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      06-25-2014, 04:18 PM   #45
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I feel like someone should review the M4 against its closest rival. The e92 M3. The e92 M3 consistently beat the RS5 in reviews. Why not put the M4 against the only other car that can smash an RS5 and C63 on the track?
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      06-25-2014, 04:24 PM   #46
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The e9x M3 was already faster than the Audi RS5. So what's the big surprise here?
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      06-25-2014, 04:24 PM   #47
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M4 is the Audi camera car, easily pulling away

Wonder what they used for m4? Gtr?
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      06-25-2014, 04:39 PM   #48
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The jounro's are a bit "damned if they do damned if they don't" at the moment with the M3/4.

Everyone wants comparisons but the fundamental problem is that the M4 is the first new-gen car into its segment. Especially regarding its key global competitiion - Audi and Merc.

So they are either comparing it to older products (e.g. RS5), which of course it beats, or cars from difference market segments (911 etc), which of course it tends to lose to.

The meaningful and crucial reviews for most potential buyers will come when the new C63 and Audi XYZ (and some of the other fringe sedan based GT cars, perhaps Jag, Maser etc) come out.

As for the drifting.....all I see when I see these reviewers doing this ad nauseum is a car and tyres being tortured in order to get around a corner slower than you could without said torture. Makes no sense other than as a silly marketing show-boat.
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      06-25-2014, 04:45 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHarris View Post
Great video. This video makes me want to go DCT.... Decisions...
Dont do it. If you wanted a manual, this video should not change that. I am a HUGE fan of Chris Harris (noted manual lover) and even he said the DCT was the transmission to get for this car. But that didnt sway my opinion, and this shouldnt either.

Driving the DCT, you will at times regret not buying the manual. I doubt you'd ever regret not buying the Auto if you opt for the 6-MT.

Thats my opinion at least. Best news is you cant go wrong no matter what you choose.
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      06-25-2014, 04:46 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3roar View Post
I feel like someone should review the M4 against its closest rival. The e92 M3. The e92 M3 consistently beat the RS5 in reviews. Why not put the M4 against the only other car that can smash an RS5 and C63 on the track?
Smash is a big word lol. In the hand of an average driver, the RS5 will be much closer to the M4 in time. With TC off, most drivers will fly off the track.
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      06-25-2014, 04:47 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3roar View Post
I feel like someone should review the M4 against its closest rival. The e92 M3. The e92 M3 consistently beat the RS5 in reviews. Why not put the M4 against the only other car that can smash an RS5 and C63 on the track?
When I get mine in September you and I can review them together and report back. Ive only driven a e92 once and would love to get back in one. Im sure you'd like to see what a e82 drives like as well. Keep in touch and we will make this happen.
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      06-25-2014, 04:52 PM   #52
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Seems to be having more fun in the m...
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      06-25-2014, 04:52 PM   #53
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I can't wait to get one. m4 all the way
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      06-25-2014, 04:53 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mloyalty View Post
After tracking the M4 and the RS5 for 2 days, I can tell you that anybody spending that much money on this Audi is INSANE. Sorry but for th money, you can't beat the new M3 and M4. PERIOD!
I have a feeling the cayman gts will...for less $$$ (not much but less still)
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      06-25-2014, 05:02 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy335 View Post
The jounro's are a bit "damned if they do damned if they don't" at the moment with the M3/4.

Everyone wants comparisons but the fundamental problem is that the M4 is the first new-gen car into its segment. Especially regarding its key global competitiion - Audi and Merc.

So they are either comparing it to older products (e.g. RS5), which of course it beats, or cars from difference market segments (911 etc), which of course it tends to lose to.

