See Why the M3 M4 Carbon Fiber driveshaft is so cool (video on CFRP drive shafts)

swamp2 · 12-09-2013, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aajami

That would be super impressive, considering it came out 4 years ago.

The 2001 Mitsubishi Montero had one. The 350Z had one in the Japanese version in 2002. The Mazda RX-8 had one as well in 2003. The Acura RL in 2005. I think maybe even earlier Nissans had them as well. This isn't "new tech" at all.

pkimM3r · 12-09-2013, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aajami

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkim1079

Didnt 370z have cf driveshafts ten years ago?

That would be super impressive, considering it came out 4 years ago.

370/350 same thing. lol. As swamp mentioned above I meant 350z.

But mitsu montero!?

Thats something new.

elitex · 12-09-2013, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swamp2

The 2001 Mitsubishi Montero had one. The 350Z had one in the Japanese version in 2002. The Mazda RX-8 had one as well in 2003. The Acura RL in 2005. I think maybe even earlier Nissans had them as well. This isn't "new tech" at all.

Agreed, def not a new tech.

Tornrider · 01-09-2014, 01:29 PM

The current Shelby GT500 has a CF drive shaft.

JustChris · 01-09-2014, 01:33 PM

Superb, great engineering!

E92M356789 · 01-09-2014, 01:43 PM

That's pretty amazing!

positiveions · 01-09-2014, 02:08 PM

Wow, that's a very good informative video. Thank you for sharing.

b33g33 · 01-09-2014, 02:09 PM

You zink zis is impressive? Vait till you see my driveshaft!

I vill teach you a zing or two about rotating mass ... baby.

aus · 01-09-2014, 02:10 PM

Nice, now imagine an 8,500 RPM redline motor mated with a much lighter shaft??
And couldn't they make the CF piece even lighter if it's that much stonger than the steel one?

.

M3 Adjuster · 01-09-2014, 02:18 PM

impressive. Does this mean that more power is also getting to the ground (compared to a steel driveshaft) due to the fact that there are less drivetrain losses in turning a lighter assembly?

Wozich · 01-09-2014, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

impressive. Does this mean that more power is also getting to the ground (compared to a steel driveshaft) due to the fact that there are less drivetrain losses in turning a lighter assembly?

Yes there is less drivetrain loss with the CF driveshaft, therefore more power goes to the wheels.

W/// · 01-09-2014, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

impressive. Does this mean that more power is also getting to the ground (compared to a steel driveshaft) due to the fact that there are less drivetrain losses in turning a lighter assembly?

It would be such a minuscule number though. It's not like the steel driveshafts are made of spaghetti noodles.

biglare · 01-09-2014, 02:46 PM

Impressive testing results!

Questions for the mighty Swamp:

How much lighter is the CF driveshaft compared to a regular steel one?
How much of a decrease in drivetrain tq loss could we see as a result?

xiliy · 01-09-2014, 02:57 PM

WOW, NICE!

GregW / Oregon · 01-09-2014, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster

impressive. Does this mean that more power is also getting to the ground (compared to a steel driveshaft) due to the fact that there are less drivetrain losses in turning a lighter assembly?

Under steady state speed there would be no difference. Under acceleration there will be a slight difference due to less rotating weight to overcome inertia on, however the moment arm of the mass is very small compared to the road wheels, for instance.

BwoodBMW · 01-09-2014, 03:50 PM

I know that materials exist that have even more promise than CF but as the cost to manufacture this stuff continues to decrease its just going to get more and more exciting. I love that the trend of cars getting heavier and heavier is finally reversing itself without losing the benefit of safety (which has caused a large amount of the bloating over the last 10 years).

m3ct · 01-09-2014, 04:00 PM

That is really impressive how the CF can withstand so much torque, thanks for sharing!

Kadema · 01-09-2014, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Under steady state speed there would be no difference. Under acceleration there will be a slight difference due to less rotating weight to overcome inertia on, however the moment arm of the mass is very small compared to the road wheels, for instance.

Yes, the moment arm is very small, but the rotation speed is very fast and factors in by it's square (proper english??), too, afaik. So the effect might be not so small as you might think. Would be nice if someone could do the math and provide exact or at least well estimated numbers, though.

dlbrooks18 · 01-09-2014, 04:36 PM

Very cool and informative, thanks for the post!

Here's old links if anyone wants to order a custom made CF driveshaft:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133201

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282287

erio · 01-09-2014, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swamp2

The 2001 Mitsubishi Montero had one. The 350Z had one in the Japanese version in 2002. The Mazda RX-8 had one as well in 2003. The Acura RL in 2005. I think maybe even earlier Nissans had them as well. This isn't "new tech" at all.

Yes the GTR uses one as well.

b-thumper · 01-09-2014, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swamp2

The 2001 Mitsubishi Montero had one. The 350Z had one in the Japanese version in 2002. The Mazda RX-8 had one as well in 2003. The Acura RL in 2005. I think maybe even earlier Nissans had them as well. This isn't "new tech" at all.

