F80 M3 and the Base Cayman (apples and oranges, I know)

[DDR MFS]

I am in the process of finalizing what car to go with and if anyone here remembers, we had hashed out the M2 vs M3 on a separate thread. I originally ruled out the M2 based on future family needs and practicality, but after talking with my spouse, it turns out we can go either way. We both lead pretty busy careers and the need to both have four seats is not anything we will need in the next three years.

Given the first year nature of the M2 and the MSRP, I am firmly ruling that out. However, I have always loved and appreciated the P-car. My father had three over the course of me growing up, and they just resonate with me. I've test driven the base Cayman and it is truly sublime. The chassis, the manual, and the way it carves up the road are unlike anything I have ever had. I am happy with the base and can get a good price through USAA.

Likewise, I love the M3. BMW has no competition when it comes to sheer performance, practicality, cost of ownership and enthusiast culture rolled into one package. The car totally sold me at the M School. It's torquey, muscular, and the mid-range power is just unmatched. BMW leases are fantastic.


And thus I am having issues deciding on what to get. My lease matures in May so I do have some time but it doesn't make things easier. P-car slots are drying up as people are scooping up the flat six build before they go to the four FI for next model year. Either car will be definitely auto-Xed and will probably have two to four track days over the year. It will be a DD and driven in nearly all weather. Snow tires will be thrown on and I am a New Englander in with Capitol region, hence winter driving is easy and manageable.

I have built the following Cayman Base with the intent of making it a solid auto-Xer and DD (purchase):

- Metallic Blue Paint (Ex) / Luxor (Int)
- Manual
- Sport Chrono
- Sport Exhaust
- Sport Suspension
- Sat Radio
- Sport Seats
- Alcantara Sport Wheel

M3 Build (lease):
- SSII / Carbon Cloth
- Manual
- M Suspension
- Executive Package
- Alcantara Wheel (dealer install)

Things I am keeping in mind:

BMW - Includes maintenance, brand loyalty, excellent owners culture, and the love of the mid-range torque and power with solid handling. Quintessential sports sedan. Practical and is a jack of all trades. Great leases. Can be competitively tracked. Excellent base options that I would sh-t money out for with the P-car.

P-car - Out of pocket maintenance, great club representation, car totally fits my driving love which is carving up Auto-X courses and back roads, amazing steering, father's P-car history, Porsche's notorious "nickel-and-dime" optioning, cost of ownership over time (from research, it doesn't appear that bad as I initially thought), limited versatility.

Please chime in with any ideas, thoughts, comments. Obviously, I have driven both and really can't decide hence me being at this juncture. Neither car is a bad choice, it is more a matter of just figuring it out. In looking at Porsche and other BMW forums, this is a common comparison given the price of both vehicles, and each taking a very different approach to performance.

Thanks!

[redux]

Yup, I've been through this trap before. I'd suggest sticking with the M3 if there's even the slightest hint at an additional family member in the coming few years. Your spouse says the Porsche is ok now, but her mind will change, and you will be forced to sell your fun car for something reasonable.

[visualguy]

If you plan to use it mostly as a fun car, then I would get the Cayman. However, realize that it isn't a good daily driver or commuter car, and the M3 is better if you want a multi-purpose car.

[DDR MFS]

Originally Posted by redux

Yup, I've been through this trap before. I'd suggest sticking with the M3 if there's even the slightest hint at an additional family member in the coming few years. Your spouses says the Porsche is ok now, but her mind will change, and you will be forced to sell your fun car for something reasonable.

Very true but the kicker is we have a Subie Forrester (best car EVER) and it is her DD. She can drive stick as well, but it just comes down to what we want. I also have the Metro available and while it is a hike, it is an option. I think it comes down to the whole car swap issue.

I had a 370Z which I liked for the first year and then was done with. It was too brutish and I just didn't like the fact that it didn't know what it was supposed to be (nimble six cylinder coupe or answer to the US muscle car). I couldn't drive it well and it just felt too big and unwieldy. It just felt like a cross-eyed unicorn.

