F80 M3 scale weight - 3562 lbs (no driver, full tank, 6MT, CF roof, 19" wheels)

[killaseason22]

I'm not to disappointed in the weight being that the car has grown in size but concerned about how it will hold up against competition I thought 425/406 was good but that's how I felt assuming the car would be what bmw was claiming at this point it is what it is tho hopefully will see a power gain with the comp pack to help widen the gap in performance.. I jus would hate to see the mustang which was so close to the e92 in terms of performance be on par with the new m3/m4 but I'm going to wait till I see independent test before I make a decision on this one..

[nachob]

Still to heavy IMHO. The add carbon parts but make power seats, idrive, lcd screen mandatory for US. I don't get why all the expensive carbon stuff, then bloat the cars. I guess so they don't hit 4000 lbs.

Anyway, AWESOME POST! Thank you for putting real number up.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

Let's see if merc is better about it's estimates than BMW

And like I said, they have never deviated from their normal weihjt estimates on any car until this gen. The e9x m3 fit into their claims as did the 1m.

So, I chose to believe them until proven otherwise. Unfortunately, it appears we have been proven otherwise.

Yeah the 220-lb estimate is on the conservative side so that's what I'm going with. If it's less, that's great. Regardless, so long as there's progress I'll be content.

I added this note to my post after you had responded:

I'm not that disappointed with the F80 results because they're what I was expecting the entire time. It's still progress. And the upside is the car will have a bit more power, more torque, etc.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by JS919

Here is what the sticky says about curb weight.

Summary:
USA:
1. Curb weight ( Inconsistent reporting, with or without driver, unknown and inconsistent equipment level ).

Summary of definitions:
US Curb Weight:
Weight of car with fluids and fuel at 100% as well as weight of any option expected to be in more than 33% of vehicles sold. Driver not included in US legal definition, but usually included in manufacturers public figures.

Furthermore from a recent interview with a BMW product manger, his explanation of US curb weight:
The way the US curb weight is measured includes full fluids in the car, all standard equipment for US market and all options that are expected to be equipped on more than one-thirds of M3/M4 sold.

Don't see any mention of luggage, or for that matter that a driver is included in BMW's calculations.

Please explain to me how my previous post is wrong?

Nope since I don't like your tone but you can figure it out. The clues are all there.

[bradleyland]

I don't remember any specific mention of 3300 lbs from BMW, but I do remember a lot of talk about the E46 M3 curb weight being the "target weight". I guess the use of the word "target" was a qualifier. They aimed for it, but they missed pretty badly.

Shame. I was hoping that the forthcoming M2 would surprise everyone and be a real lightweight, but if this is any indicator of BMW's success in weight savings efforts, I'd be surprised if it was less than 3400 lbs.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by nachob

Still to heavy IMHO. The add carbon parts but make power seats, idrive, lcd screen mandatory for US. I don't get why all the expensive carbon stuff, then bloat the cars. I guess so they don't hit 4000 lbs.

iDrive is standard in every 3/4 Series in the world and power seats are standard in every M3/M4 in the world. The larger LCD screen may have little (a few ounces) or even no weight disadvantage vs. than smaller one - the two use the exact same enclosure, the larger one just has less bezel.

Facts aside, I see your point, but there's not much you could cut. Manual seats would be one thing, true. You could also eliminate the heated seats. What else? Navigation, yes, but it's probably less than 5 lbs of hardware. I suppose you could eliminate some speakers (and amps) - I think the lowest end factory 3 Series system has just six or eight. Not a whole lot of fat to cut from the base car from a factory-specs perspective.

[Black Gold]

I look forward to the reviews that are coming out first week of may. Hopefully one of these outfits will be able to weigh a production car to give us a second data point, perhaps even a dct m4?

I'm still excited about the car, but annoyed by the misleading BMW marketing. There really was no reason for it, so it's a shame.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

I don't remember any specific mention of 3300 lbs from BMW, but I do remember a lot of talk about the E46 M3 curb weight being the "target weight". I guess the use of the word "target" was a qualifier. They aimed for it, but they missed pretty badly.

Shame. I was hoping that the forthcoming M2 would surprise everyone and be a real lightweight, but if this is any indicator of BMW's success in weight savings efforts, I'd be surprised if it was less than 3400 lbs.

