Auto Start Stop = Extra Wear and Tear?

[335iIrish]

First thing I turned off when I took delivery... lol. Hate that stupid feature

[Lups]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Just be glad that ASS is not coded on by default like it is in the regular non-M 5-series. My neighbor's 528 drove her nuts because she had to turn the ASS off every time she drove it.

I told her that BMW could code it off. She was skeptical and was worried that BMW would tear her ASS up. But I convinced her that they would take care of her ASS. The first time I saw her after they coded it off she was really appreciative that her ASS was now off by default. Seriously, a true story.

Most people don't care for this technology and I'm not surprised that BMW will turn the system off for you at least once without charge.

The name, ASS has changed my opinion to the positive a little but I stand by my original comments.

Naturally the engineers have at least to some extent corrected the wear on engine because of ASS, but if I had it on, all I could hear in my head would be my driving instructors voice shouting at me for stalling the car. There are many things I can and want to picture with the word ASS in it, but that bald, boring man who refused to stay on my car while on ice track is not one of them.

As for the comments above (not in your post) about us who don't care are leasing: So not true. I support any means of saving the planet, also saving petrol, but I hate the way EU is now dealing with this all, and instead of cars that will last, I'm afraid we will end up with a expendable way of thinking about these.

I also work (and bore myself to death when bimmerpost doesn't have an ASS thread going on) daily, and I truly do appreciate every damn thing I buy, this car being the first thing I've bought for me in nine years.

[myzmak]

Originally Posted by SMURFDADDY

Threads like this are exactly why I stayed off forums for years...why cant people just answer the damn question? No need to rip into the guy....

FWIW, I think if you spend a bit more time here you will see 99.9% of the 'ripping into' people is just 'bustin balls' (as Paulie Walnuts might say) and most people that dish it out (a) take it right back; and (b) don't really take ourselves too seriously.

People who try to be too serious here or who just show up to be d---s and pick fights tend to get identified and weeded out pretty quickly.

If you can laugh (especially at yourself) you'll do fine here man.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by myzmak

FWIW, I think if you spend a bit more time here you will see 99.9% of the 'ripping into' people is just 'bustin balls' (as Paulie Walnuts might say) and most people that dish it out (a) take it right back; and (b) don't really take ourselves too seriously.

People who try to be too serious here or who just show up to be d---s and pick fights tend to get identified and weeded out pretty quickly.

If you can laugh (especially at yourself) you'll do fine here man.

[Bluex]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

I am not rich, work very hard for everything I own, so I place value and consideration into my belongings...maybe to much. But from reading around the forum it seems most around here just keep their cars for 1-3 years, and get a new one....that's not me at all, unless I dislike the car for some reason. I'm new to BMWs and M cars so just trying to learn about my car and get different perspectives. I learned a few things from this thread that are not listed in any of my manuals.

Thanks to those who understood my intent.

For what it's worth, I agree with you completely in terms of placing value and consideration to that which you decide to own....I plan on keeping my M3 for at least 4 years, maybe 5 or more, depending on what comes out next. I also configured my vehicle exactly as I wanted it to be, based upon desire, function and overall value. Nothing but respect for wanting to simply learn all there is to learn about your car.....a prized possession, and one that you plan to stay with for a significant amount of time.

Hey for what it's worth, I was given a little shit when I decided to not go with Individual stitching because I didn't see value to the $6,000 cost. I think a statement was made that if I was grumbling over that 6K option, I had no place ordering a car like the M3 that I couldn't afford to begin with...lol

[tdizzle]

It's not new anymore. Not sure when BMW first started using it but I have it in my '12 335i. I remember reading much of these same comments about how annoying it was and how people hated it, they didn't buy a luxury/pseudo performance car to save fuel, etc, etc.

I actually wasn't a fan of it either, as in the beginning it was very noticeable when the car turned on/off. I had passengers ask me what was wrong with my bran new car. There were times when it was buggy and wouldn't restart on its on and I had to push the button to restart it. There was a software update a few months after I bought the car that magically fixed all the issues. I don't even notice it turning off most of the time unless I'm looking for it and the restart is seemless now and I haven't had the buggy restart error issue since the update quite some time ago.

All this is to say, it's not as terrible as some make it out to be if you give yourself some time to get used to it. I can see people wanting it off all the time and do what makes sense to you, no judgement either way. You can modulate it to where a slight change in how you brake makes it not turn off or start the car back if you think you're about to need to get moving quickly (or various other 'tricks' to get it restarted with little effort).

