Who has driven F8x on track in rain?

[Powerslide]

Back in October I drove my new car in the wet on the track - very interesting experience... it was a follow the leader type of event, so no passing allowed. The leader of my group was driving an F82, so by following the cars in front of me, I knew I could keep up as long as I didn't go any faster...

That being said, the car was able to maintain lateral grip in the corners on wet pavement much better than I would have thought (I am not a professional driver, so I never would have had the courage to go that fast had I not seen a car with identical tires/suspension setup, etc. being able to do the same).

The only thing I really noticed vs. the E9x in such conditions - I definitely had to modulate the power more or just wait a little longer into the turn to get on the power. However, although the first few turns that I took in the wet caused me to drift - I did find that easing off the throttle and countersteering allowed for easy corrections (I had traction control full on - I did not want to try MDM under such conditions since I don't believe I'm experienced enough for that).

Overall, after a few laps, I found that the car handled very well in the wet on the track, as long as you know where the limits are and don't get too aggressive on the throttle. Once I began straigtening out the wheel, however, I could nail the gas and accelerate up to about 95 mph on the straights before braking hard for a 35 mph reverse turn (steel brakes with Michelin Pilot Super Sports were great at reducing a lot of speed very quickly in the driving rain - I was very impressed).

Who else here has driven the F8x on the track in the wet? I'd be curious to hear your experiences.

[solstice]

I've driven the car to the limits of grip/traction with DSC on in the wet for extended periods and it's very impressive IMO. just as in the dry it feels significantly faster than the E9X since the grip seems higher and when fully hooked up it accelerates faster. It doesn't communicate as well though so it's not as intuitive/natural to me. It's not bad, it's very good just that my E90 M3 was truly telepathic here.

I.e it's faster in the wet as well but you need to work a tad more. A lot more if it's dark and rainy is my experience.

[dclowd9901]

Got a chance to do a little rainy track driving when we did our Euro Delivery, at Spa Francorchamps no less.

As you can see in the video, I could feel the understeer at times if I was too hot into a corner, but because I kept TCS on, the car refused to put any power down until I turned it at least to MDM. Which is when I almost slid out...

That said, I think the car is very manageable in the wet, as long as you're kind to the throttle. I'd keep it in sport or efficient throttle; sport + is too touchy to allow you any light control.

[solstice]

You lucky Bay Area people...calling that light drizzle rain Must been very tricky though, the immidiate transition from dry to wet in the same session, not only due to the adjustment required but also the usual release of grease when it start to get wet. Looks soooo much fun though!

[LDSM]

This is a great post, I mentioned something similar in another thread.

The power delivery of this engine is vastly different than most cars, since turbocharging is only now becoming more popular.
This requires a very different driving style than what most people are used to. Like taking corners in 3rd or 4th gear instead of 2nd, to cut down on torque and putting even more importance on throttle control.

Even professional F1 drivers had difficulties this year, switching from a N/A V8 to a Turbo V6. F1 cars don't have traction control and you can see even professionals sometimes have problems with low end power.

I think a lot of the bad press the F8x gets for it's handling and traction issues, is due to the driver, not the car. I don't blame them either, we're all so familiar with the linear power that comes from N/A engines, that's how we're used to driving, but we're just getting started with low RPM torque, just look at electric cars, the Tesla P85D has insane torque, instantly!

[onatuesday]

Powerslide, Sonoma or Laguna Seca?

[Maxis]

I like it... @ 5;35 holy shit...

[crypticc]

Originally Posted by dclowd9901

Got a chance to do a little rainy track driving when we did our Euro Delivery, at Spa Francorchamps no less.

As you can see in the video, I could feel the understeer at times if I was too hot into a corner, but because I kept TCS on, the car refused to put any power down until I turned it at least to MDM. Which is when I almost slid out...

That said, I think the car is very manageable in the wet, as long as you're kind to the throttle. I'd keep it in sport or efficient throttle; sport + is too touchy to allow you any light control.

Was the lead turning in very early?

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by dclowd9901

Got a chance to do a little rainy track driving when we did our Euro Delivery, at Spa Francorchamps no less.

As you can see in the video, I could feel the understeer at times if I was too hot into a corner, but because I kept TCS on, the car refused to put any power down until I turned it at least to MDM. Which is when I almost slid out...

