M4 GTS Tested by Jeremy Clarkson on The Grand Tour

[khanyam4]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Why would anyone expect a GT3-RS and M4 anything to be comparable?

The M4 GTs is based off the M4, right? And the M4 is an improvement on a standard 4 series, which is not a sports car or race car. Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this front...and yes, I understand that BMW has put a lot of effort into making the M4 GTS look and feel the part of a sports car.

The GT3-RS, on the other hand, is a true sports car - not a conversion of something else into one. It's simply not a fair comparison.

Now, if BMW attempted to make a true sports car, you could have a much better comparison on your hands.

Thank you man! I'm glad someone have some common sense here.

[BDO]

Originally Posted by khanyam4

Thank you man! I'm glad someone have some common sense here.

Lol. I don't think the point was "it's awful in comparison to the GT3RS", it sounded more like it's awful, full stop. Which agrees with just about any review out there, including Harris. And people here who've driven one.

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by saeedg48

I have to agree w the above quoted statement. He's an AMG guy and totally biased for starters.

The guy said the current M4 was great, the E46 CSL was great, the i8 is what the future could and should be, the 1M is is better than a lotus and a porsche, the M2 was the best M car BMW had ever made etc. etc.

Does that sound biased to you ??

[stevehifi]

Just my humble opinion, I think BMW has lots its way. Ever since they went turbo they have gotten lazy and lost the 'M' recipe. Lightweight - nope, naturally aspirated - nope, roots from the racing circuit - nope.
The M4 GTS is a fat, pseudo racer that is too comprimised for daily driving and at the same time too inadequate for setup and endurance on the track.
-The motor is essentially the same the M3/M4 (forget water injection that's a gimmick)
-The wheels are super heavy and belong on a street car
-They put a rear roll cage (why?) real racers would strip the car and install a proper full cage anyway
-Coilovers installed.. ok anyone can buy a set for $2k

and all this adds up to double the price of a stock m4?

If you can buy a Viper ACR for the same price or less which will absolutely kill this car
on the track.. why bother?. even a mustang gt350R will own this car.. which is even
cheaper than a stock m4.

[cc3]

It was only marginally quicker than the new Boxster S round the track with the professional driver at the wheel. 2 seconds slower than the GT3RS

[ilikebmxbikes]

Different tracks will favor different cars. The gts is an impressive car in its right environment but it just doesn't justify the inflated price and marketing hype behind it. Those two factors alone set unrealistic expectations. The Ford gt350(r)'s price really communicates the opposite and it is a tremendous value and an awesome driving experience. Only problem is... it's a mustang. Jk

[termigni]

Originally Posted by Daaaadadundun

BMW should stop thinking they can take on the 911 with a M3 or M4. They are punching above their own weight.
I have no doubt that BMW has the know how to build a car as good or even better than a 911 but than they should really commit to it and build a totally different car. But stop with the PR bs that BMW doesn't have the need to build a 911 competitor because they have the M3/M4 or the 6 series. Because the fact of the matter is that those cars aren't in the same league.

I've never seen/heard BMW corporate make such a statement that it is competing against 911 with BMW products. What's your source?

It is us that raised the expectations of the 3 series(because these cars are so good) to be able to run with 911s because M3s have actually been better (in some parts) than the 911s over the years. In turn, you have to give credit to BMW being able to turn a small family car into such a competent sports car to go up against the pure sports cars such 911's for half the price. I'm not saying M3 is better than a 911 but it is good enough to be able to be mentioned in the same sentence. Hence why we love BMWs.

On the other hand, Mercedes said they will come out with a 911 competing product and made the AMG GT-S by using 911's as benchmark in its development. And they were successful with it by winning sports car of the year in Motortrend article. IMO BMW does not have balls to make such a commitment. If they had the balls, or wanted to compete with 911, they would've came out with the M8 instead of an i8.

BMW GTS is not a GT3/GT3RS competitor. BMW GTS is only a hardcore M4 that's continuing its heritage of the special M3s (E36 Lightweight, E46CSL, E92 GTS...).

[goj]

We can all have our own opinions of a car. Reviews don't make me like or dislike a car. It's a showcase of the water injection tech, and quite frankly built for one thing: fastest possible 'ring time.

He said the regular M3 is the best all around car out there and it's tough to disagree.

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by termigni

I've never seen/heard BMW corporate make such a statement that it is competing against 911 with BMW products. What's your source?

I think the BMW M representatives, including BMW M CEO Dr. Nitschke, Carsten Pries (Director of Product, BMW M), Albert Biermann (Director of Engineering, BMW M) and Florian Nissl (BMW M4 Exterior Designer) qualifies as a source.

