F80 comp pack

[shaftwhy]

So motor trend gave high praise to Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio and the M3 comp pack. They said the comp pack fundamentally changed M3. M3 comp pack's power is much more manageable and approaching to limit is much more progressive. Anybody has first hand track experience on M3 vs M3 comp pack?

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by shaftwhy

So motor trend gave high praise to Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio and the M3 comp pack. They said the comp pack fundamentally changed M3. M3 comp pack's power is much more manageable and approaching to limit is much more progressive. Anybody has first hand track experience on M3 vs M3 comp pack?

Yes, at BMW ///M day at LRP.

Comp pack was nice, handling was marginally improved, but not all THAT much different from M3 vanilla. Exhaust did sound meaner, and generated more angry fart noises.
I had posted a review of that event somewhere on these forums, but can't find the link anymore.

If I was in a market for an F8x now, I would probably buy the package, even though I hate everything about those wheels: heavier than 18s or 19s, PITA to clean, just way too busy.

Alfa is a great looking, but notoriously unreliable, car.
It's also priced $8+K above M3!?!?


a

[SYT_Shadow]

Yeah, the reviews for the Quadrifoglio are great, so are the C63S reviews

However, spend a few years tracking and you will see hundreds of M3s and... one? C63 and one? RS4/5

It tells you everything you need to know. The M3/4 is designed to be able to go to the track consistently. Its competitors are not. Which is why you never see them

As street cars and hard parkers, why yes, we can discuss all of them together. But for anything that will go to the track, the M is a cut above the rest

[alz0rz]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Yeah, the reviews for the Quadrifoglio are great, so are the C63S reviews

However, spend a few years tracking and you will see hundreds of M3s and... one? C63 and one? RS4/5

It tells you everything you need to know. The M3/4 is designed to be able to go to the track consistently. Its competitors are not. Which is why you never see them

and 0 Alfa's.

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Yeah, the reviews for the Quadrifoglio are great, so are the C63S reviews

However, spend a few years tracking and you will see hundreds of M3s and... one? C63 and one? RS4/5

It tells you everything you need to know. The M3/4 is designed to be able to go to the track consistently. Its competitors are not. Which is why you never see them

As street cars and hard parkers, why yes, we can discuss all of them together. But for anything that will go to the track, the M is a cut above the rest

So much this. The fact that I was able to put almost 40 track days in a YEAR on my E92 and only had a couple minor things go wrong is a testament to how sturdy the car and BMW's design is. I've also spun out many times into dirt, and no suspension components have broken.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Yeah, the reviews for the Quadrifoglio are great, so are the C63S reviews

However, spend a few years tracking and you will see hundreds of M3s and... one? C63 and one? RS4/5

It tells you everything you need to know. The M3/4 is designed to be able to go to the track consistently. Its competitors are not. Which is why you never see them

As street cars and hard parkers, why yes, we can discuss all of them together. But for anything that will go to the track, the M is a cut above the rest

Blank statement that means nothing. It depends on the demographic of those actually buying the vehicles you mentioned, how many vehicles are being manufactured, and the actual marketing of the particular vehicle.

I put 18 tracks on a Lexus last year and guess what, I saw <2 other Lexus vehicles on track with me during that entire time. Does that mean Lexus cars arent sturdy and thats why no one tracks them? No, of course not; it's just not that simple. FYI, the Lexus had zeros problems during that time, while my M3 ZCP has already had a limp mode error after 2 track events.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Blank statement that means nothing. It depends on the demographic of those actually buying the vehicles you mentioned, how many vehicles are being manufactured, and the actual marketing of the particular vehicle.

I put 18 tracks on a Lexus last year and guess what, I saw <2 other Lexus vehicles on track with me during that entire time. Does that mean Lexus cars arent sturdy and thats why no one tracks them? No, of course not; it's just not that simple. FYI, the Lexus had zeros problems during that time, while my M3 ZCP has already had a limp mode error after 2 track events.

My statement is statistically sound. Hundreds of track days with third party organizations (PCA) and that's the result.

Your statement about one Lexus holding up and one M3 having issues is not statistically sound.

