Gas shortage due to Harvey - can I safely use 87 octane?

[jimbethesda]

Thanks all, I appreciate it.

My tank is full now, and the supply issue is getting better. I hope it will be fully resolved in a few days.

[CRtoE92]

Originally Posted by M3NDOZA

The 91 here in Cali is 96.

The 91 comes from the average of RON 96 and MON 86. Two separate ways of measuring knock intensity. Europe only uses the RON method. This is what I do at work. Sitting in the refinery lab right now.

Nice to know Good to have a scientist on board

I feel comfortable now

[TT1351]

I think a lot of claims made by octane boosters are misleading. if they say it raises octane by 2 points a lot of people thing 93 octane becomes 95. My understanding is that the 2 points brings it to 93.2. I don't know where I read this, but I did read it somewhere, just an FYI.

[nicknaz]

The only "octane booster" I would use is 100 octane unleaded fuel (so weird CA doesn't have 93 octane but you can find 100 octane at some pumps)

[neilum]

Of course it is ok to run 87 without causing damage to the engine.

Think about it this way - very smart BMW engineers would never create a situation where a user error as simple as putting regular (87) gas into the car will cause engine failure or damage. This is a modern car with all sorts of fail safes knock sensors, advanced ECU etc to keep the engine from detonation or pre-ignition.

These types of fail safes are built into the car, they have to be, or BMW would be completely overrun with service issues. I bet 87 gets put into M3/4/5 all the time whether user error by the driver or gas station attendant.

I wouldn't recommend it, and timing will be pulled severely, but I'd bet you could run 87 for a long time and be just fine (from a standpoint of not hurting the motor). You may only run 12 lbs of boost with little timing but you won't hurt anything.

[Jojipoji]

Unless you are tuned, I wouldn't worry about it, unless you drive like an idiot. Stay out of high boost and wot and you're fine.

[RickFLM4]

Guessing shortages should be resolved by now.

[SanchoDivine]

Originally Posted by neilum

Of course it is ok to run 87 without causing damage to the engine.

Think about it this way - very smart BMW engineers would never create a situation where a user error as simple as putting regular (87) gas into the car will cause engine failure or damage. This is a modern car with all sorts of fail safes knock sensors, advanced ECU etc to keep the engine from detonation or pre-ignition.

These types of fail safes are built into the car, they have to be, or BMW would be completely overrun with service issues. I bet 87 gets put into M3/4/5 all the time whether user error by the driver or gas station attendant.

I wouldn't recommend it, and timing will be pulled severely, but I'd bet you could run 87 for a long time and be just fine (from a standpoint of not hurting the motor). You may only run 12 lbs of boost with little timing but you won't hurt anything.

It really depends on the engine. The higher compression the engine is and if it is force induction vs naturally aspirated can make the octane rating of the gas more critical. My boss's Audi needed to be repaired after running a tank of regular gas. Detonation is a real thing, not some made up myth to scare people into paying more for gas.

[SanchoDivine]

Originally Posted by jimbethesda

Austin is having a gas shortage caused by hurricane Harvey and people panicking. It's gotten a little better, but today I could only find 87 octane. I didn't urgently need it, so I passed.

My question is, if I had to, would a tank of 87 octane cause any damage? I don't care about a short term performance hit while I run 87, it will still be faster than if it has no gas!

I did search, but most responses were focused on why would you spend $70k+ for a car and then save a few bucks on gas. I agree with that comment. I would only buy 87 if it was my only choice. If it will cause damage, I'll just work from home and use Uber until the gas supply issue is resolved.

Thanks!

It's funny how people believe this was all caused by panic buying when more than a 5th of the nation's gas refining was shutdown because of the floods in Houston and thus most of Texas' gas source.

Sure the couple jerks filling 300 gallon tanks prevent several people from getting gas but the reality is the folks buying more gas than they actually need are very few and by now they have already stocked up. There's still a bunch of gas stations without gas because the normal demand for gas combined with the gas trucks having to come from further away were causing the shortage.

Things should be getting back to normal though because the refineries are starting to produce gas again.

[jimbethesda]

Originally Posted by SanchoDivine

It's funny how people believe this was all caused by panic buying when more than a 5th of the nation's gas refining was shutdown because of the floods in Houston and thus most of Texas' gas source.

Sure the couple jerks filling 300 gallon tanks prevent several people from getting gas but the reality is the folks buying more gas than they actually need are very few and by now they have already stocked up. There's still a bunch of gas stations without gas because the normal demand for gas combined with the gas trucks having to come from further away were causing the shortage.

Things should be getting back to normal though because the refineries are starting to produce gas again.