What about in their official launch literature. 1497kg DIN (3300lb) is what is advertised.

[swamp2]

Here is the REAL story, sorry bimmerpost, you got it wrong...

F80 M3 sedan vs. E90 M3 sedan: 84 lb savings (at best).

Originally Posted by JS919

The only official information BMW has released that is specific to the F8x sold in the USA is on BMWUSA.com. On that webpage the weight is listed at 3540lbs for a 6MT. Looking at the weight shown in the original post on this thread I'd say that BMW has been fairly accurate.

No, not at all see quotes and my post below. No one is saying BMW NA is being dishonest...

Originally Posted by solstice

How is this in any way or form good news? We already know that the car is lighter than the E90 M3, that is not news. In fact we have official weight numbers in all standards. All pointing to the same 80kg / 176lbs weight savings over the old car. Now we have real world numbers pointing to less than half of that with similar equipment. Very disappointing. Granted there is still question marks over the overall equipment level and real weight of the new DCT vs the old.

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

So this pretty much confirms all the red flags that several have pointed/called out many months ago (in some cases years ago). The weight info dribbled out by BMW on the M3/M4 seemed unrealistic, non-comparable apples-to-apples, partially released (curb or DIN weight), provided given different configurations (base weight vs "comparably equipped"). Basically obfuscating the facts as much as one could while providing some veneer of massive weight loss so as to create a nice tagline. Lo and behold, once the facts come out, the actual weight loss is much less than the hype. Disappointing as it is, but at least there is validation to the saying that if things seem to be too good to be true and not really corroborated by evidence and common sense, then they probably are.

I think the headline here is bad (and worse for BMW ///Marketing indeed). Let's try to make the existing numbers just a bit more apples to apples as because as others have pointed out they are not yet so.

E90 M3:

3736 lb

• -45 lb (sunroof, as this is more apples to apples with the CF F80, this is 11 lb from the roof material and the balance from the sunroof and mecanism)
• -45 lb (convert it from DCT to MT, official figure)
• -XX lb (account for wheel+tire differences to BMW OEM 19" wheel - what wheels are those and what correction do we need here?)
• -YY lb ("full optioned" to get down to more lightly optioned - any estimates here?)

E90 M3 "apples to apples" weight compared to THIS F80 M3:

3646 lb (not yet with the XX or YY values!) vs. 3582

84 lb difference (at best). Oh well, lb, kg, who cares...

The 3300 lb stuff was PURE BS. Now the "80 kg lighter when comparably equipped) is also pure nonsense. Shame on you BMW, but I have been saying this for some time...

Let's get the XX and YY values better and really expose the fraud!

Not to be the F8X M3/M4 downer I always am, there is still a bright side - the car is bigger (not that this in itself is great) but lighter at the same time. At least BMW didn't lie about the basic direction of the change this time... Also, as pointed out prior, with how much bigger the car is, any weight loss is impressive from a pure engineering point of view.

[Boss330]

Originally Posted by JS919

Would you care to share where you found this information, that on top of a full tank of fuel luggage is also included? I drive quite often, but rarely do I have luggage. I'm not sure why that would be included? What is the "standard" for driver weight in this formula? There is an argument brewing here over give or take a hundred pounds. That is about the difference between me and my girlfriend. So I think if the driver is part of the curb weight equation in the "US standard" it should be published.

Or, you are just completely wrong... I'm going with this option.

Originally Posted by solstice

Read the sticky about weight standards.

Originally Posted by JS919

Here is what the sticky says about curb weight.

Summary:
USA:
1. Curb weight ( Inconsistent reporting, with or without driver, unknown and inconsistent equipment level ).

Summary of definitions:
US Curb Weight:
Weight of car with fluids and fuel at 100% as well as weight of any option expected to be in more than 33% of vehicles sold. Driver not included in US legal definition, but usually included in manufacturers public figures.

Furthermore from a recent interview with a BMW product manger, his explanation of US curb weight:
The way the US curb weight is measured includes full fluids in the car, all standard equipment for US market and all options that are expected to be equipped on more than one-thirds of M3/M4 sold.

Don't see any mention of luggage, or for that matter that a driver is included in BMW's calculations.

Please explain to me how my previous post is wrong?

