2019 911 4GTS twice as good as M3?

[einscot]

i have a line on a new build for the 911 GTS to be spec'd how i want. it would be about 2x what i paid for my M3. i really really want to do it, but i honestly don't know if i can justify that price. is it really that much more incredible? right now after dealing with all the gremlin shit in my M and the idiotic tire clearance issue which no one else seems to be having but me, i'm almost fed up with the f80.. but it's paid off and man that would be a hefty car payment to make that leap.

[JoeFromPA]

No, it's not twice as good. Get that in your mind now. It's just different. Put aside the specs, the reviews, whatever.

Go drive it a few times on different days. Either you are so in love with it that you have to have it, or else you try to make the value argument.

The value argument will never hold up on a brand new, spec'd 911 vs. an m3.

It has to be a personal passion.

If it comes down to dollars, you won't do it. So just agree with yourself now on that point. Either life is short and YOLO, or not.

[einscot]

Originally Posted by JoeFromPA

No, it's not twice as good. Get that in your mind now. It's just different. Put aside the specs, the reviews, whatever.

Go drive it a few times on different days. Either you are so in love with it that you have to have it, or else you try to make the value argument.

The value argument will never hold up on a brand new, spec'd 911 vs. an m3.

It has to be a personal passion.

If it comes down to dollars, you won't do it. So just agree with yourself now on that point. Either life is short and YOLO, or not.

i drove one last december for about 75 miles total and i was impressed, but not so much that i had to buy one on the spot. that said, it was pretty awesome.

you're right though, it's not a linear "it cost twice as much so i'd better be twice as impressed." honestly, when my car is working perfectly, i freaking love it, but the last month or so has been a dreaded nightmare of driving carefully and praying things work correctly

[48Laws]

I’m on my 2nd GTS and 3rd 991. I’ve currently own an F80 and had an e92 as well. Yes! The GTS Is twice as good. More organic driving experience. More presence. More prestige. Dealerships know what you paid and they do their best to keep you happy. Porsche is what BMW could never be, given the demographics and sales strategy of both brands. This car handles tremendously well. Quality is top notch too. It’s worth every dollar spent. The performance feels attached to the car as oppose to an M that feels modified to some degree, from a 3/4 series lineup.

[JoeFromPA]

Originally Posted by einscot

i drove one last december for about 75 miles total and i was impressed, but not so much that i had to buy one on the spot. that said, it was pretty awesome.

you're right though, it's not a linear "it cost twice as much so i'd better be twice as impressed." honestly, when my car is working perfectly, i freaking love it, but the last month or so has been a dreaded nightmare of driving carefully and praying things work correctly

I'm so sorry to hear about your f80.

I have put 46.5k miles on my f80 over 3 years and 8 months and have never had a single issue (except a roof gutter cover came a tad loose at the back - double-sided tape from the dealership fixed it). Everything is wearing beautifully too - from the wheels, paint, interior, exterior panels, trim pieces....hell, the front and rear brakes show they'll last until over 100k miles and I can visually confirm that accuracy. It consumes no oil.

Literally the best car I've ever owned thus far.

It sounds like if you had my experience, you'd be in love, but your experience sours you.

If your car isn't bulletproof, dump it because it causes you a headache. Not because the gts is "worth it", but because your current car causes you more hassle than it's worth.

I would argue that a ~1 year old 991.2 carrera is the better comparison than a GTS if you want a replacmeent.

[Jaymax85]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

I'm on my 2nd GTS and 3rd 991. I've currently own an F80 and had an e92 as well. Yes! The GTS Is twice as good. More organic driving experience. More presence. More prestige. Dealerships know what you paid and they do their best to keep you happy. Porsche is what BMW could never be, given the demographics and sales strategy of both brands. This car handles tremendously well. Quality is top notch too. It's worth every dollar spent. The performance feels attached to the car as oppose to an M that feels modified to some degree, from a 3/4 series lineup.

Wow the fanboy is strong in this one lol

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by Jaymax85

Wow the fanboy is strong in this one lol

So is your insecurity. Lol

[JibSTir13]

einscot I take it there is still no resolution re: the front tire rub with the PS4S?

[Jaymax85]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

So is your insecurity. Lol

How so?

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by Jaymax85

How so?

Because you offered no redeemable counterpoint. I personally believe everyone should own at least one Porsche in his/her lifetime. I don’t feel the same about BMW.

[Stryder]

Originally Posted by einscot

i have a line on a new build for the 911 GTS to be spec'd how i want. it would be about 2x what i paid for my M3. i really really want to do it, but i honestly don't know if i can justify that price. is it really that much more incredible? right now after dealing with all the gremlin shit in my M and the idiotic tire clearance issue which no one else seems to be having but me, i'm almost fed up with the f80.. but it's paid off and man that would be a hefty car payment to make that leap.

No car costing 2x new is going to be 2x as good as another new car, objectively. Economies of scale don't work like that.

If you can afford it and you want it, then you need to just go for it. Reasoning your way out of something you desire even if it's a waste of money is a recipe for bad times.

