DINANTRONICS Stage 3 (STD & CP Models) / High Performance Heat Exchanger

[Sleeper]

Originally Posted by JoM3z

Nets you a whole lot of nothing but sound!

Yep. That's why I asked. You could scrap all the useless components and make the same power running OEM intake, exhaust and likely cooler. It's all in the tuning. One look at a Stage 1 flash tune says it all - you don't need anything more than stock parts to make very solid power/torque.

[TR930]

Originally Posted by MNoob

It's not the strategy for the tune or conservatism that is at issue. It's verifying that the tune actually does what is advertised. The results that Dinan advertise exactly fit what you have described. None of the independent dyno runs I've seen confirm the Dinan advertising.

Not all dynos are the same, gas not the same, heat, humidity, fans on the front, no fans, altitude not same. Probably more that I forgot. I dynoed my car so I know it has gains, the car is now a rocket ship on the highway. I can live with it not exactly matching another car or another dyno with all the other variables, etc. And, it has a warranty.

What someone needs to do is 4 consecutive dyno runs; one at baseline, stage 1,2, and 3 to show delta on each. I can do this at some point but, I am at altitude and with 91 oct gas. It won't match anything out there from anyone else ( I'm guessing).

[Bluer2]

Originally Posted by TR930

Not all dynos are the same, gas not the same, heat, humidity, fans on the front, no fans, altitude not same. Probably more that I forgot. I dynoed my car so I know it has gains, the car is now a rocket ship on the highway. I can live with it not exactly matching another car or another dyno with all the other variables.

What were your dyno results for the stage 3 tune?

[C_Treadwell]

Originally Posted by Sleeper

The intake and exhaust make the most difference in terms of what?

What I was saying was the suspension work makes the most difference. The intake and exhaust give a modest boost, but the turbo spool sounds and deeper exhaust note make the driving experience more enjoyable.

I did notice actual low end toque boost when I switched to the AA mid-pipe, but that was likely due to the cat-delete. Dinan only removes the resonator because they want to stay 50-date emissions legal**.

**Except in California where the intake is for whatever reason not street legal

[hova00]

Dinan while you are reading all of these comments i would like to invite you to step up and prove that your products work as advertised.

I will purchase your stage 3 software and heat exchanger with before and after dyno results.

Are you willing to refund me every dollar back for your product, install cost, and dyno time if your product does not produce the power increases that Dinan is putting in their advertisements?

If it does perform as advertised then me and about 10 other people would be happy Dinan customers and if it doesn't then we know that your product is being sold with a WARRANTY and LIES.

[JoM3z]

Originally Posted by hova00

Dinan while you are reading all of these comments i would like to invite you to step up and prove that your products work as advertised.

I will purchase your stage 3 software and heat exchanger with before and after dyno results.

Are you willing to refund me every dollar back for your product, install cost, and dyno time if your product does not produce the power increases that Dinan is putting in their advertisements?

If it does perform as advertised then me and about 10 other people would be happy Dinan customers and if it doesn't then we know that your product is being sold with a WARRANTY and LIES.

I am Game! my stage 3 is currently at the dealer on hold. If we can come close within the accepted margin of error and environmental differences to the advertise gains I will be more than happy to do this.

[hova00]

Originally Posted by JoM3z

I am Game! my stage 3 is currently at the dealer on hold. If we can come close within the accepted margin of error and environmental differences to the advertise gains I will be more than happy to do this.

Here are 2 of us that are willing, able and ready.

Dinan the ball is in your court. This would really be a great way to silence all of the naysayers.

[JoM3z]

Originally Posted by hova00

Here are 2 of us that are willing, able and ready.

Dinan the ball is in your court. This would really be a great way to silence all of the naysayers.

I believe there's about 3 or 4 others here that are willing to do the same thing. Let's hope they listen to their customers.

[m4282]

Originally Posted by JoM3z

I believe there's about 3 or 4 others here that are willing to do the same thing. Let's hope they listen to their customers.

Why not just get their heat exchanger and buy another fbo exhaust with a bm3 tune, that would work better no? And be a lot cheaper

[JoM3z]

Originally Posted by m4282

Why not just get their heat exchanger and buy another fbo exhaust with a bm3 tune, that would work better no? And be a lot cheaper

Like most who buy Dinan we buy it for the piece of mind and not necessarily max gains.

[Dinan_Engineering]

The short of it is, we stand behind our claims and numbers advertised for the stage 3 M3/M4 kit. I will not set a precedent that will force Dinan to individually prove each and every one of our products to the masses via some independent study group which is what is being demanded however. I do not see the same demands being laden upon other vendors of parts. If a realistic discussion can be had it needs to be based upon consistent data so that all concerns can be addressed. Dynos are tools, nothing more.