I say that because the P-car, formulaically, is the same deal but it couldn't be more different. I say that because, aside from the total craftsmanship and driving experience, it has more storage space than the Z.

Anyway, it is what it is, but as I mentioned, I can't go wrong with either decision and you bring up a very good point in that minds change.

[redux]

The Macan GTS is a surprising amount fun and satisfies the illusion of safety that many women relate with vehicle height. It will go a long way in diminishing the want once a coworker plants the evil seed of the Honda Odyssey when/if she announces that she is pregnant. Unless you can swing keeping the Cayman as 3rd car, I'd hold off on the purchase until the future family is old enough to ride in the front seat.

... plan on a trip to the Honda showroom if she rides in an Odyssey post conception. Plus the wreckage that follows children is easier to deal with when it happens in a car you don't care about.

[ASAP]

I would still get the M2 which is a middle of the road package between the two... still a better value than any pcar, a more poweful engine and 4 seats w a fun size.

[visualguy]

Originally Posted by ASAP

I would still get the M2 which is a middle of the road package between the two... still a better value than any pcar, a more poweful engine and 4 seats w a fun size.

Driving the Cayman is a special experience - the sound, the handling, the tightness and precision of everything.

[Karmic Man]

Buy what ever speaks to your heart.

People here can't help you on that as you are the one that's driving it in you own domain.

It sound like you are more affectionate with the Cayman.

[TheFlyingMouse]

I'm just finishing up two days with a rental base Cayman. You can get one through Hertz Dream Cars (no affiliation). I'm torn between selling my F80 M3 and getting a Cayman S brand new before the NA flat 6 goes poof. I would not get the base Cayman. It feels too slow, enough to make passing needlessly difficult in comparison to the M3.

The S is plenty fast, and the feel of the 6MT is beyond comparison. There is nothing like it in the BMWs I have driven, including my E30.

There are some ergonomics issues in the Cayman that you only notice after an hour of driving it. The window sill is too high to comfortably rest your arm, the center armrest is several inches too low, and the left side of the footwell is cramped for your left leg due to the wheel well.

Between the window sill and center armrest, my carpel tunnel was being triggered because of the high arm position. Also, the 14 way seats dig into my back, and rear visibility is pretty restricted.

Get the 18 way seats. They're way more comfortable because they provide shoulder support.

Everything else about it was perfect though. All of the driving mechanics, the sound, the road feel, and driver-machine interface were sublime.

It's just not a great road trip car, despite having enough room to fit a big cooler in the frunk. I was very impressed with that today.

All in all I'm torn. No kids, no need for rear seats. If I had to do it all over again I would probably choose Cayman S instead. Taking the hit on selling my M3 makes the decision very hard.

[Foggins]

Wow, what a great problem to have One other thing to consider is how much do you want to "stand out" vs "blend in". Based on your specs above, the Cayman will attract much more attention. Although totally different class of car, my last car (newly redesigned Mustang GT) attracted an unbelievable amount of attention. Fun at first, hated it towards the end. It was actually one of the reasons I sold it as I prefer to be a bit more under the radar. Good luck with your decision, hard to go wrong with either.

[DDR MFS]

Thanks for all the feed back.

Completely understand that it is my decision, but again, you really can't go wrong hence the thread to see what people have to think and say. I am leaning towards the 981 but, to me, it feels a little poorly thought out and more impulsive, hence me seeking therapy =D It makes it worse because I love being a BMW owner, but the 981 driving experience is well, unlike anything I have had.

Regarding the M2, it is a decent middle of the road compromise, but I want to go one way or the other. Either two with the NA or four with the FI. The Macan is an interesting suggestion but we already have an SUV and this will definitely be the dedicated DD and track/Auto-xer for the weekends, but none-the-less, a good thing to keep in the back of the head.

