Turbolag after changing Intakes?

[ismont]

I dont know... maybe its just me.
I have a M3 '16, no cpk, with some mods.
-Jb4
-Maximum PSI Intakes
-VRSF downpipe

soon also getting new charge pipes.

Thats all the mods...

I think that my car has some turbo lag after changing the stock intakes to the MaxPSI. but still we got on the dyno some good numbers, even dough it was missfired because we didnt have the best mix of fuel and the spark plugs where not change. we made 560hp to the wheel with 93 and e85

but i think the spool is slower with the new intakes... Does any one here has had these? do the stock intakes are better with just the dropping papers change? I'm thinking maybe I need better exhaust flow, to compensate... for the increase intake flow? maybe?

any help will be great...

[aBMWfan]

Originally Posted by ismont

I dont know... maybe its just me.
I have a M3 '16, no cpk, with some mods.
-Jb4
-Maximum PSI Intakes
-VRSF downpipe

soon also getting new charge pipes.

Thats all the mods...

I think that my car has some turbo lag after changing the stock intakes to the MaxPSI. but still we got on the dyno some good numbers, even dough it was missfired because we didnt have the best mix of fuel and the spark plugs where not change. we made 560hp to the wheel with 93 and e85

but i think the spool is slower with the new intakes... Does any one here has had these? do the stock intakes are better with just the dropping papers change? I'm thinking maybe I need better exhaust flow, to compensate... for the increase intake flow? maybe?

any help will be great...

You probably need to switch to flash tune. Piggybacks are a generic tune and don't necessarily get the most of out your car.

Did you buy the JB4 used?

[JDE92M3]

Originally Posted by BenM4Dominate

You probably need to switch to flash tune. Piggybacks are a generic tune and don't necessarily get the most of out your car.

Did you buy the JB4 used?

I truly disagree. Have you tried the Active Autowerke Tune? Maybe less HP/TQ then JB4/flash. But drivability/reliability is amazing, car has had zero issues tracked and for daily use.

JD

[aBMWfan]

Originally Posted by JDE92M3

I truly disagree. Have you tried the Active Autowerke Tune? Maybe less HP/TQ then JB4/flash. But drivability/reliability is amazing, car has had zero issues tracked and for daily use.

JD

Depends how your car acts with a piggyback, the mods you use with the piggyback, and whether you bought the piggyback new or used.

If you disagree, what do you think is contributing to the turbo lag?

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

The JB4 is bar none the best piggyback available for the S55 platform. I'd suggest using one of its unique features, data logging, to evaluate spool speed with the stock intake and with your new intake to compare. A good test is 5th gear starting at 1500rpm, floor it 100%
until say 4000rpm, then compare between the two intakes to see which gets you spooled up fastest.

BMS said during their initial intake development the longer runs to the front of the car resulted in more intake restriction with no benefit in intake air temp or performance, maybe they were on to
something?

Mike

[ismont]

Originally Posted by BenM4Dominate

You probably need to switch to flash tune. Piggybacks are a generic tune and don't necessarily get the most of out your car.

Did you buy the JB4 used?

i did get it used... but we tune the car with the jb4 on map5
i was thinking of going flash tune with HEX, but need more info...
why will a use jb4 give problem? sorry for asking but dont get why...

[ismont]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

The JB4 is bar none the best piggyback available for the S55 platform. I'd suggest using one of its unique features, data logging, to evaluate spool speed with the stock intake and with your new intake to compare. A good test is 5th gear starting at 1500rpm, floor it 100%
until say 4000rpm, then compare between the two intakes to see which gets you spooled up fastest.

BMS said during their initial intake development the longer runs to the front of the car resulted in more intake restriction with no benefit in intake air temp or performance, maybe they were on to
something?

Mike

Maybe BMS did had something!!!
will try that...

Originally Posted by BenM4Dominate

Depends how your car acts with a piggyback, the mods you use with the piggyback, and whether you bought the piggyback new or used.

If you disagree, what do you think is contributing to the turbo lag?

dont know what is contributing...