I am not a dyno aficionado, nor an engineer, and have never claimed to be so I am not the person that can properly field those conversations. That is a tech support function as they deal with that side of it every day and are much more knowledgeable then I will ever be. If you’d like to have a more in-depth discussion, I encourage anyone that has concerns to call them and discuss or alternatively send the data to me so I can pass it along. Please have all applicable data on-hand though which would include:

• Before and After Dynos each with the below info
• Make/Type of Dyno
• Environmental Conditions (humidity, temp, etc)
• Volumetric rating of the cooling tools
• Correction factor if any
• Pass # of run in question or amount of time passed in between passes.
• Transmission of car
• Gear used
• Fuel (91, 93, other)
• COMPLETE list of mods
• Whether traction control was completely turned off or not
• Does the dyno run provider sell their own tune? (You wouldn't believe how many times this has been exposed as the culprit by just going to an independent dyno facility with no ties to a tune)

When we have proper data we can assess each customers concerns on an individual basis.

[Caliboy951]

Fair enough. As a returning customer (I planned on going with a Dinan stage 3 tune later this month) will you back up the HP and torque claims on your website?
Understand I'm a previous customer (I run your rear diff in my E60 M5 and I love it) so I am in no way bashing I just want to make sure what is posted on your site is what I'd get.

[Downeaster1]

Originally Posted by hova00

Dinan while you are reading all of these comments i would like to invite you to step up and prove that your products work as advertised.

I will purchase your stage 3 software and heat exchanger with before and after dyno results.

Are you willing to refund me every dollar back for your product, install cost, and dyno time if your product does not produce the power increases that Dinan is putting in their advertisements?

If it does perform as advertised then me and about 10 other people would be happy Dinan customers and if it doesn't then we know that your product is being sold with a WARRANTY and LIES.

You sound like a fun person to hang out with.

[C_Treadwell]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

The short of it is, we stand behind our claims and numbers advertised for the stage 3 M3/M4 kit. I will not set a precedent that will force Dinan to individually prove each and every one of our products to the masses via some independent study group which is what is being demanded however. I do not see the same demands being laden upon other vendors of parts. If a realistic discussion can be had it needs to be based upon consistent data so that all concerns can be addressed. Dynos are tools, nothing more.

I am not a dyno aficionado, nor an engineer, and have never claimed to be so I am not the person that can properly field those conversations. That is a tech support function as they deal with that side of it every day and are much more knowledgeable then I will ever be. If you’d like to have a more in-depth discussion, I encourage anyone that has concerns to call them and discuss or alternatively send the data to me so I can pass it along. Please have all applicable data on-hand though which would include:

• Before and After Dynos each with the below info
• Make/Type of Dyno
• Environmental Conditions (humidity, temp, etc)
• Volumetric rating of the cooling tools
• Correction factor if any
• Pass # of run in question or amount of time passed in between passes.
• Transmission of car
• Gear used
• Fuel (91, 93, other)
• COMPLETE list of mods
• Whether traction control was completely turned off or not
• Does the dyno run provider sell their own tune? (You wouldn't believe how many times this has been exposed as the culprit by just going to an independent dyno facility with no ties to a tune)

When we have proper data we can assess each customers concerns on an individual basis.

Thank you for the response.

I'd also like to point out that someone on this thread confirmed a dyno at 485 whp. If I'm not mistaken, both BMWs OEM HP and Dinan's stage 3 HP are based on the conversion to crank HP or BHP. Rough conversion of 20% loss of power down to the wheels means that 485 WHP dyno is actually 600 at the crank. Feel free to correct me if I'm reading this wrong, as I am no dyno expert.

I'll be honest, I have the full stage 3 package, with 93 octane, including the midpipe, and I had to put 305 Yokohamas on my rears and still have wheel spin. This car is fast as hell and I'm able to run even laps with a 458 Ferrari on the race track. As they say, maybe it's the Indian, not the arrows. I'm still 100% satisfied with my tune, would recommend the exhaust and ALL the suspension work first, but you get the full experience with the entire package.

I'm just disappointed about the abandonment of the stage 4 tune. I guess my build is complete until the next one.

[desertfox73]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

The short of it is, we stand behind our claims and numbers advertised for the stage 3 M3/M4 kit. I will not set a precedent that will force Dinan to individually prove each and every one of our products to the masses via some independent study group which is what is being demanded however. I do not see the same demands being laden upon other vendors of parts. If a realistic discussion can be had it needs to be based upon consistent data so that all concerns can be addressed. Dynos are tools, nothing more.

I am not a dyno aficionado, nor an engineer, and have never claimed to be so I am not the person that can properly field those conversations. That is a tech support function as they deal with that side of it every day and are much more knowledgeable then I will ever be. If you’d like to have a more in-depth discussion, I encourage anyone that has concerns to call them and discuss or alternatively send the data to me so I can pass it along. Please have all applicable data on-hand though which would include:

• Before and After Dynos each with the below info
• Make/Type of Dyno
• Environmental Conditions (humidity, temp, etc)
• Volumetric rating of the cooling tools
• Correction factor if any
• Pass # of run in question or amount of time passed in between passes.
• Transmission of car
• Gear used
• Fuel (91, 93, other)
• COMPLETE list of mods
• Whether traction control was completely turned off or not
• Does the dyno run provider sell their own tune? (You wouldn't believe how many times this has been exposed as the culprit by just going to an independent dyno facility with no ties to a tune)

When we have proper data we can assess each customers concerns on an individual basis.

