M3 or M4 for staged track build out?

[adc]

Unless you run in Sport+ you get rev matching with the manual tranny too. I think Sport+ is too aggressive and unidimensional for track work.

[///Mobbin]

Originally Posted by adc

Unless you run in Sport+ you get rev matching with the manual tranny too. I think Sport+ is too aggressive and unidimensional for track work.

So I should run Sport then I imagine and no way to turn off rev-matching for this? Is there any point in heel-toe shifting then?

[///Mobbin]

So I think I am set on the manual transmission now. I just think it will be more fun for me and I think the performance is there too. Thanks everyone for your thoughts and insight on this subject!!

This thread and the others folks have mentioned were helpful in getting there: How is the manual transmission?

I guess that brings it down to M3 vs M4 and color. I'm going to take it slow on finalizing these decisions and head to the track a few more times with the S4 before I make a move.

One thing I am thinking is that couldn't I always drive to the track on my track wheels/tires instead of carting my street/rain set with me each time? Then I would just dial it back even more than usual in the rain. This may be short sighted, not sure. Then, how hard is it to fit a set of wheels/tires and other track gear in the M4?

The streetable track tires I would run or consider running depending on sizing and availability, I would run other similar tires as well:
Michelin PSC2's (not available in 18's right now), Potenza RE-71R's, Nitto NT01's, Toyo r888's, Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R's

Then I may run Hoosiers at some point way down the road and wouldn't plan to drive them to the track of course.

My usual track gear for reference:
helmet & gloves
2 x jackpoint jackstands
2 x regular jackstands
jack
spare brake pads
spare rotors (when I think I might need them)
torque wrench
breaker bar
misc. other tools
small cooler
a few folding chairs
go pro and mounts

Thoughts appreciated!

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by adc

Unless you run in Sport+ you get rev matching with the manual tranny too. I think Sport+ is too aggressive and unidimensional for track work.

Have you actually driven an F8X on the track and tried the different modes?

IMO, Sport+ is just perfect for a dry track on the F8X .

It is not the same as on the E9X. On my E9X, I preferred Sport and agree that Sport+ was too sensitive. But on the F8X, Sport+ rocks .

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

So I should run Sport then I imagine and no way to turn off rev-matching for this? Is there any point in heel-toe shifting then?

Just wait 'till you get your car and try both to see which setting YOU prefer

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

So I think I am set on the manual transmission now. I just think it will be more fun for me and I think the performance is there too. Thanks everyone for your thoughts and insight on this subject!!

This thread and the others folks have mentioned were helpful in getting there: How is the manual transmission?

I guess that brings it down to M3 vs M4 and color. I'm going to take it slow on finalizing these decisions and head to the track a few more times with the S4 before I make a move.

One thing I am thinking is that couldn't I always drive to the track on my track wheels/tires instead of carting my street/rain set with me each time? Then I would just dial it back even more than usual in the rain. This may be short sighted, not sure. Then, how hard is it to fit a set of wheels/tires and other track gear in the M4?

The streetable track tires I would run or consider running depending on sizing and availability, I would run other similar tires as well:
Michelin PSC2's (not available in 18's right now), Potenza RE-71R's, Nitto NT01's, Toyo r888's, Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R's

Then I may run Hoosiers at some point way down the road and wouldn't plan to drive them to the track of course.

My usual track gear for reference:
helmet & gloves
2 x jackpoint jackstands
2 x regular jackstands
jack
spare brake pads
spare rotors (when I think I might need them)
torque wrench
breaker bar
misc. other tools
small cooler
a few folding chairs
go pro and mounts

Thoughts appreciated!

I have not yet tried loading track tires in the back of the M4, but in my previous E92 M3, I had no issues fitting 4 275/35R18 tires mounted on 10" wheels in the back seat. This left the trunk free for my tool box, compressed air bottle, chairs, cooler, suitcase and whatever other shit I brought along. The front seat was also available for those weekends where my wife would join me (or for whoever else on the weekends she didn't )

[///Mobbin]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Have you actually driven an F8X on the track and tried the different modes?

IMO, Sport+ is just perfect for a dry track on the F8X .

It is not the same as on the E9X. On my E9X, I preferred Sport and agree that Sport+ was too sensitive. But on the F8X, Sport+ rocks .

Good to know thanks.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Just wait 'till you get your car and try both to see which setting YOU prefer

And good call, I guess it's good that there is at least a way to turn it off if I don't like it at the track!

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I have not yet tried loading track tires in the back of the M4, but in my previous E92 M3, I had no issues fitting 4 275/35R18 tires mounted on 10" wheels in the back seat. This left the trunk free for my tool box, compressed air bottle, chairs, cooler, suitcase and whatever other shit I brought along. The front seat was also available for those weekends where my wife would join me .

Good to know it will likely all fit, I hate to throw tires on the seats themselves but they will be in tire protectors anyway and it's still easier and more cost effective than towing (at this point)!

