M4 vs 911 Track Battle at Anglesey (EVO)

[PhillyNate]

Sounds like better rubber is the only necessary upgrade on this car. That has been a recurring theme throughout these reviews. Good showing considering.

[cs4444]

Originally Posted by trinim3

No I meant that the 911 has 295 width tires and the M4 does not. Though to me the M4 has the better stock tires than the 911 (Pirelli Pzeros). Essentially I'm refuting the notion of those saying that the M4's lack of traction/lap times compared to the 911 is because of Michelin PSSs b/c it's not like the 911 has track worthy tires either.

While the M4 may have higher quality tire, the rears on the Porsche are 12 inches wide vs 10 in the M4. So the Porsche has an extra 4 inches of contact area in the rear plus around 400lbs less mass, so its grip advantage is considerable.

Put 11 inch wide PSS on the M4, and 9.5s on the front, and its grip potential would be a closer to the porches.

[///M Power-Belgium]

The only reason why the Carrera was faster is that the engine is over the rear axle and so creates grip on the tires by the weight of the engine ,and exactly that's why it was faster out of the turns !

[turbo8765]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

chalk a lot of that up to shitty tires for track work in a 400whp RWD car like the m4.

PSS are not up to task for multiple laps in a powerful car like the m4.

BUT, doesn't matter that the 991 is quicker to me on a short tight track, I think the 991 is an amzing car too. plus, the feedback from the driver was great on both cars. great watch!

I've tracked the current PSS. They are more than up to the challenge. I've tracked MANY different tires and the PSS are the best street tire BY FAR.

They are amazing.

[JS919]

I wonder what setting he had the throttle in, Sport or Sport Plus? I've found in my M5 that Sport Plus is good if you want burn out, but sport is actually better for controlling the car. He commented about wanting a longer throttle pedal in the M4, which the Sport Plus setting does just the opposite. He may have had a an easier time controlling the car on throttle if it was in Sport.

[clbmw]

M4 is clearly very good. However every Porsche BMW comparison of late has shown the Porsche model to be faster and steering better... The i8 was beaten recently too.

About time BMW did something about this IMO

[PKumarM3]

that is a base 3.4L Carrera w/350hp.

the best way to tell is the kick plates when he got into the car - they say Carrera vs. Carrera S.

this 911 was equipped w/sports chrono - which gives you electric motor mounts and also much better throttle mapping and gear shifting - esp with PDK.

the PCCB (carbon ceramic brakes) are also a welcome addition for non stop braking.

at the end of the day, the M3/4 is a 3/4 series that is juiced up vs. a sports car built from the ground up - the 911.

both cars serve different purposes. great comparison!

[flea333]

Originally Posted by Bomex

Nice little video of them going head to head

Look at the movement in steering wheel difference. Look like the M4 is a Ford car.

[JS919]

Originally Posted by flea333

Look at the movement in steering wheel difference. Look like the M4 is a Ford car.

What? Can you say that again in english? I'm not sure I understand you.

[PKumarM3]

Originally Posted by JS919

What? Can you say that again in english? I'm not sure I understand you.

its quite easy to understand - the m4 requires a shit load of steering input vs. the Porsche.

the amount of input is that of driving a Ford on a track (assuming not a prepped mustang or Ford GT )

[dondula]

He said the BMW m4 performed just like a race car with it's responsiveness.. That's a pretty big compliment coming from a race car driver.

I feel he just needs better tires and maybe more time with the car. Maybe he just had too much power in the corners which is why he lost some time.. He did say just 2mm difference on the accelerator will send the car into a slide.

[PKumarM3]

Originally Posted by dondula

He said the BMW m4 performed just like a race car with it's responsiveness.. That's a pretty big compliment coming from a race car driver.

I feel he just needs better tires and maybe more time with the car. Maybe he just had too much power in the corners which is why he lost some time.. He did say just 2mm difference on the accelerator will send the car into a slide.

throttle mapping is a great thing!

what about if he had better tires on the 991 and more time w/the Porsche? I am sure the Porsche comes out ahead 90/100 times.

