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      03-19-2014, 08:56 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by starbai View Post
seriously its getting really old. Dont like the 4 series. dont buy it, don't see why everyone's panties are so sandy beacuse of this. Only issue i can see is it pushing resales of 3 series sedans down becuase while people may not be willing to pay for a new 4GC over a 3 new, used, i've a feeling people will be clamoring for them.
Cheap m3 used? Cool...
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      03-19-2014, 09:00 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Mako View Post
Do you have any clue how companies work? BMW would be in a lot of trouble right now if they didn't diversify like they have. They need to be able to expand each platform and milk them as much as they can to justify the costs of the new models and tech development. They need to keep up with competition to stay in business. Every car company is now diluted by purists point of view, including Porsche.
Porsche has made a few billion in profit the last few years, despite the so called purist dillusion. By the way, I'd say Porsche isn't doing that at all. The truck models came around 12 years ago. The mid engined Cayman came about 10. The Panamera was released in 2009. The 911s now have EPS, among other things that piss purists off. Before all of this, all Porsche's were air cooled. Not a single one is now. If you were a 911 driver in the late 80s or early 90s and an ardent purist, your SOL with today's Porsche.

BMW wouldnt be in a lot of trouble, either. They've had profits and good sales numbers for a long time now, including the years when they didn't have such a diverse model lineup. I do agree that the company has taken on a massive technical, accounting and managerial challenge with the new models. However, I'm not convinved that the cost of all this extra engineering production, marketing and model differentiation is going to be covered by the sales of each model. I'm even less convinved that these models will pay for the new direction and required engineering work, in aggregate. I'm more convinced that BMW just wants to dominate the market, in every possible niche or corner. Never mind that the sales numbers for something esoteric like a 5 series GT or GC may not justify the costs. I just can't understand the sedan vs gran coupe decision. Aside from the slight aesthetic differences, they are the same car. I just don't see the business case for such a model.
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      03-19-2014, 09:04 AM   #25
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      03-19-2014, 09:31 AM   #26
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I just can't understand the sedan vs gran coupe decision. Aside from the slight aesthetic differences, they are the same car. I just don't see the business case for such a model.
Competition. They need cars to go against the Benz CLS and the Audi A7 (6er GC category). The 4GC will go up against the Audi A5 sportback in this case.

As for the GT lineup, I just blame us Americans. I'd much rather have more powerful wagon options than the current useless GT configs here. Shame that there is still a horrible stigma with wagons in the US.
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      03-19-2014, 09:35 AM   #27
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I read this last week somewhere, but I can't remember who said it.

The previous bar to having so many different types or variations of cars was the cost of tooling each and every assembly line- typically every car model had its own line and very few cars (except GM clones) shared a line. GM tried to do this with Cadillac, Buick and Chevy- Cimarron, Sky lark and Cavalier respectively. This failed miserably because the Cimarron's quality was horrible.

In today's times, you can get multiple cars off one line with very little price differences. Now, BMW can do this with the 3, 3 GT, 4, 4GC. They can charge a premium for the 3GT, 4 and 4 GS. However, they all play in a similar price playground. There is a high quality requirement for all cars- plus the engine/power trains are all compatible.

If Mary only likes the 3, Billy only likes the 3GT, Sally only likes the 4 and Jimmy only likes the 4 GC- How many cars will be sold? Previously, they'd only have 1 sale for the original 3- now they have 4 sales- Three of the sales at premium value- for minor tooling differences. Everyone is happy. Including BMW finance guys.

So stop complaining about why so many variants and give me a M4 GC. It looks damn good.
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      03-19-2014, 09:42 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by danniexi View Post
Competition. They need cars to go against the Benz CLS and the Audi A7 (6er GC category). The 4GC will go up against the Audi A5 sportback in this case.

As for the GT lineup, I just blame us Americans. I'd much rather have more powerful wagon options than the current useless GT configs here. Shame that there is still a horrible stigma with wagons in the US.
Well then, riddle me this. Why have an A7, when it's just an A6 with a fastback rear end?
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      03-19-2014, 09:45 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palpatine_us View Post
I read this last week somewhere, but I can't remember who said it.

The previous bar to having so many different types or variations of cars was the cost of tooling each and every assembly line- typically every car model had its own line and very few cars (except GM clones) shared a line. GM tried to do this with Cadillac, Buick and Chevy- Cimarron, Sky lark and Cavalier respectively. This failed miserably because the Cimarron's quality was horrible.

In today's times, you can get multiple cars off one line with very little price differences. Now, BMW can do this with the 3, 3 GT, 4, 4GC. They can charge a premium for the 3GT, 4 and 4 GS. However, they all play in a similar price playground. There is a high quality requirement for all cars- plus the engine/power trains are all compatible.

If Mary only likes the 3, Billy only likes the 3GT, Sally only likes the 4 and Jimmy only likes the 4 GC- How many cars will be sold? Previously, they'd only have 1 sale for the original 3- now they have 4 sales- Three of the sales at premium value- for minor tooling differences. Everyone is happy. Including BMW finance guys.

