S55: back to tradition or even further from it?

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

how much more wrong can you be??

the v8 was lighter than the i6...so the weight was EVERYWHERE ELSE.

Not exactly:

•22 pounds / 10 kilograms lighter than S65 V8 predecessor engine

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=923203

[mikelowery]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

it sounds like a muscle car....doesn't sound very good to be honest. And YES i've driven a few E9X M3s...i felt the engine was very very lazy until you get to higher revs---besides if there is a V8 in an M3.....that means the car has become waaaaaaaaaaay too heavy.....which the E9X was...

i think what people like you dont understand is this.

not everyone wants a small car with a small little engine in it. some people want a car to sound great, look great, and perform good enough. thats right there is a lot of the M3 population.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Not exactly:

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=923203

I think he was talking about the S54. The S65 was 33 lbs lighter that the S54.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by mikelowery

i think what people like you dont understand is this.

not everyone wants a small car with a small little engine in it. some people want a car to sound great, look great, and perform good enough. thats right there is a lot of the M3 population.

The M3 is suppose to be a small car with a "small" engine in it though. That's what made the M3 famous.

[Never Convicted]

Originally Posted by mikelowery

i think what people like you dont understand is this.

not everyone wants a small car with a small little engine in it. some people want a car to sound great, look great, and perform good enough. thats right there is a lot of the M3 population.

Zackly! Who would ever buy a performance car for performance? MUCH more important that it look cute and sound mean.

[BMW M3 CRT]

Originally Posted by Boss330

Not exactly:



http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=923203

Sure that this are the numbers for the complete engine with all cooling and plumping ... I heard the brutto weight for the S55 was 205kg !?

[schoy]

Originally Posted by Jockey

The M3 is suppose to be a small car with a "small" engine in it though. That's what made the M3 famous.

I thought what made the M3 famous was that it was one of the highest-performing cars that met homogolation requirements for production-based touring car racing in its class.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by schoy

I thought what made the M3 famous was that it was one of the highest-performing cars that met homogolation requirements for production-based touring car racing.

Correct. And guess what, it was a small car with a small engine in it.

And if that's not the case, I wonder why people are constantly bitching how the car keeps getting bigger and heavier. Hmmm...

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by BMW M3 CRT

Sure that this are the numbers for the complete engine with all cooling and plumping ... I heard the brutto weight for the S55 was 205kg !?

I don't know if it's with or whithout ancilliaries such as turbos, but surely not including cooling and plumbing. It's not unlikely that the engines are 10kg lighter, but that ancilliaries are heavier and thereby probably ending up at no total weight loss on the complete engine installation.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

so when you pull me over and I'm driving the old e90m around, my first comment will be "im on my way to get the NEW SHIT!!!"

I don't pull over ///M's.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Jockey

Boost can be applied linearly as well. It all depends on the programming.

Maybe it can but that would not result in linear power delivery, it would be exponential and would also negate most of the FI advantages with big low to mid-end torque. For linear power you would need constant boost through the rev range which isn't possible without something like electric assisted large ( if you want a high rpm engine ) blowers.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by solstice

Maybe it can but that would not result in linear power delivery, it would be exponential and would also negate most of the FI advantages with big low to mid-end torque. For linear power you would need constant boost through the rev range which isn't possible without something like electric assisted large ( if you want a high rpm engine ) blowers.

Right. So wouldn't that mean that since we got max torque on tap @ 1500 RPM, the turbos are already producing full boost? Hence, we will feel a linear power delivery? (I'm not too worried about the 7-800 RPM between idle and full boost) Then you throw in the added benefit of anti-lag and the turbos won't spool down during spirited driving.

What I was simply pointing out and you actually helped me make my argument (thank you btw) that we're not quite sure what this engine will "feel" like. Unless you've spent time in a WRC car, you don't know how an FI engine with anti-lag will feel (neither have I).

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Jockey

Right. So wouldn't that mean that since we got max torque on tap @ 1500 RPM, the turbos are already producing full boost? Hence, we will feel a linear power delivery? (I'm not too worried about the 7-800 RPM between idle and full boost) Then you throw in the added benefit of anti-lag and the turbos won't spool down during spirited driving.

What I was simply pointing out and you actually helped me make my argument (thank you btw) that we're not quite sure what this engine will "feel" like. Unless you've spent time in a WRC car, you don't know how an FI engine with anti-lag will feel (neither have I).

Correct you will have linear power when you are at full boost but that's only up to 5500 rpm. After that boost falls off in a linear manner giving you a flat power curve which isn't that bad but it isn't like a NA engine with good breathing as M3 engines in the past that are linear close to all the way to redline. Hence the theoretical deviation in linearity. Now, I agree that we don't know to what extent this is subjectively felt or is an issue at all while driving ( I certainly hope not since I'm buying the car ) but I still chalk this down as a deviation from M3 engine history based on objective theory.

The anti-lag system is only active in certain scenarios and I think that's not enough to say all lag is gone all the time. Trust me when I say I wish it was.

We have now pretty much connected to where the seemingly endless arguing between Boss330 and Swamp2 about jerk starts so if you're still interested in more details, science, videos, oracles tea leaf or anything under the sun on this subject head over there. 2nd time I'm done here, this time it's final.

[basscadet]

This is the first time I have ever heard of anyone referring to a 3.0 Turbo engine making as much power as the last generation Mustang as "beast mode".

[pkimM3r]

Uhhhh beast mode STYLE engines such as power delivery (nothing and then all of a sudden everything; no in betweens)....learn how to comprehend.

Also, in terms of linearity, what about throttle response/control?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by basscadet

This is the first time I have ever heard of anyone referring to a 3.0 Turbo engine making as much power as the last generation Mustang as "beast mode".

Autobots.....transform and rolllllll out!

[iPhone vs Android]

I think to answer the question in the OP, the S55 is going back to the tradition. As much as I like S65, I think it was the engine that went far from the M tradition more than anything else.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Autobots.....transform and rolllllll out!

We are not camaros!!

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

We are not camaros!!

[pkimM3r]

Although with these new colors they may become transformers soon. Because a certain studio loves making these movies over and over again.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Although with these new colors they may become transformers soon. Because a certain studio loves making these movies over and over again.

I've heard that the next movie is rumored to have an X5 transformer. ￿

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I've heard that the next movie is rumored to have an X5 transformer. ￿

Will research on Tuesday.