is tweaking ABS algorithm on it

Base TM3 was able to run good few laps
I'm pretty sure Perf model would be even better
Problem with Model S was motor housing overheat
TM3 has completely different setup

BTW, these motors are used on Tesla Semi as well
They designed to withstand some serious load

P.S. I would die laughing if M3 overheats after many laps while TM3 keeps going
That would put final nail in its coffin.
Summer can't come soon enough to see the battle

While I am intrigued by this upcoming Tesla model - and while I also believe it is just a question of time until all-electric vehicles surpass ICE-based cars in every performance metric - to say the M3 has overheating issues is incredibly misinformed. I've run mine full-out on the track for 4-5 continuous 25-30 minute sessions in over 90F temps on a single day, multiple times (as have innumerable others on this forum). The M3 is truly bullet-proof on long, sustained, punishing track days.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by JibSTir13

I agree, this is not breaking news to me. Not even all M buyers are car enthusiasts.

To be clear, I'm a fan of EVs for daily driving (and possibly even as a performance car in the future as the tech develops).

But I will not completely forgo ICE performance cars, especially not my 6-speed F80.

MT is awesome. I've been driving all of my past cars (until my last BMW X6M) only with 6-speed.
Actually back in days, some of them started with only 4-speed
All of them were RWD.
Great times, but i don't miss it, nor i miss the sound
It's just different type of fun now and i'm very excited even after 5yrs to get behind the wheel of Tesla car.

Originally Posted by Powerslide

While I am intrigued by this upcoming Tesla model - and while I also believe it is just a question of time until all-electric vehicles surpass ICE-based cars in every performance metric - to say the M3 has overheating issues is incredibly misinformed. I've run mine full-out on the track for 4-5 continuous 25-30 minute sessions in over 90F temps on a single day, multiple times (as have innumerable others on this forum). The M3 is truly bullet-proof on long, sustained, punishing track days.

I was being sarcastic and should have put appropriate emoji. New M3 is a great achievement IMO. I don't think it's a problem, unless we are talking about some older generations.
I'm glad you're enjoying your M properly

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

MT is awesome. I've been driving all of my past cars (until my last BMW X6M) only with 6-speed.
Actually back in days, some of them started with only 4-speed
All of them were RWD.
Great times, but i don't miss it, nor i miss the sound
It's just different type of fun now and i'm very excited even after 5yrs to get behind the wheel of Tesla car.

I was being sarcastic and should have put appropriate emoji. New M3 is a great achievement IMO. I don't think it's a problem, unless we are talking about some older generations.
I'm glad you're enjoying your M properly

Gotcha - 10-4 buddy - enjoy your ride too

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Powerslide

While I am intrigued by this upcoming Tesla model - and while I also believe it is just a question of time until all-electric vehicles surpass ICE-based cars in every performance metric - to say the M3 has overheating issues is incredibly misinformed. I've run mine full-out on the track for 4-5 continuous 25-30 minute sessions in over 90F temps on a single day, multiple times (as have innumerable others on this forum). The M3 is truly bullet-proof on long, sustained, punishing track days.

+1 I think EV's are still far off being used as actual weekend track cars. They will get there, but not quite yet. What is the range of the Model 3P battery driving flat out? What is the real world scenario of someone trying to use one as a weekend track car? What can it do during a HPDE, minimum 6 30min sessions during the day. Hard driving, not some pussy footing it around. Does it need charging through out the day. If so, how many times and for how long(also where is that done)? Is there any reduced power or limp modes occured. How do the brakes hold up? Etc... I've seen the one short session of Model 3 at Mid Ohio with M3 backing off while following. When the Model 3P is available lets see a real world scenario using the car the entire HPDE.