That said, I think the car is very manageable in the wet, as long as you're kind to the throttle. I'd keep it in sport or efficient throttle; sport + is too touchy to allow you any light control.

That was a cool video. And yes - I kept DSC on the whole time in the driving rain - track instructors were good about reminding us to stay on the outside of the turns in the wet instead of clipping the apexes - the only times I had traction issues were when I either forgot to turn wide and clipped the apex as if it were dry, or alternatively when I tried to get back on the gas too early on corner exit.... After watching your video in the rain, I could see how MDM vs. full DSC makes a difference in the wet!

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Powerslide, Sonoma or Laguna Seca?

Man - I'd love to drive either track - but I live in the midwest!

[JeffM-Houston]

No tracks, but we've had 1 autocross in pretty heavy rain. I ran in Dynamic mode, and was pretty slow, although that was down to me taking it really easy. The car seemed to have plenty of grip and I never spun or left the track. The low powered FWD cars had a good day though.

[Bob Santorini]

Originally Posted by Devin.RS

This is a great post, I mentioned something similar in another thread.

The power delivery of this engine is vastly different than most cars, since turbocharging is only now becoming more popular.
This requires a very different driving style than what most people are used to. Like taking corners in 3rd or 4th gear instead of 2nd, to cut down on torque and putting even more importance on throttle control.

Even professional F1 drivers had difficulties this year, switching from a N/A V8 to a Turbo V6. F1 cars don't have traction control and you can see even professionals sometimes have problems with low end power.

I think a lot of the bad press the F8x gets for it's handling and traction issues, is due to the driver, not the car. I don't blame them either, we're all so familiar with the linear power that comes from N/A engines, that's how we're used to driving, but we're just getting started with low RPM torque, just look at electric cars, the Tesla P85D has insane torque, instantly!

I think you nailed it right on with this ^^^.

bob

[FTS]

Originally Posted by Devin.RS

Like taking corners in 3rd or 4th gear instead of 2nd, to cut down on torque and putting even more importance on throttle control.

I haven't been to the track yet, so no first-hand experience; however, looking at the torque curve of this car, wouldn't you think it would be the other way around?

If you take the higher gear and drop down to 2-4K RPM you are at max torque, of course depending on throttle position. If you take a gear that will give over 6K RPM you will be in the downward slope of the torque curve and possibly have less tendency to slip the tires? Am I missing something?

[dclowd9901]

Originally Posted by solstice

You lucky Bay Area people...calling that light drizzle rain Must been very tricky though, the immidiate transition from dry to wet in the same session, not only due to the adjustment required but also the usual release of grease when it start to get wet. Looks soooo much fun though!

Had to laugh. You're dead on about our notion of "rain". That said, I've also driven track days in the rain around here, so I know what kind of feels come out on the grease, and it was definitely more slick.

Interestingly, I wasn't able to tell the car was slipping from the steering as much as I was able to feel it in my ass. When people say you drive this car with your bottom, I think that's a very valid assessment.

Heh, "ass"essment.

[dim635csi]

dclowd9901, nice flick ! What is the clicking sound there, paddle shifters ?

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by FTS

I haven't been to the track yet, so no first-hand experience; however, looking at the torque curve of this car, wouldn't you think it would be the other way around?

If you take the higher gear and drop down to 2-4K RPM you are at max torque, of course depending on throttle position. If you take a gear that will give over 6K RPM you will be in the downward slope of the torque curve and possibly have less tendency to slip the tires? Am I missing something?

I know you have a metric ton more track experience than me but yes you are missing something imo

Power to the ground means more than peak torque, torque just means more power at a given rpm. At high rpm you would be putting a lot of power down and would have more traction issues as a result.

More tq just means the engine is more flexible and makes more power over a broader interval. Considering the power of the car and somewhat limited traction on corner exit, the car can perform well staying in higher gears so that you have to shift less and be less precise with throttle control

:twocents:

[minn19]

Originally Posted by dclowd9901

Got a chance to do a little rainy track driving when we did our Euro Delivery, at Spa Francorchamps no less.

As you can see in the video, I could feel the understeer at times if I was too hot into a corner, but because I kept TCS on, the car refused to put any power down until I turned it at least to MDM. Which is when I almost slid out...

That said, I think the car is very manageable in the wet, as long as you're kind to the throttle. I'd keep it in sport or efficient throttle; sport + is too touchy to allow you any light control.