The meaningful and crucial reviews for most potential buyers will come when the new C63 and Audi XYZ (and some of the other fringe sedan based GT cars, perhaps Jag, Maser etc) come out.
+1. As for some prior comments:
  1. They chose the RS5 because they view it as the current benchmark in the segment. Seems like a compliment to me. They weren't setting up the M4 to win, it is simply the newest car in its segment.
  2. CCBs make no difference over one lap. It wasn't stacked against the Audi
  3. Would like to see the M4 in a broader shoot-out including a 911. Likely loses on track but will be close in other areas and even better in some (value, practicality.)
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      06-25-2014, 05:34 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trinim3 View Post
Is there a reason why the RS5 is the favorite punching bag of all the european journalists? Auto express has been hating on the RS5 since it first came out. To them if it can't slide then it's no fun. Put the M4 up against a C63 507 or an E92 and tell us something we don't already know
I was on the sales training in Istanbul now, we had the rs5, c63 limited edition and m3/m4. We only did full track driving with the m3 and m4. On the small track we had some fun with all the cars.

You probably understand that I work with BMW and that I like BMW. I have just gotten a deal on an m4 but I was close to buying a c4s also. So it isn't just Bmw, but almost...

Before the testdrive the c63 didn't give me anything, the design just doesn't do it. In Norway 80-90% of cabs are MB. I expected an old am car type of feeling with great sound.
Regarding the rs5 I expected a good car, but with Quattro and the engine pleased in front of the suspension I wasn't looking forward to the technical small test track. I like the design on the rs5, but still it is an Audi.

The BMW I had huge expectations for. And what can I say??
The car is the benchmark.

I was surprised by the handling of both mb and Audi. Greats cars but just don't good enough.
The MB is an old car compared to the other, no dct+++
If you are looking for greats sound so everybody at the boulevard looks at you. Go get it, but I know there is a better car out there for me(for much less money).
The rs5 is also a good car. Nothing wrong with it, just not great. Why do Audi I the dtm race cars with rwd, not Quattro...

The main difference between the Audi and the BMW for me was that when I drove the Audi it was fun and safe. The BMW was more a "beast". It was more than fun to drive, it was joy. It required that I was in to it and it sharpened me. Just what I want. It want be the next widowmaker, but a very good combination of a dd and a trackday car. Not a race car.
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      06-25-2014, 05:34 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilya335 View Post
The e9x M3 was already faster than the Audi RS5. So what's the big surprise here?
No it isn't... check out fast laps. RS5 is faster on more tracks. This has been discussed already
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      06-25-2014, 05:37 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbw View Post
Seems to be having more fun in the m...
This is a repeat of every serious review from the past.
The M3 (and now the M4) blows the competition out of the water every generation, specially the Audi.
Mainly due to better handling, better steering, better engines and a more drivers car (fun) than the Audi, the latter is for posers and the ones who really hasn't got a clue of which is the better car (Brand loyalists).

This new generation is a killer, love it!
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      06-25-2014, 05:44 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron_jeremy View Post
This is a repeat of every serious review from the past.
The M3 (and now the M4) blows the competition out of the water every generation, specially the Audi.
Mainly due to better handling, better steering, better engines and a more drivers car (fun) than the Audi, the latter is for posers and the ones who really hasn't got a clue of which is the better car (Brand loyalists).

This new generation is a killer, love it!
Ot: come and testdrive it at our dealership tomorrow(Oslo)! Pm me if you want
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      06-25-2014, 05:53 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milhouse View Post
The rs5 is also a good car. Nothing wrong with it, just not great. Why do Audi I the dtm race cars with rwd, not Quattro...
Simple answer,DTM rules. All of the DTM cars run a spec chassis. Audi couldn't run Quattro if they wanted to. The only parts that are manufacturer specific are body panels, suspension, and motor.
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      06-25-2014, 06:04 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS919 View Post
Simple answer,DTM rules. All of the DTM cars run a spec chassis. Audi couldn't run Quattro if they wanted to. The only parts that are manufacturer specific are body panels, suspension, and motor.
Aha didn't know that, but I don't know if they would if it was possible!
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      06-25-2014, 06:24 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keto
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 n X5M View Post

In any case, the E92 platform vs. the M4 platform should be the objective comparison. This would demonstrate the progress in evolution of e92 --> F82. How much faster? Don't just take BMW's words... try it yourself.
The only people who want to read those articles (since the outcomes are easy to surmise) are the people still holding onto the previous model, telling themselves that the "bespoke engine" is "the last true M." I don't see why this is somehow more objective than a car that is obviously cross-shopped despite being a few years since introduction. Plus, we've already seen a comparison where the BMW didn't win (vs old C63, Steve Sutcliffe). Guess that's invalid too, because it's old.