It means the demographic of the Lexus buyer does not care about track use. It is quite logical to conclude that Lexus engineers do not prioritize track use amongst other variables.

This really shouldn't be hard to understand. Marketing and sales has consumer insight to what a brand's customers want. This then prioritizes the scare resources engineering has. Engineering does not put 11 radiators in a car unless the Insights team tells them their customers want that.

You can track a minivan if you want. This does not mean minivan manufacturers are concerned with track use.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

My statement is statistically sound. Hundreds of track days with third party organizations (PCA) and that's the result.

Your statement about one Lexus holding up and one M3 having issues is not statistically sound.

It means the demographic of the Lexus buyer does not care about track use. It is quite logical to conclude that Lexus engineers do not prioritize track use amongst other variables.

This really shouldn't be hard to understand. Marketing and sales has consumer insight to what a brand's customers want. This then prioritizes the scare resources engineering has. Engineering does not put 11 radiators in a car unless the Insights team tells them their customers want that.

You can track a minivan if you want. This does not mean minivan manufacturers are concerned with track use.

Yes, and neither does BMW.....not sure why this is hard for YOU to understand.

It's like half of the M3 owners think they have the BEST car, the BEST track day car, the BEST and most RELIABLE track car, etc. etc. Give me a break. The main objective of BMW is to sell cars, not build track capable cars.

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Yes, and neither does BMW.....not sure why this is hard for YOU to understand.

It's like half of the M3 owners think they have the BEST car, the BEST track day car, the BEST and most RELIABLE track car, etc. etc. Give me a break. The main objective of BMW is to sell cars, not build track capable cars.

I would agree with you if we were talking about a standard 3 series, but we aren't.

The F8X is extremely track capable out of the box. The fact that you can do hot lap after hot lap in ridiculously hot central California weather without the needle budging from the 1/3 position is testament to the amount of engineering work that was spent ensuring that the car could handle itself on the track.

This doesn't take anything away from other cars which have done the same work (New Camaro and its 11 radiators comes to mind), but look at cars like the Z06 that heat soak fairly quickly and you can see that the focus isn't there in the same way.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by redpriest

I would agree with you if we were talking about a standard 3 series, but we aren't.

The F8X is extremely track capable out of the box. The fact that you can do hot lap after hot lap in ridiculously hot central California weather without the needle budging from the 1/3 position is testament to the amount of engineering work that was spent ensuring that the car could handle itself on the track.

This doesn't take anything away from other cars which have done the same work (New Camaro and its 11 radiators comes to mind), but look at cars like the Z06 that heat soak fairly quickly and you can see that the focus isn't there in the same way.

The M3 is a 3 series, it utilizes the same chassis, etc. I see C7 Z51's and 911's lapping all day without issues. The amount of cars at the track is very low compared to the amount of total vehicles sold. Of course there's people out there that have issues with BMW M3s, Chevy C7 Z51s, Porsche 911s, etc. at the track as well.

Sorry guys, I dont want to argue about it. Rough day at work, and I felt like replying to that initial comment. I drive and track an M3 so obviously I enjoy the car. However, I also realize it isnt the best at anything. It's a much more complicated scenario than just saying "how many C63, RS4, S4, XYZ do you see on the track compared to BMWs?" Statistically speaking there's probably even more Chevy's and Porsches at trackdays then BMWs anyway.

Back on topic..

Having driven my own 2016 ZCP with multiple wheel sets on track and in street conditions. I would say the biggest improvement in the ZCP is probably the extra tire width. When I ran the stock 19's with 255/275 it was super loose and immediately felt better when I went back to the 20'' ZCP wheels with 265/285 tires (both sets with MPSS at that time). You wouldn't think that 10mm delta would make such a difference, but it was. However, I'd also say that the biggest improvement you could make to a ZCP would be to add even more tire, as 285 rear is still not enough for the power the M3 has.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Yes, and neither does BMW.....not sure why this is hard for YOU to understand.