To answer the OPs question, yes it does produce more wear on the starter than it would otherwise. BMW uses a much more durable component now (it's been awhile since I really read up on the subject as it's been pushing 3 years now since this topic came up in earnest, at least on a thread I've paid attention to) so it should be a non issue unless you're keeping the car a very long time, but the old components probably would've failed in the same time period anyway with regular use.

As far as the reason BMW implemented this, I believe it was more-so for EPA emissions reasons than mpg. The mpg savings is negligible unless you spent a ton of time sitting in your car not moving.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by SMURFDADDY

3/4 of this thread has been useless information

Here we all are just guessing at how we can be useful for you, but failing

[Propanelgen]

They should have had this as an option only, imho.
I bet noone would tick this on a M3/M4.

[crashtestdummy81]

The simple answer is yes.

Obviously the starter is used each time the engine starts and to this effect the starter and battery are upgraded compared a non ASS car but will still wear out after a certain amount of time.

Most wear on an engine occurs at start up when there is metal to metal contact between the components before the oil gets around the engine. All the while the engine is stopped this vital oil is draining from the components ready for a semi dry start up.

You then have the 2 lovely turbos strapped to the side of the engine which like to spin very fast and take time to spool down once the engine (and oil pump) has stopped. To compound this problem they have a clever anti-lag system which aims to keep them spinning at 120,000rpm right up until the engine stops.

The entire aim of the system is to keep emissions low and MPG high under test conditions. Not that I'm saying it would but if the engine were to die before leaving the test site, as long as the test is complete it would not affect results, and if the test was not complete then a new test would be conducted with a new vehicle.

[SamS]

Originally Posted by crashtestdummy81

The simple answer is yes.

Obviously the starter is used each time the engine starts and to this effect the starter and battery are upgraded compared a non ASS car but will still wear out after a certain amount of time.

Most wear on an engine occurs at start up when there is metal to metal contact between the components before the oil gets around the engine. All the while the engine is stopped this vital oil is draining from the components ready for a semi dry start up.

You then have the 2 lovely turbos strapped to the side of the engine which like to spin very fast and take time to spool down once the engine (and oil pump) has stopped. To compound this problem they have a clever anti-lag system which aims to keep them spinning at 120,000rpm right up until the engine stops.

The entire aim of the system is to keep emissions low and MPG high under test conditions. Not that I'm saying it would but if the engine were to die before leaving the test site, as long as the test is complete it would not affect results, and if the test was not complete then a new test would be conducted with a new vehicle.

My car auto stop starts a hundred plus times a day. If something was going to break, it probably would have by now!

[nachob]

Originally Posted by crashtestdummy81

The simple answer is yes.

Obviously the starter is used each time the engine starts and to this effect the starter and battery are upgraded compared a non ASS car but will still wear out after a certain amount of time.

Most wear on an engine occurs at start up when there is metal to metal contact between the components before the oil gets around the engine. All the while the engine is stopped this vital oil is draining from the components ready for a semi dry start up.

You then have the 2 lovely turbos strapped to the side of the engine which like to spin very fast and take time to spool down once the engine (and oil pump) has stopped. To compound this problem they have a clever anti-lag system which aims to keep them spinning at 120,000rpm right up until the engine stops.

The entire aim of the system is to keep emissions low and MPG high under test conditions. Not that I'm saying it would but if the engine were to die before leaving the test site, as long as the test is complete it would not affect results, and if the test was not complete then a new test would be conducted with a new vehicle.

Yes, I agree and glad someone else doesn't drink BMW Kool-aid. Yes, start stop will cause extra wear especially with Turbos. Unfortunately, they have to do this to meet mileage standards but so long as BMW lets me disable start-stop with a sticky switch, I can live with it. This allows them to produce powerful cars without gas guzzler tax. I do wonder though if BMW can incorporate some sort of post shut off oiling system for the turbos. That would go a long way toward keeping that part alive longer.

The fact is emission and mileage requirements trump durability nowadays. BMW is basing their future on leases which means most owners don't care about the extra wear and tear that will manifest itself after the leases are over.

[Mr. Hankey]

My 2 cents (coming from a guy with a poo avatar) and have nothing to back this up but Auto start stop has been around in Europe for about 15 years now (VW / Audi were very early adopters)...by now I'm sure they have the reliability tuned up to specs on this. Yes more wear on starter, not likely more "metal on metal" contact in the engine as the oil was just circulating and warmed up, so its not like the car was sitting overnight and the oil settled. Not sure about Turbo cooling however and the effects on keeping them cool for those of us who have had turbo timers to allow them to cool down properly for "reliability" in the long term - that would be my primary hesitation with this particular car using A/SS.

