July 2014 BBC Top Gear - BMW M4 vs. C7 Corvette Stingray

[Keto]

Originally Posted by KTM505SX

The turbos really kill the character and emotion of this new M3,sad times for the real M3 fan really,never thought it would come to this!!

Originally Posted by M3OW

You may want to becareful with what u say around new f8x owners. Some get very defensive and insecure. Also a lot of new m3 owners are coming from 335's so they will never understand what you mean by character and emotion from previous m3's.

As an owner of an E46, E92 and F80 M3 I can say this is dumb.

The E90/2 owners who have never owned another M3 understand insecurity to be sure -- they threadcrap all over the place to compensate for it. Just save up the pennies and buy a new one, people.

[M3OW]

Originally Posted by KTM505SX

Right on! I have a deposit on a '15 99GT3 allocation and more than likely I would not have stepped up to a 150K dollar car,if BMW delivered this M4 car with a 4.4L 8400rpm V8.But it is what it is and I'm going back to Porsche for my next fun car once again(used to have a 997.1gt3).Just not sure if keeping the M3 will make much sense when there is a GT3 available for driving fun.My DD is a 2013 all option Ford Raptor

I briefly owned a second generation 997 gt3 and it is not possible to daily drive that's for sure. I know the 991's are way more refined and you don't have to deal with a clutch that makes your left leg twice as big as your right but I highly suggest having a sporty 4 door to have as a dd.

[ReddyFreddy]

Originally Posted by badbeef

I will refrain from commenting too much until I drive one...but the design elements of the car aren't speaking to me on paper. And the tech isn't all that special either.

Seems like a 335 M package more than a full blown M3. Not special enough.

I have the new M4. I have owned an E92, M3. The E92 was and is a fatastic vehicle. But, I can tell you, the new M4 is way better. I have driven the new 335i M Sport. The 335i M sport is a nice car, but it is NOT an M car. It's night and day. I dusted a guy in a Z06 3 times! The tech on the new car is nothing short of incredible! I am beyond impressed. The Stringray is nice, but, let's face it, it's a Chevrolet. It shouldn't be compared to a BMW. Cars to compare to the M4 are the C63 AMG, the RS5 and soon, the Lexus RC-F. GM has a very long way to go to make a comparable master piece. They get huge HP numbers using cubic capacity. Cars are about hidden architecture and intelligent engineering. Pound for pound, the M4 is out of an car GM makes league. BMW M4

[gthal]

Originally Posted by ReddyFreddy

I have the new M4. I have owned an E92, M3. The E92 was and is a fatastic vehicle. But, I can tell you, the new M4 is way better. I have driven the new 335i M Sport. The 335i M sport is a nice car, but it is NOT an M car. It's night and day. I dusted a guy in a Z06 3 times! The tech on the new car is nothing short of incredible! I am beyond impressed. The Stringray is nice, but, let's face it, it's a Chevrolet. It shouldn't be compared to a BMW. Cars to compare to the M4 are the C63 AMG, the RS5 and soon, the Lexus RC-F. GM has a very long way to go to make a comparable master piece. They get huge HP numbers using cubic capacity. Cars are about hidden architecture and intelligent engineering. Pound for pound, the M4 is out of an car GM makes league. BMW M4

Much of this is a complete load of utter bull crap... respectfully

The M4is NOT out of the C7's league. Not even close.

If you dusted a Z06 it's because they either didn't know you were racing or didn't know how to drive their MT car. The Z06 is a faster car than an M4 whichever way you cut it... track, straight line, doesn't matter.

I absolutely LOVE my M4 (moreso than my Stingray given its higher level of practicality and almost on par performance). However, I'm not blinded by a BMW badge either because I can say, from actual experience, that the Stingray will own an M4 on a track and with the right driver is faster in a straight line. Oh... while having an interior that is pretty close to being on par... while being less money.

Enough of the "it's just a Chev" load of BS... I'm sure some Porsche owners who are snobs say the same thing about BMW and they are just as wrong. Being a badge whore simply stops you from enjoying the MANY amazing cars out there from MANY auto manufacturers. When the C7 Z06 is released, there will be nothing BMW makes or has ever made that will come even remotely close to competing with it from a performance perspective... but it's just a Chevy so who cares, right?

There... I said it...

[Wes Howell]

The Z06 is definitely a faster car. I liked mine...

However, I don't feel the quality of the Vette, the interior, the tech, etc is comparable.
The engineering and design of the M4 is far superior IMO.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by e60cs5

The Z06 is definitely a faster car. I liked mine...

However, I don't feel the quality of the Vette, the interior, the tech, etc is comparable.
The engineering and design of the M4 is far superior IMO.

Have you driven a new C7? The interior and tech are comparable. The M4 is a slight notch up in both but only by a very, very small margin.