[adc]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

So I should run Sport then I imagine and no way to turn off rev-matching for this? Is there any point in heel-toe shifting then?

Heel & toe is going the way of the dodo.

Just when I was getting good at it too... Oh well.

There is a chance some tuner will find a way to disable it.

[///Mobbin]

The M3 has taken the lead! 15 votes for the M3, 14 votes for the M4.

[///Mobbin]

Voting is now tied, 15 to 15.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by ///Mobbin

Voting is now tied, 15 to 15.

As I posted previously, I believe most voters just see this poll as another generic M3 vs M4 debate and people vote on their overall preference in general. They are not for the best dedicated track car.

Except for the marginally lower MSRP, there is simply no justification for the M3 over the M4 as a dedicated track car.

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

M4 -> 50lb lighter, lower center of gravity and lower aero drag (smaller frontal area)

Just voted for m4. CanAutM3 is absolutly right if we are talking about a car that will see a few track days a year.
I am thinking about leasing m4 that should replace my main track car 135i.
E92 m3 will be with me (now that its SCed and modded for the track) untill wheels fall off. M4 will be a dd with 2 or 3 track days a year.
Does anyone know what are the lease rates now in the US for m4 DCT?

[///Mobbin]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

As I posted previously, I believe most voters just see this poll as another generic M3 vs M4 debate and people vote on their overall preference in general. They are not for the best dedicated track car.

Except for the marginally lower MSRP, there is simply no justification for the M3 over the M4 as a dedicated track car.

Thanks for the impression, duly noted. I too currently see the M4 as the better dedicated track car down the road. The M3 might have slightly higher practicality near term as a DD but I guess I am more focused on the track aspects for this thread. I will say I do see them as very close despite the slight edge to the m4 for this purpose.

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

Just voted for m4. CanAutM3 is absolutly right if we are talking about a car that will see a few track days a year.
I am thinking about leasing m4 that should replace my main track car 135i.
E92 m3 will be with me (now that its SCed and modded for the track) untill wheels fall off. M4 will be a dd with 2 or 3 track days a year.
Does anyone know what are the lease rates now in the US for m4 DCT?

Thanks for your thoughts and nice on the sc'd e92 m3 track car!

Okay, so interesting turn of events. On Friday I took the day off work and went and test drove a manual M4 that someone had ordered and then didn't buy. Apparently their wife thought it was too loud and they're now getting an M235i instead. Admittedly, it was much louder than I expected though I really enjoyed the sound myself. I absolutely loved the test drive and man is the M4 fast, the sensation of speed was much higher than in my S4! That said it didn't feel as connected to the road as I anticipated which has me re-thinking my plans. Silly I know as I was dead set on this going in, I am definitely struggling with the decision but am starting to think the M2 might be more my speed (if it feels more connected!). Could this be resolved for me with some heavy suspension modifications, I think so, I'm just thinking I want a more connected starting point. Am I off base here? I realize that one short test drive may not give me the whole story. For perspective I tracked a 997.2 C2S prior to my S4 and that car felt super connected. I'm not sure I want to DD another Porsche though as I'm really appreciating the utility of a car with a trunk and rear seats that fit child seats.

Has anyone compared the M4/M3 and the M235i? I know the M2 will be a different setup but I'm curious if thoughts are that they're going in the right direction with that chassis.

Btw, this is just my current thinking after a quick test drive. I've even considered signing up for 1-day M school for a better impression. I'm randomly in Greenville for work this week actually but no M school this coming Saturday, bummer!

FWIW I spent the rest of my Friday afternoon test driving e46 m3's thinking that would make a good dedicated track car. The cars I drove were all treated poorly and falling apart unfortunately, but despite that I decided that wasn't the right move for me at the moment. Also, I am not tracking enough yet to justify a dedicated track car right now (just aspirations to be there in a few years).

[///Mobbin]

First of all, I sincerely appreciate everyone's thoughts and advice in this thread. I just read over it again and tons of good info from lots of folks, thank you all for your thoughts!!

I wanted to provide an update. I ended up deciding to put down a deposit on an M2. I know it's a ways out but I have high hopes for it and I can continue researching other cars while I wait (the deposit is fully refundable). The M3/M4 are still very much in the running and I have actually considered a used 991 C2S as well (wife might kill me if I went this route again). I've heard the 991 is much more comfortable than the 997 was but it may still be less DD friendly than I want (Of note, I do need a back seat for my kids but they rarely ride in my car and if they do it's usually a short errand). Then the M2 should have that DD utility/comfort while still being quite the track machine and providing good road feedback (I hope). I do feel like I might regret/miss the power of the M3/M4 if I go this route but I think the compact package might be more what I am looking for this time. Will it be a modern day e46 m3 or possibly the next generation of the 1M? I'm not sure yet but I think it will be close.