[aBMWfan]

Originally Posted by ismont

i did get it used... but we tune the car with the jb4 on map5
i was thinking of going flash tune with HEX, but need more info...
why will a use jb4 give problem? sorry for asking but dont get why...

Because the JB4 was used on a previous car that had different calibrations and/ or mods, the JB4 still needs to adjust to your car.

Possibly check the MAF sensors on the intakes as well to make sure everything is installed properly.

The car may also be running lean from the intakes.

Tons of possibilities. Have an experienced tuner take a look at it.

[ismont]

Originally Posted by BenM4Dominate

Because the JB4 was used on a previous car that had different calibrations and/ or mods, the JB4 still needs to adjust to your car.

Possibly check the MAF sensors on the intakes as well to make sure everything is installed properly.

The car may also be running lean from the intakes.

Tons of possibilities. Have an experienced tuner take a look at it.

thanks will do! ASAP!!!

[ismont]

HEX tune, good? it will void my warranty right?
the JB4 i take it out for warranty...

[aBMWfan]

Originally Posted by ismont

HEX tune, good?

I drove my friend's car with HEX tune, OEM DP's and AA mid.

Zero lag, so responsive! @G1n Mast3r

[LOW4LYF]

Originally Posted by ismont

HEX tune, good? it will void my warranty right?
the JB4 i take it out for warranty...

JB4 already did 😉

[aBMWfan]

Originally Posted by Figurka

JB4 already did 😉

+1 JB4's are still detectable even if you remove it.

Where I disagree tho is they won't detect the JB4 unless you need warranty work on the engine, and BMW N/A sends a rep to open up your DME. This is assuming you already remove it before service

Flash tunes are detectable without removing the DME, BMW can remotely notice flash tune installed. And the DME could show signs of tampering

[ismont]

Originally Posted by BenM4Dominate

+1 JB4's are still detectable even if you remove it.

Where I disagree tho is they won't detect the JB4 unless you need warranty work on the engine, and BMW N/A sends a rep to open up your DME. This is assuming you already remove it before service

Flash tunes are detectable without removing the DME, BMW can remotely notice flash tune installed. And the DME could show signs of tampering

thanks didnt know that! LOL
the warranty for which i take my car is only for the changes and the recall... but for everything else, just take it to my tuner.

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by BenM4Dominate

+1 JB4's are still detectable even if you remove it.

Where I disagree tho is they won't detect the JB4 unless you need warranty work on the engine, and BMW N/A sends a rep to open up your DME. This is assuming you already remove it before service

Flash tunes are detectable without removing the DME, BMW can remotely notice flash tune installed. And the DME could show signs of tampering

BMWNA can find traces of a piggyback remotely, as this data is stored in FASTA data and can easily be seen if BMW was looking.

Just because the JB4 reports stock boost back to the DME doesn't mean there aren't other big clues to raised boost that will fall outside of what BMW would consider normal operation at stock boost, if they were looking.

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

The JB4 is bar none the best piggyback available for the S55 platform. I'd suggest using one of its unique features, data logging, to evaluate spool speed with the stock intake and with your new intake to compare. A good test is 5th gear starting at 1500rpm, floor it 100%
until say 4000rpm, then compare between the two intakes to see which gets you spooled up fastest.

BMS said during their initial intake development the longer runs to the front of the car resulted in more intake restriction with no benefit in intake air temp or performance, maybe they were on to
something?

Mike

I agree. I'm not a HUGE fan of the long-run intakes. I think they sound good and maybe kinda look cool and that's about it. They really offer no big decrease in IAT's or increase in power.

[aBMWfan]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

I agree. I'm not a HUGE fan of the long-run intakes. I think they sound good and maybe kinda look cool and that's about it. They really offer no big decrease in IAT's or increase in power.

Plus the filters are more exposed sitting behind the kidney grilles!

[F80Paul]

Keep in mind the Maximum PSI or RK tunes (which I have) intakes don't add any length over stock, as the stock intakes pull air from the same location just the filters are under the hood. I'd personally take these or stock (with k&n) over intakes that pull air from the engine compartment. I don't think the 1ft shorter run will compensate for the air temp difference. I also don't think any quantifiable flow restriction will show up between any of these intake options with stock turbos. The biggest flow restrictions are the inlet tubes and stock comp/turbine wheel sizes.