The official definition is driver 68kg and luggage 7kg = 75kg

Often it's only referred to as "Driver 75kg", but in reality it's 68kg in the drivers seat and 7kg in the luggage compartment.

Taken from www.bmw.de tech specs on the M4:

Leergewicht EU in kg: Im angegebenen Wert sind 90 Prozent Tankfüllung sowie 68 kg für den Fahrer und 7 kg für Gepäck berücksichtigt. Das Leergewicht gilt für Fahrzeuge in serienmäßiger Ausstattung. Sonderausstattungen können diesen Wert erhöhen.

http://www.bmw.de/de/neufahrzeuge/M/...che-daten.html

Click on "Hinweis zu den spezifikationen" and you will find the above info.

More detailed info on US curb weights and driver/luggage is in the sticky

[Black Gold]

Good post, swamp.

I would imagine the standard equipment between the two cars that were weighed is identical (exception is sunroof and dct). The new m3 comes standard with almost the same equipment as a loaded e9x m3. The f80 may even have more if it also has hk (all models I've seen pics of do), the drivers assistance and exec package. That said, I don't think that those will add that much weight , more than 10-15 lbs.

Regardless, looks like a realistic 80-100 lbs loss on manual to manual. Good, but half what was reported.

It still will be a great car, but the lying just is irritating

[swamp2]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

I would imagine the standard equipment between the two cars that were weighed is identical (exception is sunroof and dct). The new m3 comes standard with almost the same equipment as a loaded e9x m3. The f80 may even have more if it also has hk (all models I've seen pics of do), the drivers assistance and exec package. That said, I don't think that those will add that much weight , more than 10-15 lbs.

Good point, "apples to apples" better represented by a similar level (i.e. base car or fully optioned) vs. having the same specific amenities. I think I lead toward the former and you are leaning toward the latter. Both are reasonable points of view.

[solstice]

According to bmw.de the F80 M3 is 1520kg = 3351lbs with manual.
The car here which is an F80 6 MT weighs 211 lbs more, how is that possible?

What have they stuffed it with? An American size corps in the trunk?
I don't buy it. Also owners of E90/E92s regularly weigh them to around 3550 lbs and here they weigh it a plus 3700 lbs. Something is not right.

Not that I trust BMW but they have never been more than 200 lbs off in their Euro numbers, I just don't think that it is possible and would not pass the German obsession for rules. And since the weighing of US E9Xs have matched pretty well with Euro weight in the past it's not like they have a history of swapping the lightweight material in US cars to cast iron since we are so fat anyway and no one will notice...

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Good point, "apples to apples" better represented by a similar level (i.e. base car or fully optioned) vs. having the same specific amenities. I think I lead toward the former and you are leaning toward the latter. Both are reasonable points of view.

I would say I consider everything other than the sunroof and dct a wash, and probably about equal.

8x lbs is good, but not great.

I still wanna see another one on the scales. An m4 would be nice too.

[JoeFromPA]

I would really appreciate a magazine or outfit that got all the M3s together and maybe a few M5's (e28, e34, and e39 at least) and put them all at full fluids, base equipment levels or very similar, and then weighed them.

I'm a bit dissapointed. An f30 335i mt is listed as weighing 3,545 on BMW's website; an f80 m3 is listed at 3,540 on the same website. That F30 is WITH a sunroof, no CF roof, no CF driveshaft, and no other weight saving efforts that have been done to the F80.

In addition, it's a frigging 3.0 liter turbocharged engine as well. Now that's a listed weight on both cars, but my question is this:

If they focused on weight savings, where did all the new weight come from COMPARED to the F30 335i? Chassis strengthening for rigidity and to handle the torque? Some weight of course is also added via the new cooling systems, the 2nd turbo, etc.

But the manual trans is fundamentally the same. The engine is extremely similar. It's the same size car, etc.

Yet with M putting their "#1 focus" on reducing weight, you've got an M3 that weighs the same as the similar base model

[FogCityM3]

On the glass half full side, would also say as you have pointed out numerous times prior that the S55 will likely be substantially underrated hp wise. BMW tends to be conservative with its performance numbers (thank goodness), thus given what they have released about 0-60/2 mph and 0-1000m suggest a 7.7-7.9x lb to hp ratio and thus 450+ bhp at the crank.

Anyway, good calls on all the weight threads in the past.