[einscot]

Originally Posted by JibSTir13

einscot I take it there is still no resolution re: the front tire rub with the PS4S?

i seem to be the only person with this issue somehow, and at this point i'm either considering going back to the 265s in the front, or finding a way to get the fender liner out of the way just that little bit. the dealer is taking another look at it today since the iDrive is all messed up.

i really just want it to be some dumb fender liner issue, so i can just cut it out, but then again, i don't want to screw this thing up and was hoping others would either confirm or deny my issue. it's hard to believe that the 275s being 0.2mm difference would cause that - it would mean the 265s can barely clear as is. which i know is not the case.

[Flacht3]

I have one problem with the GTS...the price is so close to a GT3 that I scratch my head when someone won't just spend an extra 15-20% to get the full blown version of what the GTS is trying to be. I know the GT3 is a bit harder to get an allocation for but if you're patient you can make it happen or go CPO.

I do love the GTS, just not the price in terms of where it's positioned. YMMV

[Jaymax85]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Because you offered no redeemable counterpoint. I personally believe everyone should own at least one Porsche in his/her lifetime. I don't feel the same about BMW.

I have one, quality is the same.. different tools for different tasks.

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by Jaymax85

I have one, quality is the same.. different tools for different tasks.

Quality is not the same nor would you find many that would agree with such sentiments.

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by Stryder

No car costing 2x new is going to be 2x as good as another new car, objectively. Economies of scale don't work like that.

If you can afford it and you want it, then you need to just go for it. Reasoning your way out of something you desire even if it's a waste of money is a recipe for bad times.

Exactly - diminishing returns at the top of the curve. Or a marginally better car will be exponentially more expensive the higher your starting point.

That said, there's no doubt in my mind that the 911 GTS is better than the M4. It's probably better than the M4 GTS. I am both a 911 and M4 owner and don't think I'm being biased.

But you'll never justify the 911 if you need your "return on investment" to be linear. You'll have to resign yourself to the fact that the f8x is a great car and to better it, you'll have to pay a shitload more money

[Jaymax85]

Originally Posted by 48Laws

Quality is not the same nor would you find many that would agree with such sentiments.

Agree to disagree

[JibSTir13]

Originally Posted by einscot

i seem to be the only person with this issue somehow, and at this point i'm either considering going back to the 265s in the front, or finding a way to get the fender liner out of the way just that little bit. the dealer is taking another look at it today since the iDrive is all messed up.

i really just want it to be some dumb fender liner issue, so i can just cut it out, but then again, i don't want to screw this thing up and was hoping others would either confirm or deny my issue. it's hard to believe that the 275s being 0.2mm difference would cause that - it would mean the 265s can barely clear as is. which i know is not the case.

It must be really frustrating to know that others have fitted the same size wheel up front without issue.

I don't recall off the top of my head, but did anyone with an F80 confirm in your other thread that they did not have issues? I remember a bunch of F82 confirmations, which doesn't help the matter.

Hopefully the dealer can resolve the issues.

[einscot]

Originally Posted by JibSTir13

It must be really frustrating to know that others have fitted the same size wheel up front without issue.

I don't recall off the top of my head, but did anyone with an F80 confirm in your other thread that they did not have issues? I remember a bunch of F82 confirmations, which doesn't help the matter.

Hopefully the dealer can resolve the issues.

thanks man - i appreciate the frustration understanding. there were only a handful of other f80s with the 275s in the ps4s thread and i PMed them all and never heard back from any of them. seems most people that had them were on the f82 platform. for the life of me, i can't think of what (in the front wheel well) would be that much different between the 2 platforms that would cause the issue. rear, i could see based on styling and such, but in the front end, it's a head scratcher.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by ItIsChrisM

I have one problem with the GTS...the price is so close to a GT3 that I scratch my head when someone won't just spend an extra 15-20% to get the full blown version of what the GTS is trying to be. I know the GT3 is a bit harder to get an allocation for but if you're patient you can make it happen or go CPO.

I do love the GTS, just not the price in terms of where it's positioned. YMMV

There is a problem. First you need to find a GT3 allocation and second you need to find one without a markup. Odds of that are slim to none.

[KevinM]

First, drive the GTS. Second, consider a slightly used version. Porsche's option system drives me nuts, so if I ever buy one I think will buy a CPO car.

In general, I agree with everyone else in terms of economies of scale. Kind of like with wine. Once you are at the $50/bottle mark, doubling or tripling it will get you a better wine, but rarely one that is three times better.

GL!

[Brosef]

I wouldn't buy a 991 GTS new. car will depreciate almost as quickly as the Carreras (particularly with the 992's around the corner). honestly, I think the best bargain Porsche out there right now is the GT4. way better experience for less money. unless you can really make use of the 911's back seat (i.e. family/kids are at that ideal age where they can fit - they are out of car seats but still small). otherwise, I think a GT4 is a no brainer. won't have the same straight line speed for sure, but it wins on everything else for the driving experience.