Very cool video. Interesting you felt like you were going to still lose it in MDM mode. Seems opposite of people here are saying that it cuts in to fast on US spec cars. Did you feel like it would of let you spin out or did it cut in and stop the slide?

I liked your quick narration during the slide

OT. What made you drive up to that track? Cool to see a different track posted than the usual ED ones such as Nurburgring etc. and before anybody jumps on me there is obviously nothing wrong with Nurburigring. Would love to do it someday myself.

[dclowd9901]

Originally Posted by dim635csi

dclowd9901, nice flick ! What is the clicking sound there, paddle shifters ?

Thanks! The clicking sound was some loose item I had in one of the cup holders. I can't believe I didn't notice that at the time. I must've been laser focused.

Originally Posted by minn19

Very cool video. Interesting you felt like you were going to still lose it in MDM mode. Seems opposite of people here are saying that it cuts in to fast on US spec cars. Did you feel like it would of let you spin out or did it cut in and stop the slide?

I liked your quick narration during the slide

OT. What made you drive up to that track? Cool to see a different track posted than the usual ED ones such as Nurburgring etc. and before anybody jumps on me there is obviously nothing wrong with Nurburigring. Would love to do it someday myself.

Ha, yeah, that "narration" was more of an involuntary reflex from fear of offing a brand new car

I actually planned most of my trip around a public day at Spa. It's a beautiful track, and an amazing one with crazy elevation. And to your comment, I enjoyed it far more than Nurburgring, though I was clearly out of my element.

As far as MDM cut-in goes, my understanding (from the CA at the Welt) is that it will let you spin out the car as long as you don't let up. If you let up, the car senses that and cuts in, so people who are experiencing the cut in are probably modulating the throttle a bit more before as they approach the car's limits.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by dclowd9901

Thanks! The clicking sound was some loose item I had in one of the cup holders. I can't believe I didn't notice that at the time. I must've been laser focused.



Ha, yeah, that "narration" was more of an involuntary reflex from fear of offing a brand new car

I actually planned most of my trip around a public day at Spa. It's a beautiful track, and an amazing one with crazy elevation. And to your comment, I enjoyed it far more than Nurburgring, though I was clearly out of my element.

As far as MDM cut-in goes, my understanding (from the CA at the Welt) is that it will let you spin out the car as long as you don't let up. If you let up, the car senses that and cuts in, so people who are experiencing the cut in are probably modulating the throttle a bit more before as they approach reach the car's limits.

Interesting info on MDM. I've not heard that before. I've only played with MDM in the snow and it seems like it cuts in pretty quick. I'll pay attention more to what I'm doing with the throttle next time.

Don't blame yah on the narration, as I'm sure I would be the same and probably worse.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by FTS

I haven't been to the track yet, so no first-hand experience; however, looking at the torque curve of this car, wouldn't you think it would be the other way around?

If you take the higher gear and drop down to 2-4K RPM you are at max torque, of course depending on throttle position. If you take a gear that will give over 6K RPM you will be in the downward slope of the torque curve and possibly have less tendency to slip the tires? Am I missing something?

Yes you are: The multiplication effect of using a lower gear on the actual torque at the wheels.

Take a 65mph curve as an example, torque at the wheels would be as follows (for a DCT):

2nd gear -> 7300rpm -> 306lb-ft x 2.593 x 3.462 = 2745lb-ft
3rd gear -> 4800rpm -> 406lb-ft x 1.701 x 3.462 = 2391lb-ft
4th gear -> 3600rpm -> 406lb-ft x 1.277 x 3.462 = 1795lb-ft

[CanAutM3]

On the only track event I have attended thus far with my M4, it was a 3 day event with a rather wet second day. A perfect opportunity to test the new ride in varying conditions. The car remains very manageable in the wet. That new electronic rear diff is pure magic and makes the car very controllable. I turned down the EDC from Sport+ to Sport, the Engine from Sport+ to Sport and the DCT from S3 to S2. I mostly used MDM (for the benefit of that extra safety net), but I did a few laps with DSC off to explore the car's handling. The throttle can easily be modulated and the car remains very easy to control and manage in the wet even without the aids.

[dclowd9901]

Originally Posted by crypticc

Was the lead turning in very early?

Lead was making normal lines.