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      01-02-2017, 09:24 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Ring "turistenfahrts" are not track days; the ring simply becomes a public toll road without speed limit (on most sections) and anyone is allowed access with any vehicle. There are actual proper track days organized at the ring and registration is quite expensive.
That's exactly right, I suppose when you refer to the ring you mean Nurburgring. I'm not a huge fan of north loop but there is almost weekly access to gt track which is a little less hectic. Even organized events at Spa will cost you no more than 250 Euro (4 x 25 min. sessions).
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      01-02-2017, 09:34 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Warranty P View Post
That's exactly right, I suppose when you refer to the ring you mean Nurburgring. I'm not a huge fan of north loop but there is almost weekly access to gt track which is a little less hectic. Even organized events at Spa will cost you no more than 250 Euro (4 x 25 min. sessions).
250EUR is 350CAD and that's pretty much in line with what we pay here in Canada for a track lapping/HPDE day (200CAD~350CAD depending on track and if HPDE or just lapping).
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      01-02-2017, 10:56 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I think RPChan also includes consumables and amneties in his total track day cost. When you start adding up registration, fuel, tires, brakes, lodging, it quickly goes in the $500~$1000 per day range. But I think it is less depressing not trying to add it up

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1317805
This. The entry fee is always the cheapest part of your day!
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      01-02-2017, 12:40 PM   #48
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I need to reconsider my trackdays, I often go With

http://www.granturismoevents.com

And its 2990euro for this years event on Nurburgring. This is inklusive stay and some food and 2days on green hell.

End 2016 I was at their SPA event, it was 2500euro for2 days on spa and 3 night stays and lunch and dinner inklusive.

Then there is transport of cars and flights and rental cars 1000L of gasoline go easy on a 7 day tour driving on nur. Cup tires and ....we better notlook in to real cost.
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      01-02-2017, 05:04 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Unknown GT4 View Post
I need to reconsider my trackdays, I often go With

http://www.granturismoevents.com

And its 2990euro for this years event on Nurburgring. This is inklusive stay and some food and 2days on green hell.

End 2016 I was at their SPA event, it was 2500euro for2 days on spa and 3 night stays and lunch and dinner inklusive.

Then there is transport of cars and flights and rental cars 1000L of gasoline go easy on a 7 day tour driving on nur. Cup tires and ....we better notlook in to real cost.
Not really a bad price.
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      01-02-2017, 05:30 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
'Ring "turistenfahrts" are not track days; the ring simply becomes a public toll road without speed limit (on most sections) and anyone is allowed access with any vehicle. There are actual proper track days/HPDE-type events organized at the 'ring and registration is quite expensive (500EUR~1000EUR+).
You are just too anal. I would take the Nürburgring Nordschleife Touristenfahrten over any proper "track days" here locally.
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      01-02-2017, 06:27 PM   #51
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250EUR is 350CAD and that's pretty much in line with what we pay here in Canada for a track lapping/HPDE day (200CAD~350CAD depending on track and if HPDE or just lapping).
Cool, that seems reasonable to me. Now when you start talking about thousands of dollars...I'll pass, I don't ball like that.
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      01-02-2017, 07:03 PM   #52
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Cool, that seems reasonable to me. Now when you start talking about thousands of dollars...I'll pass, I don't ball like that.
Yup, you get what you pay for (and usually not much more)
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      01-02-2017, 09:34 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by M4_GTS View Post
You are just too anal.
Coming from the guy who doen't track his car

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Originally Posted by M4_GTS View Post
I would take the Nürburgring Nordschleife Touristenfahrten over any proper "track days" here locally.
Well, not me. While it might be fun for a lap or two, Turistenfahrts are quite risky and fustrating if you want to push and explore the limits of your car like it can be done more safely on a real track day.
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Last edited by CanAutM3; 01-03-2017 at 11:05 AM..
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      01-02-2017, 11:52 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Coming from the guy who doen't track his car

Well, not me. While it might be fun for a lap or two, Turistenfahrts are quite risky and fustrating if you want to push and explore the limits of your car like it can be done on real track day.
I have not tracked my M4 GTS, doesn't mean I have never tracked before. Ive been to a track day in my mkv gti at Mission and it was a complete waste of time of the 2 hours drive each way.

It seems you have a lot of experience at the Nurburgring from the way you talk. But I did not find the Nurburgring dangerous at all on the public days at all, and quite enjoyed it. I think Captain Unknown GT4 and Swiss Chris is a frequent visitor on the public days and from their videos, they seem to be pushing their cars pretty hard and getting good lap times.
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      01-03-2017, 06:25 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by M4_GTS View Post
I have not tracked my M4 GTS, doesn't mean I have never tracked before. Ive been to a track day in my mkv gti at Mission and it was a complete waste of time of the 2 hours drive each way.