Flying Mouse, how tall are you? I only ask because I am 5'10 and felt the car to be very comfy for my build (runner build at 164). I have the sport seats optioned and I thought they were pretty solid for a trip, granted, I have done only a few 15 minute test drives but I'll take a look. The M3 is definitely the winner when it comes to comfort and the seats in the F80 are awesome. I felt the layout and proportions were great. My Z seating position never felt right but I felt the P-car just aligned properly on the inside.

I actually really enjoyed winding out the engine to pass extract the power. My Z was similar and you had to work it, but the reward wasn't there like it was taking the P-car on 50 and going hard on the throttle and rowing the gears.

The car, as observed in multiple publications and forums, doesn't have any match on the low end like the Munich car, but going wide on the throttle is too fun. Dealing with DC traffic, I can see it becoming a problem and is a solid thing to keep in mind. With the S, do you get the power earlier? I haven't really looked into it as it isn't something I can necessarily afford optioned in the way I want it to be. Either way, the base was enough for me given the reward when working the motor.

Good call on the attraction level. My spouse is a little apprehensive from that aspect and it is a good point. Police attraction is a negative, and general car haters and/or d-bags would probably make a point to key it in the event someone had a bad day. You see a fair amount of 911s around here however, so I am not entirely sure. But good point.

And yes, first world problems suuuck.

Thanks again. I may look into the Hertz rental deal to live with it for a day. Do they lease manuals or strictly PDK? Guess PDK only...

Thanks!

[TheFlyingMouse]

PDK only at Hertz, sadly, but well worth the money to check it out.

I spent under a grand for two days (added the loss damage waiver) and did ~330 miles in a basic Cayman with the 14 way power seats. Power starts being delivered at 5500 rpm and on, and you really have to wind it out to get there. There's almost nothing available below that rpm, and it takes quite a while to get to the power band because the gearing is so long (second gear goes to 80 mph)

I had no such complaints in the S; there is enough torque to pass other cars starting at 4000 rpm. I would prefer a stripped down S to a well-optioned base Cayman, but this would fit comfortably into my budget with the options I want (except for the loss on the M3), so take that with a grain of salt.

I'm about 5' 6" and quite a bit heavier than you. It's not really that I feel cramped in the cabin, because it's no worse than my 128i in terms of interior space. The issue is the layout; I like to sit with my legs apart, and the wheel well in the Cayman is in the way of my left foot, so I have to keep it at a slightly uncomfortable angle. The door sill being too high may just be an issue with a shorter torso. My arm tilts up uncomfortably unless I raise the seat so my head is almost touching the ceiling.

Trying to decide if it's worth a loss on the M3. This will probably be haunting me for a while, even after I make a decision. I WANT the Cayman, but I'm not sure I can justify the cost when a used 987 is available for the same money as the loss combined with the cost of the new Cayman S, especially given that we occasionally have use for a real GT car. The M3 is perfect for that.

[redux]

The Cayman sounds like it's a win for you. Check the boxes for PASM and PTV instead of the sports exhaust and suspension. It will make the commute better.

[Drizz]

Originally Posted by TheFlyingMouse

I'm just finishing up two days with a rental base Cayman. You can get one through Hertz Dream Cars (no affiliation). I'm torn between selling my F80 M3 and getting a Cayman S brand new before the NA flat 6 goes poof. I would not get the base Cayman. It feels too slow, enough to make passing needlessly difficult in comparison to the M3.

The S is plenty fast, and the feel of the 6MT is beyond comparison. There is nothing like it in the BMWs I have driven, including my E30.

There are some ergonomics issues in the Cayman that you only notice after an hour of driving it. The window sill is too high to comfortably rest your arm, the center armrest is several inches too low, and the left side of the footwell is cramped for your left leg due to the wheel well.

Between the window sill and center armrest, my carpel tunnel was being triggered because of the high arm position. Also, the 14 way seats dig into my back, and rear visibility is pretty restricted.

Get the 18 way seats. They're way more comfortable because they provide shoulder support.

Everything else about it was perfect though. All of the driving mechanics, the sound, the road feel, and driver-machine interface were sublime.

It's just not a great road trip car, despite having enough room to fit a big cooler in the frunk. I was very impressed with that today.

