Gas shortage due to Harvey - can I safely use 87 octane?

[jimbethesda]

Austin is having a gas shortage caused by hurricane Harvey and people panicking. It's gotten a little better, but today I could only find 87 octane. I didn't urgently need it, so I passed.

My question is, if I had to, would a tank of 87 octane cause any damage? I don't care about a short term performance hit while I run 87, it will still be faster than if it has no gas!

I did search, but most responses were focused on why would you spend $70k+ for a car and then save a few bucks on gas. I agree with that comment. I would only buy 87 if it was my only choice. If it will cause damage, I'll just work from home and use Uber until the gas supply issue is resolved.

Thanks!

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by jimbethesda

Austin is having a gas shortage caused by hurricane Harvey and people panicking. It's gotten a little better, but today I could only find 87 octane. I didn't urgently need it, so I passed.

My question is, if I had to, would a tank of 87 octane cause any damage? I don't care about a short term performance hit while I run 87, it will still be faster than if it has no gas!

I did search, but most responses were focused on why would you spend $70k+ for a car and then save a few bucks on gas. I agree with that comment. I would only buy 87 if it was my only choice. If it will cause damage, I'll just work from home and use Uber until the gas supply issue is resolved.

Thanks!

I was also thinking about this. I've heard that it just reduces performance and the engine adjusts for it, but I've also heard that turbos NEED 91 or higher. I'm hoping someone with knowledge can chime in to assist.

[Thescout13]

This has happened to me during a hurricane before. What I did was put roughly 5 gallons of 87. Drove really really carefully, no aggressive accelerations etc. also added an octane booster. Then got my ass to a station with 93 or even 100 to even if out as soon as practical. For that tank with the mixture, still drove carefully. Everything was fine.

It wont kill your car but it may do it some harm if there is long term 87 use.

[Rh6363]

Sorry if this is a stupid question. But what's the real difference between 87/89/91/93?

[Tinilp]

Might be ok if you just put an octane booster with every fill up.

I feel ya with the TX gas shortage/price bump. I heard gas stations were running out as far north as the DFW area this weekend.

[Bimmed Out]

Rent a cheap car until gas access and road conditions return to normal. It won't cost you much and you'll drive worry-free, without any risk of harm to your M3.

[RickFLM4]

I haven't done it with my M but I have put 5 gallons of unused 87 octane into Audi cars before (Q5 and S4) after not needing them for a generator. The difference is that I went to a gas station and topped them off with 93. I can't say I noticed any difference. Under the circumstances, I'd probably add 5 gallons of regular to your tank to mix with higher octane in it and top off with higher octane when available.

What's a little odd about the situation to me is that I typically see lower octane sell out faster after a storm than higher octane. Aside from being cheaper I believe most generators and landscape equipment run off regular but maybe the difference in circumstance (flooding vs. power outages from wind) are reducing demand for lower octane and the panic is increasing demand for higher octane.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by kepler

Rent a cheap car until gas access and road conditions return to normal. It won't cost you much and you'll drive worry-free, without any risk of harm to your M3.

There were probably hundreds of thousands of cars destroyed by the floods in Houston and surrounding areas. I'm guessing those without cars have saturated the TX Market with rental car demand.

[jimbethesda]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

What's a little odd about the situation to me is that I typically see lower octane sell out faster after a storm than higher octane. Aside from being cheaper I believe most generators and landscape equipment run off regular but maybe the difference in circumstance (flooding vs. power outages from wind) are reducing demand for lower octane and the panic is increasing demand for higher octane.

That's what happened at first...stations only had premium. Then they ran out completely. I think now, for whatever reason, they are focusing on resupplying regular.

[Tacoma]

Octane rating defines the stability of the fuel, a lower octane fuel will combust under less pressure than a higher one, which may lead to premature ignition (i.e., the air-fuel mixture ignites before the spark) that can be heard with engine pinging/knocking. Obviously this can do damage to the engine.

Modern engines, however, have octane sensors that detects the type of fuel and retards the spark timing. However, some knocking can still occur under high load conditions such as when you're going uphill or high acceleration, so best to avoid these situations.

BMW engines are high compression and more prone to knocking thus my 2 cents is even though BMW says it's fine (due to sensors doing their job), don't do it. Unless you have no choice, why take the chance? This is only a temporary situation so just go with Uber or other public transportation or car rental until 91+ fuel is available again.

[ArieArie]

Originally Posted by Rh6363

Sorry if this is a stupid question. But what's the real difference between 87/89/91/93?

The lower the octane the more susceptible is the gas to detonation, i.e., explode from compression heat before the spark plug fires. When this happens, you can hear the engine pinging because the gas ignites too close to the piston being at top dead center.. However, modern engines can detect pinging and compensate for low octane..