[aBMWfan]

Originally Posted by F80Paul

Keep in mind the Maximum PSI or RK tunes (which I have) intakes don't add any length over stock, as the stock intakes pull air from the same location just the filters are under the hood. I'd personally take these or stock (with k&n) over intakes that pull air from the engine compartment. I don't think the 1ft shorter run will compensate for the air temp difference. I also don't think any quantifiable flow restriction will show up between any of these intake options with stock turbos. The biggest flow restrictions are the inlet tubes and stock comp/turbine wheel sizes.

Looks like there is at least a few inches added before both MAF sensors on RK Tunes etc. so I'm 100% sure there is added length over stock.

I don't think you've tried high Flow filters on stock intakes. I have and it's a waste, even the BMC ones

Some engine bay variants, Eventuri's, are really smooth and add lots of sound, no issues with heatsoak due to uniqie filter design. These are same length as stock intakes!

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by F80Paul

Keep in mind the Maximum PSI or RK tunes (which I have) intakes don't add any length over stock, as the stock intakes pull air from the same location just the filters are under the hood. I'd personally take these or stock (with k&n) over intakes that pull air from the engine compartment. I don't think the 1ft shorter run will compensate for the air temp difference. I also don't think any quantifiable flow restriction will show up between any of these intake options with stock turbos. The biggest flow restrictions are the inlet tubes and stock comp/turbine wheel sizes.

I understand your line of thinking, but honestly, I've seen TONS of datalogs from lots of different cars and those front-mount intakes don't seem to really help IAT(as measured on the S55) at all really. From my experience, "cold air intakes" don't really do very much in turbocharged applications.

By the time the intake air is compressed by the compressor and enters the charge pipes, the air is heated up considerably and by the time the air reaches the air-to-water intercooler, there is little-to-no difference in charge air temps, between the two types of intakes, as the charge air exits the air-to-water intercooler (which is VERY efficient, BTW).

Another factor that needs to be considered is how much these front-mount intakes restrict airflow to the front heat-exchanger and radiator. Trust me, they are creating some sort of restriction. Now, if it matters or not really, I don't know.

You're 100% correct that the biggest restrictions on the intake system is the inlet tubes and obviously the compressor itself. On the exhaust side, the turbine housing/wheel is a big source of back-pressure, even with these aftermarket turbos - the design only allows for so much improvement over stock.

[F80Paul]

Originally Posted by CaryTheLabelGuy

I understand your line of thinking, but honestly, I've seen TONS of datalogs from lots of different cars and those front-mount intakes don't seem to really help IAT(as measured on the S55) at all really. From my experience, "cold air intakes" don't really do very much in turbocharged applications.

By the time the intake air is compressed by the compressor and enters the charge pipes, the air is heated up considerably and by the time the air reaches the air-to-water intercooler, there is little-to-no difference in charge air temps, between the two types of intakes, as the charge air exits the air-to-water intercooler (which is VERY efficient, BTW).

Another factor that needs to be considered is how much these front-mount intakes restrict airflow to the front heat-exchanger and radiator. Trust me, they are creating some sort of restriction. Now, if it matters or not really, I don't know.

You're 100% correct that the biggest restrictions on the intake system is the inlet tubes and obviously the compressor itself. On the exhaust side, the turbine housing/wheel is a big source of back-pressure, even with these aftermarket turbos - the design only allows for so much improvement over stock.

Do you mean they don't help vs stock? Because I agree with that, they pull air from the same place as stock. Stock is a front mount intake. It's the intakes such as BMS that pull air from the engine compartment that I'd be concerned about IAT's in around town driving situations.

[CaryTheLabelGuy]

Originally Posted by F80Paul

Do you mean they don't help vs stock? Because I agree with that, they pull air from the same place as stock. It's the intakes such as BMS that pull air from the engine compartment that I'd be concerned about IAT's in around town driving situations.

I have measured the stock intakes vs the BMS intakes (which I personally own) and I've seen zero difference in IATs between the two. I wouldn't run the BMS intakes if my testing had gone differently.