This is what they had to say about their competitors:

[JunkStory]

clarkson's fans love him because he's brutally honest and doesn't sugar coat around stuff.. glad to see he hasn't changed one bit in TGT (haven't watched it yet)

[farns2345]

I'm adadsffadf

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by Gatte

I think the BMW M representatives, including BMW M CEO Dr. Nitschke, Carsten Pries (Director of Product, BMW M), Albert Biermann (Director of Engineering, BMW M) and Florian Nissl (BMW M4 Exterior Designer) qualifies as a source.

This is what they had to say about their competitors:

I don't think that says 911 anywhere

[farns2345]

I'm a huge BMW fan and I visit the site at least once a day as it's very informative when it comes to new product updates and general DIY info. However, today and yesterday some of the comments have just terrible ..for ex. in an article the other day about changing key fobs to be the X5M fob someone commented to say now I can finally not be embarrassed to show my key fob. ? how shallow and insecure are you? In this article, someone said something to the effect that people don't understand the GTS is the car you buy after you've had a GT3 and RS. Really? So in other words buy the better cars first, (review wise anyway) and buy this one when you still have $200k left to burn in your pocket?

[NYAWE60]

Originally Posted by mvigod

Sounds like I made the right decision to buy a GT3 RS and not try to get the M4 GTS!!!

I'm surprised that you'd even question that decision Only a lunatic would choose the GTS over an GT3 RS.

[BoosTonian]

BMW focused to much on making this car fast around the ring that it forgot about everything else.

The car looks fantastic, but that's where it ends. Haven driven both an m4 gts and a gt3 (not even RS), the gt3 feels like a focused car that knows it's purpose.

[psuibmw]

My dealer where I service my cars has an available M4 GTS with crazy markup

[termigni]

Originally Posted by Gatte

I think the BMW M representatives, including BMW M CEO Dr. Nitschke, Carsten Pries (Director of Product, BMW M), Albert Biermann (Director of Engineering, BMW M) and Florian Nissl (BMW M4 Exterior Designer) qualifies as a source.

This is what they had to say about their competitors:

thanks for the attachment but I read it differently. The first sentence says, at least to me, Porsche is what they wish to be; "conceptual spirit" for the brand. We all know BMW is no where near the level of Porsche in terms of driving experience, agility and precision especially after the E92 era or when they went to electric steering. But he's saying they are trying.

The second paragraph actually tells who BMW's direct competitors are. Hence my point, M3 is not a 911 competitor. M3 is RS4 & C63 competitor. but, M3/M4 is so good that we are expecting it to be as good as the 911 GT3.

[M-Pilot]

Originally Posted by psuibmw

My dealer where I service my cars has an available M4 GTS with crazy markup

There are a lot of people willing to pay $20K-$30K over MSRP actually. I have seen one with a $200K markup in Bay Area. The dealer was asking close to $350K. Ridiculous...

[BDO]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

I don't think that says 911 anywhere

You're right, they must have been talking about the Macan.

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

I don't think that says 911 anywhere

Alright Alright. If the BMW M4 GTS was hypothetically competing with a porsche that's not a 911, you tell me which porsche that would be.

[Gatte]

Originally Posted by termigni

thanks for the attachment but I read it differently. The first sentence says, at least to me, Porsche is what they wish to be; "conceptual spirit" for the brand. We all know BMW is no where near the level of Porsche in terms of driving experience, agility and precision especially after the E92 era or when they went to electric steering. But he's saying they are trying.

The second paragraph actually tells who BMW's direct competitors are. Hence my point, M3 is not a 911 competitor. M3 is RS4 & C63 competitor. but, M3/M4 is so good that we are expecting it to be as good as the 911 GT3.

The first sentence says, there are two groups of competitors. The first one is in terms of agility, driving experience, precision etc. which is the porsche.

But the beginning of the sentence does state that there are two groups of competitors. It does not say, that they're trying or are going to try. When he says they're closest to BMW, he means that they're the closest competition.

[jaehshim]

the overall consensus about this F8X M3/M4, in addition to GTS has been "meh..."

against a higher competition 911 GT3, GTS is "meh"
against a lower competition like the american counterparts, GTS is "meh"

BMW had to find ways to make the car better under new circumstances called new emission, and totally failed it + lost its M taste

the new M5 is coming out, a bear sized, now with x drive...

This gen was a total failure, jus waiting to see how they come back with the new M3/M4 line.