[jimbethesda]

So I just ran out to fill up while I still had a little more than 1/2 tank of 93. I found only one gas station that had any gas left....but then ran out just before I got up to the front of the line.

I was heading back home, when I saw a fueling truck at another gas station. Not too many cars were there yet, and I was able to fill up with 93.

Of course, my actions (filling up when I didn't really need to) are exactly what is causing this problem. Everyone acts in their own self interest, which then causes problems for everyone.

Which brings me to vent my frustration on anti "price gouging" laws. Isn't "price gouging" just pricing based on supply and demand? What happens when you artificially price goods below the market rate? Shortages!!!

Being able to price gas according to supply and demand, would stop this panic buying. You would have a short period of time where gas was really expensive, but available. Then market forces would bring the price back down.

For now, I will act in my own self interest which is not helping the situation.

[ChuMpion3]

Dealt with this during Sandy. It gets better fast (gas situation). Those suggesting a car rental have no idea what your world is like right now. Hang in there.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by jimbethesda

My question is, if I had to, would a tank of 87 octane cause any damage? I don't care about a short term performance hit while I run 87, it will still be faster than if it has no gas!

CaryTheLabelGuy or CanAutM3 would love to hear your thoughts

[RickFLM4]

Yes, it does sound like you are contributing to the problem if you went to buy gas when it wasn't needed. Of course that is human nature.

I don't think removing anti-gouging laws would automatically stop runs on gas or other supplies. Rather, it would limit access to those with the funds to pay for it. Think about that with something like food, water or hotel rooms. With respect to gas, dramatic increases in prices could also discourage those out helping while people with the means can fill up. Not optimal solution so in emergency situations supply and demand is typically suspended for the greater good until supply is rebalanced.

Perceived shortages have a way of working themselves out over time, although it could take a little while.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

CaryTheLabelGuy or CanAutM3 would love to hear your thoughts

I think the engine ECU should be able to keep the engine safe. I would recommend avoiding high RPM and avoiding WOT pulls alltogether but even more so at low RPM.

[DslDwg]

You should be fine - just don't load up the engine, in other words drive like an old lady and you're fine.

[Harveyd396]

I have a boost gauge on my M3, it is easy to drive and not build any boost. I would imagine the M engine is a low compression engine when the turbo is not producing any boost. Should be able to run 87 octane in a no boost situation, drive it like a Prius.

[nicknaz]

hope you are OK OP.

In your shoes I would get 87 from a "top tier" supplier as a last resort and would keep out of boost.

[FriedPiston]

87 octane is fine for regular driving and/or emergency use. Most, if not all, EFI cars since the early 90s are capable of detecting lower grade fuel, which will automatically trigger the ECU/DME into a de-tuned state.

Specifying premium fuel lets a car manufacturer squeeze out more horsepower. BMW, for example, recommends that all the cars it sells in the United States use premium fuel, but they will run on regular.

“There generally isn’t any harm done to the engine by using lower-octane fuel,” said a BMW spokesman, Thomas Plucinsky. “Because our engines do have very good forms of knock sensing and are able to deal with lower-octane fuels, you will not have any drivability issues. You will, however, lose some of the performance.”

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/03/au.../03OCTANE.html

Thomas Plucinsky, BMW Product and Technology Communications Manager told us all BMW engines are designed to run on 91 octane. All performance testing, including EPA emissions and fuel mileage, is done with 91 octane. However, though BMW is all about performance, their motors will run on 89 or 87 octane without damage. The knock sensors pull the ignition timing back and eliminate detonation. There will be a loss of power and a decrease in fuel mileage, but the size of the horsepower loss and the increase in fuel consumption depends upon many factors, such as ambient temperature, exact formulation of the fuel and driving technique, so BMW does not offer any estimates for operation on lower grade fuels. One not so obvious concern, Mr. Plucinsky noted, is the type and quality of additives the gasoline companies include in the fuel. Premium gasolines may have better additive packages which are more effective keeping fuel systems (particularly injectors) clean and working efficiently, than those in regular grade fuels or off-brand products. Using lower octane or off-brand fuel could be degrading the fuel system over time, setting you up for a repair bill down the line.

Source: http://forum.roadfly.com/threads/126...1#post12615839

The short answer is: it is technically acceptable to use "regular" (lower octane) fuel in a BMW.

Source: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...2&postcount=14

[CRtoE92]

Ive been driven on at least 95 in Europe during my ED trip

I feel very uncomfortable even filling up with 91 in California but that the highest octane we have here

[M3NDOZA]

Originally Posted by CRtoE92

Ive been driven on at least 95 in Europe during my ED trip

I feel very uncomfortable even filling up with 91 in California but that the highest octane we have here

The 91 here in Cali is 96.

The 91 comes from the average of RON 96 and MON 86. Two separate ways of measuring knock intensity. Europe only uses the RON method. This is what I do at work. Sitting in the refinery lab right now.