How about a traction system that adjusts to tire temp/grip as just one example of engineering/tech prowess of the C7? What about a magnetic suspension system that is so advanced it is licensed to and used by Ferrari? What about a car with a frame so advanced that it is stiffer as a targa than the previous version of the Z06 with a fixed roof? Just clarifying

Relative to quality... if squeaks and rattles are any indication, then the Stingray is better than a BMW. My Stingray was dead solid and quiet. My M4 is not so much... neither were either of my E92 M3's. Now, I do believe the quality of BMW is better (as it should be for a car that costs more) but the gap isn't what it use to be.

[Wes Howell]

Originally Posted by gthal

Have you driven a new C7? The interior and tech are comparable. The M4 is a slight notch up in both but very, very small margin.

How about a traction system that adjusts to tire temp/grip as just one example of engineering/tech prowess? A magnetic suspension system that is so advanced it is used by Ferrari? Just clarifying

Those are fair points. And I'm not a Vette hater. I guess if the C7 is just an amazing leap forward in every regard then maybe I'm missing something...but I don't think I can buy that. My Z06 lacked so much polish...lacked attention to detail in so many areas... It was fast around a track though.

The more I drove the Vette the less I liked it (as a DD) which is the exact opposite with my Bimmers. All the little touches and refinement are huge to me.

Are you saying you found your C7 to be as refined / polished as your M4?

[gthal]

Originally Posted by e60cs5

Those are fair points. And I'm not a Vette hater. I guess if the C7 is just an amazing leap forward in every regard then maybe I'm missing something...but I don't think I can buy that. My Z06 lacked so much polish...lacked attention to detail in so many areas... It was fast around a track though.

The more I drove the Vette the less I liked it (as a DD) which is the exact opposite with my Bimmers. All the little touches and refinement are huge to me.

Are you saying you found your C7 to be as refined / polished as your M4?

No, the C7 is not as polished and refined as the M4.

However, it is a quantum leap improvement in this regard over the C6. Considering the C7 is a sports car and the M4 is a luxury coupe built into a sports coupe, the polish/refinement gap is surprisingly very small.

I daily drove my C7 and never felt it lacked for refinement. They only thing it was missing was a back seat. It felt, subjectively, close to the C63/M4 in most areas of fit, finish and refinement... a slight step down but close. This could NOT be said of a C6.

There is a reason the C7 is getting unanimous and glowing praise by pretty much everyone that touches it... it is not the last gen Corvette.

Put another way.... if the F8X is a 20% improvement overall to the E9X, the C7 is a 50% improvement over the C6 in almost every way. GM has dramatically closed the gap whether someone BMW fans (not saying this is you) want to admit it or not. If I didn't need a back seat and if GM had offered a DCT, I would likely not have moved to an M4 as there wouldn't have been a compelling reason to do so. Having said that, the M4 is very much a stellar car that competes head to head with a true high performance sports car in almost every way... huge win for BMW. It just drives me nuts when folks discount the C7 because it is a GM... that's stupid...

[swanson]

Originally Posted by ReddyFreddy

I have the new M4. I have owned an E92, M3. The E92 was and is a fatastic vehicle. But, I can tell you, the new M4 is way better. I have driven the new 335i M Sport. The 335i M sport is a nice car, but it is NOT an M car. It's night and day. I dusted a guy in a Z06 3 times! The tech on the new car is nothing short of incredible! I am beyond impressed. The Stringray is nice, but, let's face it, it's a Chevrolet. It shouldn't be compared to a BMW. Cars to compare to the M4 are the C63 AMG, the RS5 and soon, the Lexus RC-F. GM has a very long way to go to make a comparable master piece. They get huge HP numbers using cubic capacity. Cars are about hidden architecture and intelligent engineering. Pound for pound, the M4 is out of an car GM makes league. BMW M4

You're a joke to even think that, never mind saying it. You really think that a compromise car like an M3/M4 that is based on an entry level DD is better then a Corvette? Are you high? BMW could put a giant pile of shit under the hood and most of you would bow down.

[alms21]

Originally Posted by ReddyFreddy

I have the new M4. I have owned an E92, M3. The E92 was and is a fatastic vehicle. But, I can tell you, the new M4 is way better. I have driven the new 335i M Sport. The 335i M sport is a nice car, but it is NOT an M car. It's night and day. I dusted a guy in a Z06 3 times! The tech on the new car is nothing short of incredible! I am beyond impressed. The Stringray is nice, but, let's face it, it's a Chevrolet. It shouldn't be compared to a BMW. Cars to compare to the M4 are the C63 AMG, the RS5 and soon, the Lexus RC-F. GM has a very long way to go to make a comparable master piece. They get huge HP numbers using cubic capacity. Cars are about hidden architecture and intelligent engineering. Pound for pound, the M4 is out of an car GM makes league. BMW M4

what a load of horseshit. Take the BMW Roundel out of your ass and wake up. BMW doesn't make a car that can touch a C6Z06, let alone the upcoming C7 Z06. Like others have said, if you "beat" a Z06 you either 1) dreamed it; 2) didn't realize he wasn't racing you or 3) hasn't a clue how to drive

[ReddyFreddy]

Originally Posted by swanson

You're a joke to even think that, never mind saying it. You really think that a compromise car like an M3/M4 that is based on an entry level DD is better then a Corvette? Are you high? BMW could put a giant pile of shit under the hood and most of you would bow down.

