While we are waitig for Sam's MT review.

[solstice]

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myzmak posted this bimmerfest review in the main review thread a while back but I think the MT part deserves an own thread since it's the most detailed one this far and not to be missed by us who wait for more MT info.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/77699...-track-review/

"The 6 speed manual is the best I've driven from BMW. The gear box is derived from the 1M coupe but has been reworked and lightened. A typical BMW shifter is a rubbery contraption that feels loosely coupled to the gear box. the M3/M4 on the other hand feels like the lever is directly bolted to the gears with a precision machined shaft. The shifts are very direct if not a touch on the long side. A downside to this mechanical precision is a lack of lever feel. There is no sense of gear-neutral-gear, it is just a clean motion front to back, a little more feedback would make the experience more enjoyable. The new transmission is coupled to the S55 engine with a dual plate clutch, giving you twice the friction area to hold the power and torque. Despite this trick clutch, the engagement is easy, just like the shiftier is effortless to a fault. Smooth is good, but feel is better BMW. Overall two work perfectly together and give the impression that this manual was not an after thought."

"Those that enjoy rowing their own gears will be pleased to hear a manual transmission is still the default offering and features a trick dual plate clutch. But you pay the price for your slower shifting with a 0-60 time of 'just' 4.1 seconds."

"The one thing that did drive me crazy is the manual transmission rev match feature. Driving a manual transmission is supposed to be hard work and the reward for those of us still stubborn enough to deal with the daily inconvenience is the occasionally perfectly matched heal toe downshift. There is nothing more enjoyable then working three pedals with two feet while making a perfectly timed gear change. The new rev match feature takes all of that away by automatically blipping the engine the appropriate amount when braking. Thank for giving us the manual transmission BMW but leave us to do our complicated foot work in peace! As a nod to the silly nature of this feature it is automatically turned off in Sport Plus throttle mode. When you really want to go driving you should blip your own throttle, and I shouldn't have to be in Sport Plus to do it. Why BMW didn't make this an option in iDrive is frustrating."


A mixed bag and I'm not sure how he get to the conclusion that it's the best ever taken the lack of feel and that it drives him crazy... Anyhow I like what he says since his negatives doesn't bother me much from how it's described. Maybe I feel different when I drive it.

[Damasconian]

This debate is literally keeping me up at night. I was 100% manual before the reviews started pouring in. Nearly all of them are praising the DCT while the 6-MT seems to be just an afterthought.

Did BMW build this car with the DCT in mind then throw in a manual to appease guys like us? Jalopnik came out with their review today, and Motor trend should be out soon as well. What I'm Really waiting on is the Chris Harris review. Help!

[Sedan_Clan]

Here is a write-up from our Admin at E46Fanatics.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=776993


He included some really key points from the perspective of a previous ///M owner and a regular Joe/Jane like the rest of us (..and that SO coupe looks great in the sun).

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Here is a write-up from our Admin at E46Fanatics.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=776993

Same guy, same review

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by solstice

Same guy, same review

Oh shit! I didn't pay attention. Total fail. LOL!

[solstice]

Originally Posted by Damasconian

Nearly all of them are praising the DCT while the 6-MT seems to be just an afterthought.

Did BMW build this car with the DCT in mind then throw in a manual to appease guys like us?

That's not how I see it. The DCT is pretty much taken directly from the M5 and it's lacking the fine tuning of settings found in the E9X M-DCT and I think it's heavier as well. I think BMW worked more on fitting the MT specifcally to the car than what they did with the M-DCT. The DCT is fantastic, I have it now and it could very well be the better fit for the cars persona and that's what many reviewers are saying but it still doesn't have the 3rd pedal and the added control that comes with that. For me the decision was not so much between the DCT vs MT this time as if the MT is good enough i terms of being an MT. So far it looks quite promising.

