M3/M4 to Get Steel Driveshafts Beginning Nov. 2017. Sales top 68,000 to date.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by minn19

Sorry dude, I really like your posts and I was just joking for the most part, but some of you guys are really grasping at straws here. Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.

Naw man, I am so offended now.



Kidding

[teemolovesm4]

Who cares, the new M3 and M4 doesn't keep its value anyways(at least in North America).

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by teemolovesm4

Who cares, the new M3 and M4 doesn't keep its value anyways(at least in North America).

My '15 was $60.4k before tax via euro delivery and I got $51.5k for it after about 20 months. 86% of value retained in that time frame is fine by me

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

My '15 was $60.4k before tax via euro delivery and I got $51.5k for it after about 20 months. 86% of value retained in that time frame is fine by me

You got a discounted price via euro delivery and kept the car less than 2 years. Not exactly a good example.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

Heheheh that was totally a troll move. Sorry.

As a more concrete statement: I'm tired of people referring to a modified bedplate as some sort of known improvement. All we know is it was modified; I've seen no information on WHAT those modifications were or why they are concretely better. Did the engine gain 10 pounds from a strengthened bedplate? Who knows.

The SMALL spate of spun crank hubs on tuned vehicles appears to have died out. People think that's bedplate related. Why? There are still a shit ton of cars produced pre-modified-bedplate that simply stopped having spun crank hubs at the reported levels we saw in 2016 (which were like ~6-10 unique cases total). Why? No answers.

There was the normal human reaction of: fear over spun crank hubs driven by tuned cars having issues ---> BMW modifies the bedplate for an unclear reason ----> after the modified bedplate almost no reports of spun crank hub = bedplate must have fixed it. But the vast majority of cars produced at that time were still on the original bedplate and reports still ceased. So was it actually a tuning issue? Who knows!

...

Anyway, end rant. On topic: Until I see an actual weight gain of the steel CF driveshaft I'm not going to seriously consider this a downgrade.

A narrower driveshaft means the polar moment of inertia is reduced and it is easier to spin than a wider driveshaft. If BMW decreased the width to a greater degree than the increased driveshaft weight impacts, then the new steel driveshaft would conceivably be more responsive than the CF version.

Do we have any of that information yet? No. So let's not react so negatively just yet.

It is not only about rotating mass, even if I seriously doubt the smaller dimensions of the steel driveshaft will offset the added weight in terms of polar moment of inertia. The CF driveshaft is a one piece unit and does not have a support bearing and a CV joint in the middle like it is needed for steel shaft. The CF shaft is also quite stiffer than a steel one which means a more direct response from the engine to the drive wheels (less elasticity in the drivetrain). As many have said, most will not notice the difference on the daily drive. However, the F8X is a sum of many parts that makes it a whole.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

It is not only about rotating mass, even if I seriously doubt the smaller dimensions of the steel driveshaft will offset the added weight in terms of polar moment of inertia. The CF driveshaft is a one piece unit and does not have a support bearing and a CV joint in the middle like it is needed for steel shaft. The CF shaft is also quite stiffer than a steel one which means a more direct response from the engine to the drive wheels (less elasticity in the drivetrain). As many have said, most will not notice the difference on the daily drive. However, the F8X is a sum of many parts that makes it a whole.

No doubt. My point was internet-forum-gnashing-of-teeth without any context besides a change in materials. This is the equivalent of choosing two different materials for your engine mounts - one being harder/more direct and one being softer/more isolated. Without any other context besides that if I said the M3 went from a very stiff engine mount to a liquid filled mount in order to isolate NVH from the engine, the M crowd would flip out - solely from a material change and without specific context.

Listen, I get to enjoy my CF driveshaft. I'm pro CF driveshaft. But that doesn't make the steel driveshaft car distinctly inferior.

[Thescout13]

This whole debate reminds be of:

[Kankles]

Oh the irony

https://mobile.twitter.com/BMWMotorr...337536/video/1

[M3Tooner]

I didn't read through all 300+ posts but wanted to point out that the steel driveshaft is a 2-piece design because it cannot be made small enough (diameter wise) if they made it as a single piece. There is a critical speed frequency requirement for any driveshafts to be outside of the driving speed range of the vehicle. In this case above at least 180mph or whatever the ungoverned VMax for this car is.

For a 1-piece steel driveshaft to meet the CS frequency requirement, it would end up being a lot larger in diameter than the CFRP driveshaft and there is just not enough packaging space. However, two short steel shafts, no problem in making them a lot smaller in diameter, thus gaining some space for the required new emissions filters in the exhaust system.

As far as whether one can feel the difference, I think if you are a seasoned evaluator of driveline NVH, you would potentially be able to feel the center bearing wobble as it tries to straighten out under high torque. The 2nd order u-joint disturbance forces are proportional to the angle of the joint. More angle = more Force. All this is wasted energy that is not being transmitted to the rear wheels, however small the amount is. It is what makes this car feel so damn connected from your right foot to the rear wheels. Plus, there is so much more weight in the 2-piece steel design due to having to carry a center bearing, extra u-joint, and just being steel is heavier than CFRP.

I totally agree with the above comment of

the F8X is a sum of many parts that makes it a whole.