It's like half of the M3 owners think they have the BEST car, the BEST track day car, the BEST and most RELIABLE track car, etc. etc. Give me a break. The main objective of BMW is to sell cars, not build track capable cars.

We all have rough days so no worries

I don't think the M3 is the best at everything. Far from it. But it clearly has more focus on track capability than its competitors. So if your thing is track behavior -this is the track subforum- then the M3 has a significant advantage

You see way, way more BMWs on track than Chevys. I was looking at the Z51 Vette before buying a second E9X a few months ago and was horrified that it is not just the Z06 overheats, but the Z51 does as well. Tranny overheating issues just like the GT350R, etc.

[MaX PL]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

We all have rough days so no worries

I don't think the M3 is the best at everything. Far from it. But it clearly has more focus on track capability than its competitors. So if your thing is track behavior -this is the track subforum- then the M3 has a significant advantage

You see way, way more BMWs on track than Chevys. I was looking at the Z51 Vette before buying a second E9X a few months ago and was horrified that it is not just the Z06 overheats, but the Z51 does as well. Tranny overheating issues just like the GT350R, etc.

GT350R has heat issues too? jeez.

I've stopped reading about the fords for a while now so thats the first i'm hearing that.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Yes, and neither does BMW.....not sure why this is hard for YOU to understand.

It's like half of the M3 owners think they have the BEST car, the BEST track day car, the BEST and most RELIABLE track car, etc. etc. Give me a break. The main objective of BMW is to sell cars, not build track capable cars.

I would disagree with you here. The ability of being a dual use car (practical DD and track toy) has been the primary design focus of the M3(4) since its inception with the E30. It is the only "constant" that has not changed through the generations.

There are many "more serious" sports cars that need more extensive mods to sustain regular track use. Many of my track buddies look at me with envy on how little mods I need and how reliable my M3(4)s have been at th track through the years.

[shaftwhy]

I really really enjoy the dual-bility of my M3. I drop off my little ones to day care, do a track day, pick up some grocery and my little ones on the way home. I can't imagine my wife would be so supportive if it's another car.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I would disagree with you here. The ability of being a dual use car (practical DD and track toy) has been the primary design focus of the M3(4) since its inception with the E30. It is the only "constant" that has not changed through the generations.

There are many "more serious" sports cars that need more extensive mods to sustain regular track use. Many of my track buddies look at me with envy on how little mods I need and how reliable my M3(4)s have been at th track through the years.

[shaftwhy]

Thanks a lot for the feedback. I am getting wider tires after this set, hope it will be better!

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Having driven my own 2016 ZCP with multiple wheel sets on track and in street conditions. I would say the biggest improvement in the ZCP is probably the extra tire width. When I ran the stock 19's with 255/275 it was super loose and immediately felt better when I went back to the 20'' ZCP wheels with 265/285 tires (both sets with MPSS at that time). You wouldn't think that 10mm delta would make such a difference, but it was. However, I'd also say that the biggest improvement you could make to a ZCP would be to add even more tire, as 285 rear is still not enough for the power the M3 has.

[shaftwhy]

It might be a coincidence but every time (3 or 4 times last year) I saw a Vette on track, it had overheat issue. C7 often overheat its tranny, the worst was that a C6 blew up its engine.

Small sampling space but I probably wouldn't consider a Vette for a long time now.

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

We all have rough days so no worries

I don't think the M3 is the best at everything. Far from it. But it clearly has more focus on track capability than its competitors. So if your thing is track behavior -this is the track subforum- then the M3 has a significant advantage

You see way, way more BMWs on track than Chevys. I was looking at the Z51 Vette before buying a second E9X a few months ago and was horrified that it is not just the Z06 overheats, but the Z51 does as well. Tranny overheating issues just like the GT350R, etc.

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

We all have rough days so no worries

I don't think the M3 is the best at everything. Far from it. But it clearly has more focus on track capability than its competitors. So if your thing is track behavior -this is the track subforum- then the M3 has a significant advantage

You see way, way more BMWs on track than Chevys. I was looking at the Z51 Vette before buying a second E9X a few months ago and was horrified that it is not just the Z06 overheats, but the Z51 does as well. Tranny overheating issues just like the GT350R, etc.