[rubber_ducky]

I'm confused by the reviews for both the 6MT and the auto. CH, whose reviews I enjoy but I don't put on a pedestal, now famously said that the DCT is a better match for this motor. What I'm confused by is this... it seems to me that the flat torque curve of this new (turbo charged) motor suits a MT perfectly. I would imagine that you have to be less careful about getting the timing of the shift just right.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by Damasconian

This debate is literally keeping me up at night. I was 100% manual before the reviews started pouring in. Nearly all of them are praising the DCT while the 6-MT seems to be just an afterthought.

Did BMW build this car with the DCT in mind then throw in a manual to appease guys like us? Jalopnik came out with their review today, and Motor trend should be out soon as well. What I'm Really waiting on is the Chris Harris review. Help!

Also bear in mind, 99% of the review time has been DCT (which BMW wants to sell because, well, they make $$$ on it). Most reviewers didn't get MT time (only a few cars were in Portugal, which is where most reviews that are out there now have come from) and those that got time with MT had less time than with DCT.

Also, frankly, while I love MTs and will get one myself, there is probably less to say. DCT needs a sell job to explain how fast it is, how smooth it is, how engaging it is, etc. MTs can be better or worse, but a lot of the 'experience' comes down to the driver and unless one of these guys is gonna say "I am totally uncoordinated and I couldn't for the life of me get out of the pit without stalling it 3 times" they won't really say much on how smooth the shifts were, etc. The technological shifts in an MT just aren't as 'exciting' to write about or as dominant/prevalent to the experience as with something like a DCT (which is still tech that is less than a decade old),

[IMrMark]

Originally Posted by myzmak

Also bear in mind, 99% of the review time has been DCT (which BMW wants to sell because, well, they make $$$ on it). Most reviewers didn't get MT time (only a few cars were in Portugal, which is where most reviews that are out there now have come from) and those that got time with MT had less time than with DCT.

Also, frankly, while I love MTs and will get one myself, there is probably less to say. DCT needs a sell job to explain how fast it is, how smooth it is, how engaging it is, etc. MTs can be better or worse, but a lot of the 'experience' comes down to the driver and unless one of these guys is gonna say "I am totally uncoordinated and I couldn't for the life of me get out of the pit without stalling it 3 times" they won't really say much on how smooth the shifts were, etc. The technological shifts in an MT just aren't as 'exciting' to write about or as dominant/prevalent to the experience as with something like a DCT (which is still tech that is less than a decade old),

Yeah, I agree with this. One of the CNET editors at large that I keep an eye on went to the event at Road America... the MT "wasn't available" for him to try, so I think the bit about BMW only providing a limited selection of MT for testing rings true overall. DCT will be spoken of more and more simply by the nature that it's what's there. Not to take away from how awesome it is/can be or anything like that. I think if all the test cars were MT, we'd end up seeing more reviews on MT, etc, that's all.

[GBPackerfan1963]

My 2¢. I'm coming from an E39 M5 with a CNS racing clutch and E60 SSK on the Getrag. It has a definitive "notch" when shifting (which I love). There is a definitive gear-neutral-gear feel.

I drove an E60 M5 6MT and hated it. The shifts were too smooth and make me feel disconnected from the driving experience.

My suspicions are the new M3/M4 6MT might be a little of both trannies. That is something I'm not good with. I love my notchiness in my shifts.

With that being said, I am sticking with the DCT on my order. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to drive a 6MT on the F80/F82 just to confirm my suspicions.

Caveat Emptor YMMV

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by IMrMark

Yeah, I agree with this. One of the CNET editors at large that I keep an eye on went to the event at Road America... the MT "wasn't available" for him to try, so I think the bit about BMW only providing a limited selection of MT for testing rings true overall. DCT will be spoken of more and more simply by the nature that it's what's there. Not to take away from how awesome it is/can be or anything like that. I think if all the test cars were MT, we'd end up seeing more reviews on MT, etc, that's all.

There were MT's at the Road America test though. People have written reviews and provided photos.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by GBPackerfan1963

My 2¢. I'm coming from an E39 M5 with a CNS racing clutch and E60 SSK on the Getrag. It has a definitive "notch" when shifting (which I love). There is a definitive gear-neutral-gear feel.