Not a great response from an engineering company...

You don't feel obligated to back up your claims with independently verified data? You're ENGINEERS...actual data should be the first thing you present when making a claim.

It doesn't matter what people expect from other companies. This is about what you have claimed, and refuse to back up with (what should be) easily obtainable proof. Don't deflect.

As for "I am not...an engineer", that's a total cop out, but fine. Although maybe you should put one on the forums to answer these questions like other companies do, lincluding VF Engineering. Then there's a truly transparent conversation. And look what that's done for their business.

I don't have a dog in this, as I don't have any Dinan gear. But I came within a heartbeat of pulling the trigger on the Stage 3 package today with an installer in West Hills, only to read this thread and find out that the package is an unsubstantiated claim at best. At worst it's an empty, expensive promise.

[hova00]

Originally Posted by desertfox73

Not a great response from an engineering company...

You don't feel obligated to back up your claims with independently verified data? You're ENGINEERS...actual data should be the first thing you present when making a claim.

It doesn't matter what people expect from other companies. This is about what you have claimed, and refuse to back up with (what should be) easily obtainable proof. Don't deflect.

As for "I am not...an engineer", that's a total cop out, but fine. Although maybe you should put one on the forums to answer these questions like other companies do, lincluding VF Engineering. Then there's a truly transparent conversation. And look what that's done for their business.

I don't have a dog in this, as I don't have any Dinan gear. But I came within a heartbeat of pulling the trigger on the Stage 3 package today with an installer in West Hills, only to read this thread and find out that the package is an unsubstantiated claim at best. At worst it's an empty, expensive promise.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Dinan do you understand it is your obligation to prove that your claims are real and repeatable.

The list of bullet points you made should be the info you are providing to us not the other way around.

[JoM3z]

My thoughts exactly, I have been away from this forum and to come back to this response from Dinan is laughable. There are a bunch of independent Dyno that has been posted on here, you as the Engineers need to prove to us the buyers that the Tune you are selling are within the acceptable margin of error of your HP/TRQ claims. Totally not acceptable to deflect the issue at hand.

Originally Posted by hova00

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Dinan do you understand it is your obligation to prove that your claims are real and repeatable.

The list of bullet points you made should be the info you are providing to us not the other way around.

[euro*]

Looks like Dinan lost quite a few potential clients, including me! And they don't even seem to care smh...

[M3anPower]

Originally Posted by euro*

Looks like Dinan lost quite a few potential clients, including me! And they don't even seem to care smh...

True, I was going to go safe with 2017 competition package and get stage 3 Dinan. After reading these kinds of threads especially this and saw the fact that Dinan didn't back up there claims I moved on. My money will stay with me until someone proves reliability and gain in long term.

[apgawlf9196]

Has anyone installed the heat exchanger on a Xpel wrapped car?

Given that the bumper needs to be removed, I just want to make sure there are no issues (I don't see any).

[packet.pilot]

As the BMW factory DME maps change over time with more recent I-STEPs, I'm curious as to whether Dinan_Engineering thinks that customer dyno disparity could be due to differing software versions on the DMEs. Then again, since this is a piggyback, perhaps this doesn't matter whatsoever.

Also, it's interesting to note the disparity between this thread and others where criticism of site sponsors gets censored. I commend Dinan_Engineering for answering the hard questions, as opposed to campaigning for censorship, as other vendors in the same space do when asked to demonstrate some degree of accountability. This makes me very happy to be a Dinan customer.

[Ilikemike]

Originally Posted by packet.pilot

As the BMW factory DME maps change over time with more recent I-STEPs, I'm curious as to whether Dinan_Engineering thinks that customer dyno disparity could be due to differing software versions on the DMEs. Then again, since this is a piggyback, perhaps this doesn't matter whatsoever.

Also, it's interesting to note the disparity between this thread and others where criticism of site sponsors gets censored. I commend Dinan_Engineering for answering the hard questions, as opposed to campaigning for censorship, as other vendors in the same space do when asked to demonstrate some degree of accountability. This makes me very happy to be a Dinan customer.

Is that true?
Someone needs to supply/buy the popular software 'tunes, probably 6 or 8 out there, (I don't know how many), and test them on the same day and dyno and then publish the results... A lot of the criticism of Dinan does sound like 'fake news' to me but there is no way to tell for sure.... I'm not buying JB4 or AA or any other tune because of the negative information about Dinan (or disinformation) I'm just not buying anything... Some people (me) just need a warranty and are not willing to 'play around' with 90K without it...