So stop complaining about why so many variants and give me a M4 GC. It looks damn good.
I don't have a complaint. I'm surprised that there is actual demand for such variants, since I see little difference between the coupes and the GCs. However, if the actuaries and analysis that work for BMW see a difference, then demand is there.
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      03-19-2014, 09:51 AM   #30
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Am I the only one that says NO to an M4GC? I think the M6GC is dead sexy but the M4 is too bulbous as a 4 door. I think an MSport 435i is good enough for the 4 series GC platform.
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      03-19-2014, 10:00 AM   #31
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Are renders really necessary any more when we all know way before what it is going to look like?
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      03-19-2014, 10:07 AM   #32
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Just do an M3 wagon instead
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      03-19-2014, 10:27 AM   #33
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why are people posting like this is a sure thing? not a single test mule has been spoted yet. I think this is one time they won't bring out an M model because they feel the M3/M4 coupe have it covered. Personally I would pay $2,000 extra for the M4 GC over the M3, at the loaded prices of M3/M4s what is an extra $2K for a better looking car.

Its just strange to me that they wouldn't make the 3/4 series flagship car in full M form.
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      03-19-2014, 10:50 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonjt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
Do you have any clue how companies work? BMW would be in a lot of trouble right now if they didn't diversify like they have. They need to be able to expand each platform and milk them as much as they can to justify the costs of the new models and tech development. They need to keep up with competition to stay in business. Every car company is now diluted by purists point of view, including Porsche.
Porsche has made a few billion in profit the last few years, despite the so called purist dillusion. By the way, I'd say Porsche isn't doing that at all. The truck models came around 12 years ago. The mid engined Cayman came about 10. The Panamera was released in 2009. The 911s now have EPS, among other things that piss purists off. Before all of this, all Porsche's were air cooled. Not a single one is now. If you were a 911 driver in the late 80s or early 90s and an ardent purist, your SOL with today's Porsche.

BMW wouldnt be in a lot of trouble, either. They've had profits and good sales numbers for a long time now, including the years when they didn't have such a diverse model lineup. I do agree that the company has taken on a massive technical, accounting and managerial challenge with the new models. However, I'm not convinved that the cost of all this extra engineering production, marketing and model differentiation is going to be covered by the sales of each model. I'm even less convinved that these models will pay for the new direction and required engineering work, in aggregate. I'm more convinced that BMW just wants to dominate the market, in every possible niche or corner. Never mind that the sales numbers for something esoteric like a 5 series GT or GC may not justify the costs. I just can't understand the sedan vs gran coupe decision. Aside from the slight aesthetic differences, they are the same car. I just don't see the business case for such a model.
I think this theory if flawed. If they wanted to dominate every niche then why would they not bring the 335 wagon and even an M3 wagon? They bring the low volume 5GT that very few want but not a manual 335 touring...? I don't get it. If your going to produce for the masses shouldn't that mean more for the purist too? It doesn't seem to be going that way.
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      03-19-2014, 10:51 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by gvega702 View Post
I think this theory if flawed. If they wanted to dominate every niche then why would they not bring the 335 wagon and even an M3 wagon? They bring the low volume 5GT that very few want but not a manual 335 touring...? I don't get it. If your going to produce for the masses shouldn't that mean more for the purist too? It doesn't seem to be going that way.
the US is not their only market
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      03-19-2014, 11:13 AM   #36
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Never mind this, just make a Touring!
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      03-19-2014, 11:13 AM   #37
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I'll take one to go please
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      03-19-2014, 11:24 AM   #38
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the guy who does this got amazing skills!

BUT i don't like the look of this, too fatty.
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      03-19-2014, 11:27 AM   #39
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Why the 4GC? Because Audi has the 5 door A5, that's why.
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      03-19-2014, 12:11 PM   #40
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I think i would take a M4 GC over the M3 personally... i love this, I used to have a hatchback and it was one of the most practical cars i have ever owned.
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      03-19-2014, 12:18 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonjt View Post
Well then, riddle me this. Why have an A7, when it's just an A6 with a fastback rear end?
That's a stupid question. Why have x and not y?

Because they SELL. They make money. What else do car companies want?
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      03-19-2014, 12:26 PM   #42
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I'd rather get the m3 sedan
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      03-19-2014, 12:28 PM   #43
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For all the variants you'd think it wouldn't be that tough to produce a wagon...

And they'd sell. The watered down versions we get don't even raise my pulse. Sure they can tack Mperformance stuff all over it but its still down 200 horsepower. An M3 wagon would be in my driveway as soon as I could get my hands on it if BMW was brave enough to make it.

A Colnago looks great on the roof of an M3. Would look even sicker on the roof of a M3 wagon!
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      03-19-2014, 12:59 PM   #44
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Even if they don't do this someone will probably do their own M4 GC and it'll look sick.
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