So yes more wear, but I doubt significant hit on reliability (i.e. maybe car will be good for 149,000 miles instead of 150,000 if you keep it on all the time before a major malfunction). I personally just can't get used to it in any car I've ever driven with it...freaks me out a bit...and I'm not even on a golf course...sheeesh...

[Kevlar]

Originally Posted by rhk118

Not sure about Turbo cooling however and the effects on keeping them cool for those of us who have had turbo timers to allow them to cool down properly for "reliability" in the long term - that would be my primary hesitation with this particular car using A/SS.

Don't these cars have an electric water pump just for turbo cooling?

[crashtestdummy81]

Yes they do, but that doesn't help with the oil suply to a turbo spooling down from 120 000 rpm

[SamS]

Originally Posted by crashtestdummy81

Yes they do, but that doesn't help with the oil suply to a turbo spooling down from 120 000 rpm

The DME is smart enough to know not to kill the motor if the turbos are spooled. There are dozens of parameters that have to met in order for the car to actually turn off.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by crashtestdummy81

Yes they do, but that doesn't help with the oil suply to a turbo spooling down from 120 000 rpm

I doubt turbos are spinning that hard in stop and go traffic or coming to a stop at a traffic light. Further, as others have stated, there must be a logic in the ECU to prevent shutting the engine down in conditions that could be damageable.

Originally Posted by nachob

Yes, I agree and glad someone else doesn't drink BMW Kool-aid. Yes, start stop will cause extra wear especially with Turbos. I do wonder though if BMW can incorporate some sort of post shut off oiling system for the turbos. That would go a long way toward keeping that part alive longer.

Originally Posted by rhk118

Not sure about Turbo cooling however and the effects on keeping them cool for those of us who have had turbo timers to allow them to cool down properly for "reliability" in the long term - that would be my primary hesitation with this particular car using A/SS.

Originally Posted by Kevlar

Don't these cars have an electric water pump just for turbo cooling?

The turbos are water cooled and have their own circulation systems with a dedicated electrical water pump that can be kept running even when the engine is shut down.

From the S55 Technical manual:

[Mr. Hankey]

That's excellent info...so turbos shouldn't suffer from heat soak then like in the days of yore which would kill them prematurely (10-15 years ago)...with that knowledge I'd be much more comfortable with start/stop (although disclaimer is it still freaks me out with engine shutoff). Props to CanAutM3...above and beyond as usual!

[nachob]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I doubt turbos are spinning that hard in stop and go traffic or coming to a stop at a traffic light. Further, as others have stated, there must be a logic in the ECU to prevent shutting the engine down in conditions that could be damageable.





The turbos are water cooled and have their own circulation systems with a dedicated electrical water pump that can be kept running even when the engine is shut down.

From the S55 Technical manual:

I wasn't referring to cooling. That was the other post. I was referring to lubricating the impeller bearings that continue to spin after engine shut off.

[SMURFDADDY]

I filled up my tank to the brim last night, and will be using this feature for the entire tank to see if it makes any difference. I have a daily 6 mile round trip (all city) commute.

[SMURFDADDY]

UPDATE: Currently pacing to do about 300-310 Miles on this tank. Have a round trip commute of about 6 miles on a daily basis which is 100% city stop and go.

I'm finding the system to be much nicer in the M4 than in the standard 3/4 series as the DCT has no off throttle creep. Transition from brake to throttle allows enough time for the engine to fire up and most times you almost don't even notice the system working other than the sound. So far I'm pretty satisfied with it.

[Richy Rich]

Originally Posted by SMURFDADDY

UPDATE: Currently pacing to do about 300-310 Miles on this tank. Have a round trip commute of about 6 miles on a daily basis which is 100% city stop and go.

I'm finding the system to be much nicer in the M4 than in the standard 3/4 series as the DCT has no off throttle creep. Transition from brake to throttle allows enough time for the engine to fire up and most times you almost don't even notice the system working other than the sound. So far I'm pretty satisfied with it.

Is this an increase from what you see without?

[M4UK]

Originally Posted by Blksnowflake

Thank you for your informative responses, but I care. Traffic can be horrible in Houston and this may save fuel and prevent the cooling system from working extra hard in the summer months.

You need to be driving a Prius mate. Turn ASS off and drive in Sport mode. Minimum. Always.