No need for insults. The M4 is based on an incredible car, the 4 series. It shares very little with the 4 series though. GM gets numbers using cubic capacity, not pure brain power. I think that GM can prove themselves by giving us a 3.8 liter motor to compete with the likes of the GT-R. This is my point, I'd sooner buy a Hyundai or better still, a Toyota than a GM product. And, I dusted a Z06 3 times in my M4. GM, a multinational NYSE publicly traded company makes garbage. Besides, I'm a young successful guy, corvettes are for retired successful plumbers. Notice, no insults from me to you personally. My grandpa has a Z06!

[ReddyFreddy]

Originally Posted by alms21

what a load of horseshit. Take the BMW Roundel out of your ass and wake up. BMW doesn't make a car that can touch a C6Z06, let alone the upcoming C7 Z06. Like others have said, if you "beat" a Z06 you either 1) dreamed it; 2) didn't realize he wasn't racing you or 3) hasn't a clue how to drive

Relax there. Easy now. I dusted the Z06 not once, not twice, but three times! Ok? Ill race my grandpa in a couple of weeks. He has a Z06. Corvettes are really for geezers anyways. If you're a geezer, I don't mean to insult you. It's a fact. Most corvette owners are old geezers.

[ReddyFreddy]

Originally Posted by gthal

Much of this is a complete load of utter bull crap... respectfully

The M4is NOT out of the C7's league. Not even close.

If you dusted a Z06 it's because they either didn't know you were racing or didn't know how to drive their MT car. The Z06 is a faster car than an M4 whichever way you cut it... track, straight line, doesn't matter.

I absolutely LOVE my M4 (moreso than my Stingray given its higher level of practicality and almost on par performance). However, I'm not blinded by a BMW badge either because I can say, from actual experience, that the Stingray will own an M4 on a track and with the right driver is faster in a straight line. Oh... while having an interior that is pretty close to being on par... while being less money.

Enough of the "it's just a Chev" load of BS... I'm sure some Porsche owners who are snobs say the same thing about BMW and they are just as wrong. Being a badge whore simply stops you from enjoying the MANY amazing cars out there from MANY auto manufacturers. When the C7 Z06 is released, there will be nothing BMW makes or has ever made that will come even remotely close to competing with it from a performance perspective... but it's just a Chevy so who cares, right?

There... I said it...

I guess I can reuse my response to Swanson et al to respond to your missive. No need for insults. The M4 is based on an incredible car, the 4 series. It shares very little with the 4 series though. GM gets numbers using cubic capacity, not pure brain power. I think that GM can prove themselves by giving us a 3.8 liter motor to compete with the likes of the GT-R. This is my point, I'd sooner buy a Hyundai or better still, a Toyota than a GM product. And, I dusted a Z06 3 times in my M4. GM, a multinational NYSE publicly traded company makes garbage. Besides, I'm a young successful guy, corvettes are for retired successful plumbers. Notice, no insults from me to you personally. My grandpa has a Z06!

[swanson]

Originally Posted by ReddyFreddy

No need for insults. The M4 is based on an incredible car, the 4 series. It shares very little with the 4 series though. GM gets numbers using cubic capacity, not pure brain power. I think that GM can prove themselves by giving us a 3.8 liter motor to compete with the likes of the GT-R. This is my point, I'd sooner buy a Hyundai or better still, a Toyota than a GM product. And, I dusted a Z06 3 times in my M4. GM, a multinational NYSE publicly traded company makes garbage. Besides, I'm a young successful guy, corvettes are for retired successful plumbers. Notice, no insults from me to you personally. My grandpa has a Z06!

Your grandpa is smart and you're delusional. No insults.

[ManAndMachine]

Originally Posted by M3OW

I briefly owned a second generation 997 gt3 and it is not possible to daily drive that's for sure. I know the 991's are way more refined and you don't have to deal with a clutch that makes your left leg twice as big as your right but I highly suggest having a sporty 4 door to have as a dd.

I daily drove mine for 18months from 2007 on,was not a problem with no kids and wife with an X5.Loved it actually,every drive was an event and a joy.