All in all I'm torn. No kids, no need for rear seats. If I had to do it all over again I would probably choose Cayman S instead. Taking the hit on selling my M3 makes the decision very hard.

I'm actually on the fence with this very decision. Had my M3 for 15 months now and about the pull the trigger on a Cayman S. I keep going back and forth in my head cause the M is a fantastic car, but so is the Cayman S.. Actually planned on possibly doing a deal on a CS tomorrow but we'll see how I feel about it when I wake up.

[adc]

The problem of the base Cayman is created by its greatest asset: the handling. It is so balanced and grippy that you need to drive it very fast to get the car to move around. The base engine simply isn't powerful enough to get the car to dance easily.

It's why I sold my base Boxster and now have a Z4 for summer fun.

The M by comparison is a constant lesson in chassis dynamics. IMO if you cannot stretch to a Cayman S, get the M. Or buy a gently used S.

[SeatownF80]

I got a base Cayman MT loaner while my Cayenne was in service earlier this year and it was a blast. I drove it all day, raking up 100+ miles on it. It made me realize how much more fun driving can be. But I'm a parent now so getting a 2 seater would be impractical so I test drove the F80 and went with that a few months after. It is definitely my #1 on 3rd car list though.

[nicknaz]

I took a pass on 981 S PDK

Too slow in a straight line for the $

[TheFlyingMouse]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

I took a pass on 981 S PDK

Too slow in a straight line for the $

You're right that it is very expensive for what you get. This was my original argument when I bought my M3. May be best to solve my itch for that smaller lighter car by getting a used 987 S or R in a few years, and still keep the M3.

[Cameronc08]

I think the New Cayman looks great, but I'll always have a tough time justifying it when you can get a used 997.1 turbo 6speed for much cheaper. That's exactly what I did a couple years ago and I don't think I'll ever be able to purchase a Porsche this side of turbo or GT now. A blessing and a curse.

[DDR MFS]

Originally Posted by Cameronc08

I think the New Cayman looks great, but I'll always have a tough time justifying it when you can get a used 997.1 turbo 6speed for much cheaper. That's exactly what I did a couple years ago and I don't think I'll ever be able to purchase a Porsche this side of turbo or GT now. A blessing and a curse.

Again, I think the Base is a total blast. I auto-X and with the high-revving, on-rail handling, and nimble nature, I think it will be great for those events and, while maybe having to work it, a decent commuter. In looking over at Planet 9, a lot of people use them for daily driving and have no complaints.

That said, I am looking at slightly used CSs too. I'd almost rather go new Base with more "touring" options to make the ride more comfortable and the car a little more livable. X73 is a must regardless.

I do need to go test drive a 6MT F80 again as this gets closer. Having spent the time in the P-cars and having a great drive in the E92 iS this morning, I need a reality check with the BMW. You cannot beat the value in the package, but god is the P-car "finished".

What sort of 997.2 deals can you get? Are these CPO cars or general used?

Thanks again, and usual, no one can decide this for me but me, but this is helping.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by TheFlyingMouse

You're right that it is very expensive for what you get. This was my original argument when I bought my M3. May be best to solve my itch for that smaller lighter car by getting a used 987 S or R in a few years, and still keep the M3.

987 R seems to not really have depreciated.

I spent some time with my brother's 987.2 S PDK. Loved the car. Even used though, its expensive. I guess it comes down to how much $ do you have and how badly do you want the badge? Cameron has it right on i think.. turbo or GT or don't bother...

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by adc

The problem of the base Cayman is created by its greatest asset: the handling. It is so balanced and grippy that you need to drive it very fast to get the car to move around. The base engine simply isn't powerful enough to get the car to dance easily.

It's why I sold my base Boxster and now have a Z4 for summer fun.

The M by comparison is a constant lesson in chassis dynamics. IMO if you cannot stretch to a Cayman S, get the M. Or buy a gently used S.

+1 Get the S and don't look back. Get the M3 when you have a kid in 3 years.