I drove an E60 M5 6MT and hated it. The shifts were too smooth and make me feel disconnected from the driving experience.

My suspicions are the new M3/M4 6MT might be a little of both trannies. That is something I'm not good with. I love my notchiness in my shifts.

With that being said, I am sticking with the DCT on my order. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to drive a 6MT on the F80/F82 just to confirm my suspicions.

Caveat Emptor YMMV

I prefer a bit of notch, roughness around the edge as well.

[IMrMark]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

There were MT's at the Road America test though. People have written reviews and provided photos.

Right - I mean that if there are 50 journalists and only 2 MTs (random number for example), then it wont be available for everyone to test.

[SOM3]

BMW manuals are crappy to begin with. 1M manual may have been better than terrible E9X one but the worst part of it returns (if it is in fact the same one offered in F8X): long throws.

DCT for me this time.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by SOM3

BMW manuals are crappy to begin with. 1M manual may have been better than terrible E9X one but the worst part of it returns (if it is in fact the same one offered in F8X): long throws.

DCT for me this time.

I'm on the other side of the fence. I like the shift throw of BMW manuals, and didn't really care for well regarded MT's like that of the S2000. It's all preference.

[Keto]

TBH if BMW had lightened and reworked the DCT for the F80/82 I would have possibly gone that way. But they decided for cost to remain with the previous model. So I chose the "newer" transmission (reworked manual) as well as the endangered one.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Keto

TBH if BMW had lightened and reworked the DCT for the F80/82 I would have possibly gone that way. But they decided for cost to remain with the previous model. So I chose the "newer" transmission (reworked manual) as well as the endangered one.

Good point!

[BlackCobra08]

Originally Posted by rubber_ducky

I'm confused by the reviews for both the 6MT and the auto. CH, whose reviews I enjoy but I don't put on a pedestal, now famously said that the DCT is a better match for this motor. What I'm confused by is this... it seems to me that the flat torque curve of this new (turbo charged) motor suits a MT perfectly. I would imagine that you have to be less careful about getting the timing of the shift just right.

The thing is Chris Harris said he never drove the MT version of the M3

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Tim of Bimmerfest's review of the manual:

"The 6 speed manual is the best I've driven from BMW. The gear box is derived from the 1M coupe but has been reworked and lightened. A typical BMW shifter is a rubbery contraption that feels loosely coupled to the gear box. the M3/M4 on the other hand feels like the lever is directly bolted to the gears with a precision machined shaft. The shifts are very direct if not a touch on the long side. A downside to this mechanical precision is a lack of lever feel. There is no sense of gear-neutral-gear, it is just a clean motion front to back, a little more feedback would make the experience more enjoyable. The new transmission is coupled to the S55 engine with a dual plate clutch, giving you twice the friction area to hold the power and torque. Despite this trick clutch, the engagement is easy, just like the shiftier is effortless to a fault. Smooth is good, but feel is better BMW. Overall two work perfectly together and give the impression that this manual was not an after thought. Sadly despite the hard work on BMW's part they're expecting less then 20% of the F8x Ms to be purchased with manual transmissions."

Ummm, yeah. See post #1.

or:

[SOM3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I'm on the other side of the fence. I like the shift throw of BMW manuals, and didn't really care for well regarded MT's like that of the S2000. It's all preference.

I completely understand, it's all what you used to.

I spent that $2900 with a heavy heart this time.

[solstice]

I can live without "notch" if the gates are well defined. I don't want the feel of "stiring soup" but I don't think that is what Tim is saying. A feel of having the shifter bolted to the gears sounds like it has precise well defined gates with little play. In contrast to steering I also prefer to have very little torque coming through to the shifter and that it stays rather quite. If it really has such a precise feel I'm pretty confident I can adopt to the lack of gear engagement feel, maybe by just hittig the end of the gates with some authority until I'm fully conditioned to the feel. I'm really looking forward to try this seemingly very modern MT.

[turbo8765]

It seems that the higher torque motor would lend itself well to a conventional manual… much more so than the e92 M3.