It's like death by a thousand cuts.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by E39hijinks

My best guess is an all of the above approach.

No real reason to have it on the standard M3. M3 has always done fine with a steel driveshaft. Also for a high-volume car (relatively speaking), it doesn't make sense to have an expensive CF driveshaft for small gains, which likely won't be perceived in the real world in 99% of driving, on a 3,600 lb car.

So cut up front costs, cut warranty claims, and the only thing the customer will really be missing out on is bragging rights.

They have made 68,000 and gotta be on pace for about 90 to 100,000 by the end of the model run. That's a lotta M cars.

I think they used to say that M cars are around 5 percent of regular production. the F80 and 82 in comparison are mass produced lease mobiles...

[zzirgrizz]

So if I factory order an M3 in mid October would I be getting one with a steel driveshaft or carbon fiber?

[Parabolica]

Originally Posted by DonutRanger

So if I factory order an M3 in mid October would I be getting one with a steel driveshaft or carbon fiber?

Cf.

[al_bundy]

Originally Posted by Parabolica

Cf.

What if I order a car now, which could technically be slotted in October production, but they claim they need many weeks of delay because of provisioning of a special colour? I guess we will get "the shaft" in those cases?

[Bluex]

As I cruise to work today, truly rolling, I can't help consider:

My 2015 (build date 4/15) has that CF Driveshaft (fuck me, I can feel the difference), has the original Sakhir Orange with the original gold flecks from some Japanese plant (not this bullshit Sakhir Orange II with different flecks of gold, whatever and wherever the eff that is), has the magnesium oil pan, hockey stick tail-lights, euro-coded adaptive led's (screw the moose), and 58.3 system software (you know, the one that totally changed the suspension but still before they began to suck the balls out of the throttle response) and it feels good.

I'm 150% sure that everyone on the road beside me here knows all the above as well. Yeah, they know it. Haters.

And i'm 200% sure that when I trade it in and mention all the above BALLER features my car has, i'm totally going to make my nut. I'm going to make BANK bro.

Damn it feels good to be a gangsta........



*edited 'cause I forgot my hockey stick tail lights. Can't forget them.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by Bluex

has the original Sakhir Orange with the original gold flecks from some Japanese plant (not this bullshit Sakhir Orange II with different flecks of gold, whatever and wherever the eff that is), has the magnesium oil pan

SO/SOII both have the same Merck Iriodin Gold Pigment. The only difference is SOII Pigment is supplied by Merck's new Germany plant since the Fukushima Location has been compromised by radiation. Valspar Automotive mixies it all together.

The magnesium pan is smaller in capacity and limited to 1.2g peak lateral load. The Aluminum pan has more available capacity and is baffled internally for 1.6g lateral load.

[Thescout13]

Originally Posted by al_bundy

What if I order a car now, which could technically be slotted in October production, but they claim they need many weeks of delay because of provisioning of a special colour? I guess we will get "the shaft" in those cases?

possibly

[Bluex]

Originally Posted by lemetier

SO/SOII both have the same Merck Iriodin Gold Pigment. The only difference is SOII Pigment is supplied by Merck's new Germany plant since the Fukushima Location has been compromised by radiation. Valspar Automotive mixies it all together.

The magnesium pan is smaller in capacity and limited to 1.2g peak lateral load. The Aluminum pan has more available capacity and is baffled internally for 1.6g lateral load.

I couldn't *possibly* have been any more tongue-in-cheek with my post above and took a bunch of bullshit liberties with my statements....many of which were based on stupid arguments that people had way back in the day.

But hey, good info.......I need to put winky emoji's in my posts more.

Incidentally, i'm about due for my noon 1.6g lateral load.

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by Bluex

I couldn't *possibly* have been any more tongue-in-cheek with my post above and took a bunch of bullshit liberties with my statements....many of which were based on stupid arguments that people had way back in the day.

But hey, good info.......I need to put winky emoji's in my posts more.

Incidentally, i'm about due for my noon 1.6g lateral load.

I prefer my load deliveries to be vertical. I'm also fine with just 1.0 g, less splashy

[Gibson6594]

Originally Posted by lemetier

SO/SOII both have the same Merck Iriodin Gold Pigment. The only difference is SOII Pigment is supplied by Merck's new Germany plant since the Fukushima Location has been compromised by radiation. Valspar Automotive mixies it all together.

The magnesium pan is smaller in capacity and limited to 1.2g peak lateral load. The Aluminum pan has more available capacity and is baffled internally for 1.6g lateral load.

ERRONEOUS!!!





Just kidding, what the hell do I know.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by lemetier

SO/SOII both have the same Merck Iriodin Gold Pigment. The only difference is SOII Pigment is supplied by Merck's new Germany plant since the Fukushima Location has been compromised by radiation . Valspar Automotive mixies it all together.

What a missed opportunity: that Fuky nuke gold probably glows like a muthafucker

[Gibson6594]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

What a missed opportunity: that Fuky nuke gold probably glows like a muthafucker

Sakhiroshima Orange III

[Graves]

Emailed my salesman who is in Germany and is going to get some new updated information for us concerning orders from this point forward up to November. Meaning, when is the NLT date to order and still receive the CF DS versus the steel one. Hopefully I will have some new information for you all here shortly.