It seems you have a lot of experience at the Nurburgring from the way you talk. But I did not find the Nurburgring dangerous at all on the public days at all, and quite enjoyed it. I think Captain Unknown GT4 and Swiss Chris is a frequent visitor on the public days and from their videos, they seem to be pushing their cars pretty hard and getting good lap times.
Maybe I should provide a bit more insight/background on my previous comment. I have a good track buddy of mine that is fortunate enough to spend half his life in Europe and does a fair bit of tracking on both continents. Knowing me and the type of track time I enjoy, he's the one that recommended I avoid turistenfahrts and try to do a proper track day at the 'ring instead. Sadly, because of delays in getting my car serviced, I missed the Nordschleife track day slot I was aiming for during my ED. I could have done some turistenfahrt laps instead, but decided to pass. I did not think it was worth the round trip from where we were staying in Dijon. We are fortunate enough to have many exciting tracks, with events run by solid driving clubs, in relative proximity to where I live for me to "safely" explore the performance of my M4. Hence why I stated that I rather do a local track day instead. But I can understand that if you don't have good local tracks on your side of the country, there is a different motivation.

The point remains though, you cannot compare the cost of 3 turistenfahrt laps with a true track day, at the 'ring or elsewhere. And even if you do 2 hours worth (like you would usually get during a track day) of 'ring turistenfahrt laps at a decent pace , it would cost you north of 350EUR ($500CAD) for registration alone not even counting vehicle consumables.
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Last edited by CanAutM3; 01-04-2017 at 02:59 PM..
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      01-03-2017, 10:50 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M4_GTS View Post
It seems you have a lot of experience at the Nurburgring from the way you talk. But I did not find the Nurburgring dangerous at all on the public days at all, and quite enjoyed it. I think Captain Unknown GT4 and Swiss Chris is a frequent visitor on the public days and from their videos, they seem to be pushing their cars pretty hard and getting good lap times.
Nurburgring is widely known to be one of the most dangerous tracks around. It doesn't take a lot of research to back up these claims.

Here is one of many links on the topic from Jalopnik.

http://jalopnik.com/5851285/why-the-...ngly-dangerous
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      01-03-2017, 12:19 PM   #57
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Some guys are always hyping up the god old green hell. Like you need 1000 of laps to even find your way. Its bull, its all depending on talent. Some drivers never been go instant superfast after 20laps other Will never go fast here even after 1000 laps. Sure respect the track, but do not turn it to a monster that Will bite you as soon as you set fot on track.

Relax and just drive, its just a fast country road.

Drive when wet, you then got the track for your selfe. Here is a few moment when I drive My old CSL.



Just play and have fun, no cars in the wet, and Now you learn the track. End of film its some drift pictures that My friend Jochen at frozenspeed did take. One of them even made it in to his yearbook fotobook.

One must Always be on alert to hit fuel or coolant fluid or oil spil on Touristfharen and they never show flaggs to warn you on TF, a few lights but they Will never tell where. LIGHT could flash yellow as warning but accidente could be several km away.

Thats the Big Safety difference vs trackdays and the crowd of cars on TF.(on trackdays, propper trackdayd they put guys all over track to warn With flaggs of fluid or crash, they do not on TF)

Then again on Trackdays you can Max out, due to no cars and thats dangerus as Well, and if you go off then it over and out due to speed is so high for a fast driver. On TF(touristfharen) you never reach that Big speeds anyway. Also a fast driver in a fast car is more on the brakes than accelerator on Touristfharen at Times it could be fun, but Will never turn out a fast lap.

Drive in the rain, then you got the track for your selfe. I Always do it, so god way to learn to drive a car. But the cup tires back then was slippery, as hell compared to new cup2.

Last edited by Captain Unknown GT4; 01-03-2017 at 03:18 PM..
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      01-04-2017, 06:01 PM   #58
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"Driving" on Nordschleife on a tourist day versus tracking at your local trackday is very different. They are just different experience and explaining more to one that doesn't track their M's is just waste of time.

OP, if you can fork out all the expenses to bring your GTS out to a track, you need to do that at least once.
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      01-04-2017, 06:04 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Nurburgring is widely known to be one of the most dangerous tracks around. It doesn't take a lot of research to back up these claims.

Here is one of many links on the topic from Jalopnik.

http://jalopnik.com/5851285/why-the-...ngly-dangerous
That is the problem. Those who are over ambitious about their driving skill on Nordschleife have this problem. They think it is a real track until they find out it isn't.

Our freeways in the US are also dangerous because of ignorant.
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      01-04-2017, 09:57 PM   #60
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This is correct on the front tire wear but it is not Hoosiers that will fix the problem (actually will make if worse). Car needs more front camber (even for MPSC2), then Hoosiers are a possibility.BBS FI-R come in 19" fitment. Problem is, no one has a solution to the camber issue yet.
John,

Any idea what would be the proper offset for 19's square?

Thanks.
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      01-07-2017, 12:22 AM   #61
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Not sure for a square setup. Tirerack had 19" FI-R listed for a while in staggered size but they took them down for some reason (i haven't tried calling yet to ask them why). I would start there though to see if they know.
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      01-16-2017, 09:51 AM   #62
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