Originally Posted by swamp2

Not to be the F8X M3/M4 downer I always am, there is still a bright side - the car is bigger (not that this in itself is great) but lighter at the same time. At least BMW didn't lie about the basic direction of the change this time... Also, as pointed out prior, with how much bigger the car is, any weight loss is impressive from a pure engineering point of view.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

What about in their official launch literature. 1497kg DIN (3300lb) is what is advertised.

Ah, not sure how I missed that one. The E46 M3 target must have stuck in my brain.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

8x lbs is good, but not great.

8x lbs is my nephew. I couldn't tell the difference between my nephew in the car and not in my 135i. I could with my dad at 140 lbs.

"Not great" is pretty much summing up my feelings. It's looking more and more like I'm going to wait (pun intended) on the M2 or look elsewhere.

[Zayken]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

I would really appreciate a magazine or outfit that got all the M3s together and maybe a few M5's (e28, e34, and e39 at least) and put them all at full fluids, base equipment levels or very similar, and then weighed them.

I'm a bit dissapointed. An f30 335i mt is listed as weighing 3,545 on BMW's website; an f80 m3 is listed at 3,540 on the same website. That F30 is WITH a sunroof, no CF roof, no CF driveshaft, and no other weight saving efforts that have been done to the F80.

In addition, it's a frigging 3.0 liter turbocharged engine as well. Now that's a listed weight on both cars, but my question is this:

If they focused on weight savings, where did all the new weight come from COMPARED to the F30 335i? Chassis strengthening for rigidity and to handle the torque? Some weight of course is also added via the new cooling systems, the 2nd turbo, etc.

But the manual trans is fundamentally the same. The engine is extremely similar. It's the same size car, etc.

Yet with M putting their "#1 focus" on reducing weight, you've got an M3 that weighs the same as the similar base model

Exactly.. If you search you will discover that F8X 3 series weights the same with E9X 3 series .

In the end we will all start to suspect that the M4 is a new platform (which was developed to carry the BMW apps?? as there it brings no innovation at all) carrying an improved N54 motor coming from BMW's stock .

There is nothing new at this M3/4. Apart from carbon ceramic brakes, we have seen everything on previous models.

I am sure that there are many 335s equivalent to the new M3/4 outhere without turbo upgrades, just with software and cooling .

They liquidate like crazy what Panko built .

NEXT SUBJECT : WITH THE NEW WEIGHT DATA CAN M3/4 RUN THE 0-62 SPRINT UNDER 4 sec ????

I will make the beggining: It will be one more faulty statement from their fantasy inspired marketing department !!!!!!

[kenwelch]

"Apples to Oranges" just for fun.
Where does the time go? Almost 6 years ago I weighed Swamps car E92 M3, Hans Delbruck's C63 AMG, and my old 1995 E36 M3 coupe on the same day.

Here are the links if you want to step through a time warp.
Beginning of the thread:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151217

Swamps E92 M3 on the scales and weight photos:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=27

1995 E36 M3 Automatic
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...9&postcount=28

[solstice]

Originally Posted by kenwelch

"Apples to Oranges" just for fun.
Where does the time go? Almost 6 years ago I weighed Swamps car E92 M3, Hans Delbruck's C63 AMG, and my old 1995 E36 M3 coupe on the same day.

Here are the links if you want to step through a time warp.
Beginning of the thread:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151217

Swamps E92 M3 on the scales and weight photos:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=27

1995 E36 M3 Automatic
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...9&postcount=28

Thank you, another data point showing the E92 at around 3550 lbs with DCT almost 200 lbs below the E90 in this post. The weights in this post is way off IMO and useless. I put my trust in the EU numbers for now and disregard the weights in this post. Should the F80 weight turn out to be 3560 lbs I will not trust any numbers given as hp,tq,0-60,0-1000 etc. If true the power to weight is the same as the E90 as well. I don't think that's the case.

[Thurman Murch]

Where's the tangible evidence that the weighed cars had full gas tanks and options mentioned? I would like to see a walk around video of the engine bay, ip, interior, trunk and the weight all inclusive

Nonetheless, I think the f8x will have considerable power when atmospheric/environmental conditions permit max power and boost

Is it worth getting into the f8x? I think for those who are itching to get out of M5s or wanting the tunability of a turbo or need the extra room have their M coming

For others, it's hold out for the M2 or bust