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I would disagree with you here. The ability of being a dual use car (practical DD and track toy) has been the primary design focus of the M3(4) since its inception with the E30. It is the only "constant" that has not changed through the generations.

There are many "more serious" sports cars that need more extensive mods to sustain regular track use. Many of my track buddies look at me with envy on how little mods I need and how reliable my M3(4)s have been at th track through the years.

Originally Posted by shaftwhy

It might be a coincidence but every time (3 or 4 times last year) I saw a Vette on track, it had overheat issue. C7 often overheat its tranny, the worst was that a C6 blew up its engine.

Small sampling space but I probably wouldn't consider a Vette for a long time now.

I've seen a lot of C7's running around here in the Midwest and never heard of major overheating issues. Do you guys talk to every C7 owner at events to find out? A few friends run a C6 Z06 and C7 Z51 (manuals) in the advanced group around here and I'll never once heard them complain of overheating. Oh, and that was while I was kicking my ass trying to stay in front of them in my ZCP. Again, I know the issue exists since I've been following the corvette-forums for 3 years now, but I don't think it happens nearly as frequently as people think.

Someone mentioned the GT350...whelp that is another seriously track-focused vehicle that has been plagued with overheating issues as well.

The ATSV is a direct competitor. I'd say it's as track-focused as the M3/4, so the BMW does not have a significant advantage there either.

It doesn't take much track experience in the F-series M to realize it's not a track car. Sorry, but what are we arguing about again?!

[shaftwhy]

In my limited experience, F80 is definitely NOT a car only focus on track.

However I think it strikes a great balance among family usage, track fun, durability and affordability. As my little ones grow out of car seats in the future, I can see myself maybe consider 911 with back seats.

A lot of other more "track focused" cars just don't cope well with the critical environment on track with little money and time investing in it even they are more hardcore or faster. I can only see myself getting those in my retirement when time is not the most critical resource in contention any more.

Plus an awesome community like this is a huge factor as well.

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

I've seen a lot of C7's running around here in the Midwest and never heard of major overheating issues. Do you guys talk to every C7 owner at events to find out? A few friends run a C6 Z06 and C7 Z51 (manuals) in the advanced group around here and I'll never once heard them complain of overheating. Oh, and that was while I was kicking my ass trying to stay in front of them in my ZCP. Again, I know the issue exists since I've been following the corvette-forums for 3 years now, but I don't think it happens nearly as frequently as people think.

Someone mentioned the GT350...whelp that is another seriously track-focused vehicle that has been plagued with overheating issues as well.

The ATSV is a direct competitor. I'd say it's as track-focused as the M3/4, so the BMW does not have a significant advantage there either.

It doesn't take much track experience in the F-series M to realize it's not a track car. Sorry, but what are we arguing about again?!

[OhioRiderAaron]

Originally Posted by shaftwhy

In my limited experience, F80 is definitely NOT a car only focus on track.

However I think it strikes a great balance among family usage, track fun, durability and affordability. As my little ones grow out of car seats in the future, I can see myself maybe consider 911 with back seats.

A lot of other more "track focused" cars just don't cope well with the critical environment on track with little money and time investing in it even they are more hardcore or faster. I can only see myself getting those in my retirement when time is not the most critical resource in contention any more.

Plus an awesome community like this is a huge factor as well.

Completely agree. Especially on the community part. That's why I'm back in a BMW now.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

It doesn't take much track experience in the F-series M to realize it's not a track car.

I am not sure what you mean by this. The F8X is clearly not a "track ONLY" car. As I stated before, the F8X is all about the dual capability: practical DD AND track capable.

As I like to say fondly of my ///Ms, they are not the best at anything, but they are second best at everything .

Originally Posted by OhioRiderAaron

Sorry, but what are we arguing about again?

I believe it is this statement that caused the start of the "argument":

"The main objective of BMW is to sell cars, not build track capable cars"

After having done several hundred track days over 16 years in ///M cars, I can attest they are indeed quite track capable . The day they stop making them track capable, I'm out.