What you're missing is all the gas in storage. Austin gas stations are supplied by a division of Koch Industries located in Austin. Their tanks never ran out. So yes, panic buying was the cause. The refineries weren't down long enough to drain all the gas in storage.

And yes, it's back to normal in Austin.

[SanchoDivine]

Originally Posted by jimbethesda

What you're missing is all the gas in storage. Austin gas stations are supplied by a division of Koch Industries located in Austin. Their tanks never ran out. So yes, panic buying was the cause. The refineries weren't down long enough to drain all the gas in storage.

And yes, it's back to normal in Austin.

Those must be huge tanks to supply hundreds of thousands of cars without running out. This wasn't just Austin, the other big cities like San Antonio and Dallas didn't have gas either. Millions of gas tanks most of which belonged to people who couldn't find gas.

[9SECDD]

Originally Posted by jimbethesda

So I just ran out to fill up while I still had a little more than 1/2 tank of 93. I found only one gas station that had any gas left....but then ran out just before I got up to the front of the line.

I was heading back home, when I saw a fueling truck at another gas station. Not too many cars were there yet, and I was able to fill up with 93.

Of course, my actions (filling up when I didn't really need to) are exactly what is causing this problem. Everyone acts in their own self interest, which then causes problems for everyone.

Which brings me to vent my frustration on anti "price gouging" laws. Isn't "price gouging" just pricing based on supply and demand? What happens when you artificially price goods below the market rate? Shortages!!!

Being able to price gas according to supply and demand, would stop this panic buying. You would have a short period of time where gas was really expensive, but available. Then market forces would bring the price back down.

For now, I will act in my own self interest which is not helping the situation.

Of course this is true. I always cringe when I hear the "price-gouging" arguments. Those ignorant folks should take an economics class.
Always great to stumble upon reason. Bravo.

[akashyap]

I'm in Austin. M3 is parked in garage. Have no gas. Feels bad man. Only have 87 around south Austin.

[hlothery]

No waiting at any of the pumps I saw today around the SA area. Also, plenty of premium available, especially at the Valero stations. Nice to fill up today with premium again, but I really could not tell much difference with regular in the tank for the last week. No knock for sure, maybe down on power a little and maybe less gas mileage. Makes you wonder, you know? Have to admit, though, no WOT pulls while on regular. Almost wish I had tried it. Just sayin".

[jimbethesda]

Originally Posted by SanchoDivine

Those must be huge tanks to supply hundreds of thousands of cars without running out. This wasn't just Austin, the other big cities like San Antonio and Dallas didn't have gas either. Millions of gas tanks most of which belonged to people who couldn't find gas.

Yes, they are huge. You can see from this website, the total U.S. gasoline in storage did not vary that much even while the refineries were down.

On the usage side, 500,000 cars were flooded and not being driven.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...s=WGTSTUS1&f=W

[SanchoDivine]

Originally Posted by jimbethesda

Yes, they are huge. You can see from this website, the total U.S. gasoline in storage did not vary that much even while the refineries were down.

On the usage side, 500,000 cars were flooded and not being driven.

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/Le...s=WGTSTUS1&f=W

That link showed stock numbers for the US not Texas. Some other social forum had a couple guys arguing on why some reserves of gas weren't being used and the other guy saying we have oil reserves not gas reserves because gas has issues in storage and thus doesn't make sense to store it away yada yada.

Texas refines a large percentage of the US' gas not 100% so if stocks remained the same, the other refineries could have stepped up.

I got curious about Texas gas usage and discovered it was 7.1 billion gallons the first half of 2016. That's over 39 million gallons a day. Sure a lot of Houston cars were out of the equation but gas didn't stop being consumed in the rest of the state.

The stock of gas may have been plentiful but the logistics of where it had to come took longer than consumption required. That's why so many gas stations were out of gas. Panic buying being the cause would make more sense if maybe 30% of gas stations ran out of gas but it was more than 90% of gas stations.

The only panic buying I (and a vast majority) did was when my car was a couple miles until bone dry. Was so happy when the pump still had gas when it was finally my turn!

[hlothery]

Local stats in SA, however, clearly demonstrate panic buying. Nearly 2.5 times the normal amount of gas was sold during the last week. I believe this unusual increase in demand, at a time when logistics were difficult, created the shortages. The only explanation for this is hoarding. A friend saw folks filling up the large blue San Antonio city recycle bins with gas. Very unsafe, environmentally unsound, and basically really stupid, given that there was plenty of gas around. Walmart and Napa Auto Parts sold out of all their gas cans of all sizes. Panic leading to hoarding is the only logical explanation. My $.02, anyway.

[Vectors2final]

93 last week, 93 today...

I don't live in Austin proper, anymore.