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by serieD

^ it's a Carrera

Awesome review. Loved that feedback on the M4. It would be nice for statistics to show it beating the Porsche, but I'd much rather have the hooligan than the convserative car.

Happy hear about the throttle response and the feel. Excellent!

also for us normal folks it would be a drivers race so pretty good.

[ilya335]

Great insight from a pro and pretty great results from both cars. At the end of the day, the Porsche is $20k more than the M3, and that's at base price.

[JS919]

Originally Posted by PKumarM3

its quite easy to understand - the m4 requires a shit load of steering input vs. the Porsche.

the amount of input is that of driving a Ford on a track (assuming not a prepped mustang or Ford GT )

I guess I can rephrase my original comment to the guy that can't compose a sentence.

So are we talking F350 or Fiesta ST? Ford only makes about 100 different models. I'm pretty sure not all of them require same amount of steering input as an M4. So lets say you take a c-max, it might require about a similar amount of steering input as the Carrera because is slow and underpowered and thus easy to drive (I'm not saying the Carrera is slow). Whereas as a Mustang Cobra GT 350 might require more input because it is overpowered for the amount of grip available at the rear tires. So to characterize the M4 steering with the comment "Look like the M4 is a Ford car" is a somewhat vague.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The only reason why the Carrera was faster is that the engine is over the rear axle and so creates grip on the tires by the weight of the engine ,and exactly that's why it was faster out of the turns !

That's one piece to a giant puzzle.

Originally Posted by turbo8765

I've tracked the current PSS. They are more than up to the challenge. I've tracked MANY different tires and the PSS are the best street tire BY FAR.

They are amazing.

Exactly what I was thinking. I can't think of a better road-spec tire than the PSS; tire's are not an excuse for the M4. The only thing keeping it competitive in this situation is its sizeable output advantage. It loses time as soon as braking, cornering, and low speed torque application is introduced.

[FogCityM3]

So people questioning the skills of this pro driver too??????? you have got to be kidding me

[PKumarM3]

also - I don't believe this 911 was equipped with a LSD. That is standard fare on the m3/4

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by PKumarM3

also - I don't believe this 911 was equipped with a LSD. That is standard fare on the m3/4

Standard on the 991.

[FogCityM3]

They do get a little sticky after a few laps, but not the end of the world and are pretty good for a street tire. Once I changed my wheels to a lighter setup vs ZCP and got a BBK, the stickiness was pretty much gone and this is at Laguna Seca (the M4 does have lighter wheels and a better base brake system vs the E9x ZCP). Not to mention the tires run quite a bit lighter than most tires save for PS cups. In hotter climate, not sure how much different that makes vs 70-80 degrees at sea level.

Originally Posted by Year's_End

Really? Do they get overheated and overworked easily? I know they're not cup tires but I've only seen positive feedback on them aside from tread wear issues.

[gthal]

He thought the engine was fantastic. The gearbox was fantastic. The M4 was very responsive and felt like a race car. Great comments. Subjectively, he seemed to "enjoy" the M4 the most. Put a better set of tires on the M4 and it would dial back the torque induced oversteer a bit I'm sure.

I know people who want to dislike the M4 will be all over the lap time difference but people need to remember the 911, even in base form, is way more of a pure sports car and way more money. The result, IMO, is great for the M4 and shows how capable the car really is. Too bad BMW didn't put 305's on it as standard equipment and shifted the weight a tad more to the rear.

[gthal]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

Really? Do they get overheated and overworked easily? I know they're not cup tires but I've only seen positive feedback on them aside from tread wear issues.

PSS are great street tires but they do get very greasy quickly in my experience and you can easily destroy a set in a track weekend. They are probably one of the best dual purpose tires... street and track... but there are much better track oriented tires out there that handle heat better... RE11, AD08R, etc, etc.

When my PSS are toast (likely the end of the summer ) I will put a set of AD-08R on the car for next summer's track season.