Now...I have two kids but also have a Ford Raptor super crew(mostly dd'er),along with a e350 soon to be x5(wife mobile)..

Work hard and drive what you want is my motto

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by swanson

Your grandpa is smart and you're delusional. No insults.

You are the epitome of a troll and a hater. You troll every thread in this forum, submitting hundreds of posts, tearing down BMW and the M3/4 and never provide anything constructive for anyone. Why don't you go to the MB forum or the Mustang forum or the Corvette forum or anywhere beside the BMW forum and spread your cheer there?

[M3OW]

Originally Posted by KTM505SX

I daily drove mine for 18months from 2007 on,was not a problem with no kids and wife with an X5.Loved it actually,every drive was an event and a joy.

Now...I have two kids but also have a Ford Raptor super crew(mostly dd'er),along with a e350 soon to be x5(wife mobile)..

Work hard and drive what you want is my motto

I miss my gt3 traded it in for an r8, for me it was too much for Los Angeles traffic plus the lack of front axle lift made it a real challenge getting in my garage. Now that I'm planning to sell my r8 to put some money in the bank I'm really having a hard time finding a replacement. I was hoping to buy the new m3 and only have 1 car but I'm really struggling with the idea of a turbo. I feel like I will miss the instant response and character of a high revving Na aspirated engine.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by gmcconn535

You are the epitome of a troll and a hater. You troll every thread in this forum, submitting hundreds of posts, tearing down BMW and the M3/4 and never provide anything constructive for anyone. Why don't you go to the MB forum or the Mustang forum or the Corvette forum or anywhere beside the BMW forum and spread your cheer there?

You dont like it, keep it moving.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by ReddyFreddy

I guess I can reuse my response to Swanson et al to respond to your missive. No need for insults. The M4 is based on an incredible car, the 4 series. It shares very little with the 4 series though. GM gets numbers using cubic capacity, not pure brain power. I think that GM can prove themselves by giving us a 3.8 liter motor to compete with the likes of the GT-R. This is my point, I'd sooner buy a Hyundai or better still, a Toyota than a GM product. And, I dusted a Z06 3 times in my M4. GM, a multinational NYSE publicly traded company makes garbage. Besides, I'm a young successful guy, corvettes are for retired successful plumbers. Notice, no insults from me to you personally. My grandpa has a Z06!

Not sure where you see insults in my post... I highlighted how what you said was bull crap... never said anything about you personally.

In any event, you talk about no need for insults and then stereotype and insult pretty much every Corvette owner... pot/kettle much?

P.S. As mentioned, you can comment about dusting a Z06 all you would like and it proves nothing to anyone who knows cars because they know that it isn't possible if the Z06 driver was trying. No insults.

[/// M sa]

Originally Posted by gthal

Have you driven a new C7? The interior and tech are comparable. The M4 is a slight notch up in both but only by a very, very small margin.

How about a traction system that adjusts to tire temp/grip as just one example of engineering/tech prowess of the C7? What about a magnetic suspension system that is so advanced it is licensed to and used by Ferrari? What about a car with a frame so advanced that it is stiffer as a targa than the previous version of the Z06 with a fixed roof? Just clarifying

Relative to quality... if squeaks and rattles are any indication, then the Stingray is better than a BMW. My Stingray was dead solid and quiet. My M4 is not so much... neither were either of my E92 M3's. Now, I do believe the quality of BMW is better (as it should be for a car that costs more) but the gap isn't what it use to be.

Who gives a shit, it's ugly and not practical unless your tracking your car every weekend. It's a great performance car but it's one ugly car like the caddy, mustang and almost all other American cars.

[/// M sa]

Originally Posted by M3OW

I miss my gt3 traded it in for an r8, for me it was too much for Los Angeles traffic plus the lack of front axle lift made it a real challenge getting in my garage. Now that I'm planning to sell my r8 to put some money in the bank I'm really having a hard time finding a replacement. I was hoping to buy the new m3 and only have 1 car but I'm really struggling with the idea of a turbo. I feel like I will miss the instant response and character of a high revving Na aspirated engine.

Instant response? Lmao dude have you test driven one?

[gthal]

Originally Posted by //M sa

Who gives a shit, it's ugly and not practical unless your tracking your car every weekend. It's a great performance car but it's one ugly car like the caddy, mustang and almost all other American cars.

It might be ugly to you... that's OK... but boy did it get a lot of hugely positive attention. The M4 gets a few nods, etc. The C7 was like a rockstar. I'm not sure everyone agrees with your perspective based on my experience with it. People who are not BMW nuts loved it and even lots of BMW nuts loved it (they might have been a bit more open minded towards non-German cars?). Regardless, your view is different and the Roundel glows ever brightly for you

I love the M4 (more than I loved the C7) but my views are not as lopsided as yours... oh well, different strokes for different folks.