I can top that. The '96 and '97 Audi A4 was blessed with a CF driveshaft.

Blauweisser · 01-09-2014, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aajami

That would be super impressive, considering it came out 4 years ago.

Funny how how megaphone advertizing is so effective. As another poster has noted, the 2003 Mazda RX-8 came out with a carbon fibre drive shaft. To quote Mazda at the time: "The CFRP propeller shaft weighs 5.8 kg, some 40 % lighter than a comparable steel shaft. A steel shaft must be a two-piece design because of its mass and length, which must be supported by a center bearing, another factor adding to complexities and cost".

Just to rub BMW's nose in it properly, the RX-8 also has a LSD, something else which BMW doesn't offer at that price point. Now don't get me wrong, I love my 125i, but I also loved my RX-8 (except for its gas-guzzling motor).

01-09-2014, 01:29 PM	#26
Tornrider Private 3 Rep 56 Posts Drives: 2002 E46 M3 Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Columbia, MD iTrader: (0)	The current Shelby GT500 has a CF drive shaft.
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01-09-2014, 01:33 PM	#27
JustChris General 17480 Rep 25,110 Posts Drives: Tesla MYRWD Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	Superb, great engineering! __________________ My car made front page of Bimmerpost
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01-09-2014, 01:43 PM	#28
E92M356789 El Jefe 39 Rep 1,345 Posts Drives: e30 325i Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: in Houston, but from Newark, NJ! iTrader: (3)	That's pretty amazing!
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01-09-2014, 02:08 PM	#29
positiveions Lieutenant General 961 Rep 11,722 Posts Drives: 19 Tacoma, 16 Golf wagon Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Upland, CA iTrader: (2) Garage List 2019 Toyota Tacoma [0.00] 2016 VW Golf Sports ... [0.00] 1998 BMW M3 [0.00] 1990 BMW 325is [0.00]	Wow, that's a very good informative video. Thank you for sharing.
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01-09-2014, 02:09 PM	#30
b33g33 Give '///M' Hell! 125 Rep 1,325 Posts Drives: Einser Rex Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Atlanta, GA iTrader: (0)	You zink zis is impressive? Vait till you see my driveshaft! I vill teach you a zing or two about rotating mass ... baby. __________________ The 1 series M is the most badass, coolest, sickest BMW to debut since the 1988 M3. The E30 M3 finally has a successor. Please welcome the stupidly fast, wickedly tempered, awkwardly named, possibly perfect little son of a benchmark - Automobile Magazine, August 2011
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01-09-2014, 02:10 PM	#31
aus Major General 890 Rep 9,031 Posts Drives: Odysse Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Seal Beach, CA iTrader: (10)	Nice, now imagine an 8,500 RPM redline motor mated with a much lighter shaft?? And couldn't they make the CF piece even lighter if it's that much stonger than the steel one? . __________________ Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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01-09-2014, 02:18 PM	#32
M3 Adjuster Banned 7905 Rep 11,785 Posts Drives: 1M, X1 M Sport, E46 325ic Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Dallas, Tx iTrader: (0)	impressive. Does this mean that more power is also getting to the ground (compared to a steel driveshaft) due to the fact that there are less drivetrain losses in turning a lighter assembly?
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01-09-2014, 02:46 PM	#35
biglare Bulldog 482 Rep 3,355 Posts Drives: BMW & Porsche Join Date: May 2008 Location: ? iTrader: (3)	Impressive testing results! Questions for the mighty Swamp: How much lighter is the CF driveshaft compared to a regular steel one? How much of a decrease in drivetrain tq loss could we see as a result? __________________ Prev: Individual F80 M3 - Fjord Blue/Silverstone(interior) \| Fashion Grey(exterior) GTS
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01-09-2014, 02:57 PM	#36
xiliy Lieutenant 57 Rep 596 Posts Drives: Ride BMC Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: SoCal iTrader: (10)	WOW, NICE!
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01-09-2014, 03:50 PM	#38
BwoodBMW Colonel 1861 Rep 2,536 Posts Drives: EFFEIGHTY Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: LA LA land iTrader: (0)	I know that materials exist that have even more promise than CF but as the cost to manufacture this stuff continues to decrease its just going to get more and more exciting. I love that the trend of cars getting heavier and heavier is finally reversing itself without losing the benefit of safety (which has caused a large amount of the bloating over the last 10 years).
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01-09-2014, 04:00 PM	#39
m3ct Lieutenant 351 Rep 458 Posts Drives: 2022 M3 Competition xDrive Bro Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: CT iTrader: (0)	That is really impressive how the CF can withstand so much torque, thanks for sharing!
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01-09-2014, 04:36 PM	#41
dlbrooks18 Brigadier General 161 Rep 3,736 Posts Drives: e90 335i Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (2)	Very cool and informative, thanks for the post! Here's old links if anyone wants to order a custom made CF driveshaft: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133201 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=282287 __________________ 2008 E90 335 Last edited by dlbrooks18; 01-09-2014 at 05:20 PM..
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