The cars people cross-shop with the F80/2 seem to be the RS5, CTS/ATS-V, M5, M235, 911, F-type and C7. These are the comparisons we'll read.
You are referring to a stigma against a feature of the car, the engine.

I have nothing against the turbo. In fact, I have been all for having as many cars and updates as possible. I have owned 4 BMW in 4 years. So, I would love to upgrade my E90. But I may have to wait. And that does not skew my appreciation of cross-segment comparisons.

However, I compared already an F30 loaner to my e90 m3 and there are certain improvements in the chassis, it has something there. I would expect a direct comparison to tell us what really changed among the F8x and an e9x m3. I expect all changes to be a vast improvement.

The comparisons across other non direct competitors are suitable to identify how much these new M cars have gained against what seemed untouchable horizons like those of a GT3 or a turbo 911.

Also, you don't just compete with cars you choose. It is what faces you, and it is always good to estimate your odds.
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      06-25-2014, 06:36 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy335
The jounro's are a bit "damned if they do damned if they don't" at the moment with the M3/4.

Everyone wants comparisons but the fundamental problem is that the M4 is the first new-gen car into its segment. Especially regarding its key global competitiion - Audi and Merc.

So they are either comparing it to older products (e.g. RS5), which of course it beats, or cars from difference market segments (911 etc), which of course it tends to lose to.

The meaningful and crucial reviews for most potential buyers will come when the new C63 and Audi XYZ (and some of the other fringe sedan based GT cars, perhaps Jag, Maser etc) come out.

As for the drifting.....all I see when I see these reviewers doing this ad nauseum is a car and tyres being tortured in order to get around a corner slower than you could without said torture. Makes no sense other than as a silly marketing show-boat.
There will never be a perfect comparison but I agree with you. Everyone loves to say the CTS-V is faster than the E60 M5, it was but did it in the E60s latter years, the original CTS-V was pretty average. This is going to happen again, when the new CTS-V arrives, the American fanboys are going to have a field day when it beats the M5 but guess what, the F10 is already past it's LCI and will likely be in it's last years when the CTS-V finally arrives.

It's all about perspective. What is the better buy today, not which is the better car because you will never have the perfect comparo since all Marques have their own product cycle and makes it difficult to accurately judge.
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      06-25-2014, 06:48 PM   #64
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That Audi is all over the place. Looks clunky.
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      06-25-2014, 06:53 PM   #65
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Here is list of Auto Express Laptimes

M4 gets the 3rd fastest time

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-ca...ess-test-track

Auto Express fastest laps




Car

Time

Power

Weight

Drivetrain

Price (new)



Porsche 911 GT3

1.06.6

469bhp

1,505kg

RWD

£100,540



Porsche 911 Turbo S

1.08.9

552bhp

1,605kg

AWD

£140,852



Nissan GT-R

1.09.3

542bhp

1,740kg

AWD

£76,610



Aston Martin V12 Vantage S

1.10.9

565bhp

1,665kg

RWD

£138,000



Porsche 911 C4 S Cabriolet

1.11.0

400bhp

1,515kg

AWD

£96,619



Porsche Cayman S PDK

1.11.7

325bhp

1,350kg

RWD

£50,705



Porsche 911 C4 S

1.11.8

400bhp

1,445kg

AWD

£88,304



Audi R8 V8

1.12.0

424bhp

1,560kg

AWD

£93,710



Jaguar F-Type V6 S Cabriolet

1.12.2

375bhp

1,597kg

RWD

£67,520



Lotus Evora S

1.12.4

345bhp

1,437kg

RWD

£60,550



Porsche Cayman 2.7

1.12.7

271bhp

1,310kg

RWD

£39,694



Alfa Romeo 4C

1.12.7

270bhp

995kg

RWD

£45,000



Jagaur XFR-S

1.12.7

542bhp

1,987kg

RWD

£79,995



Porsche Cayenne Turbo S

1.13.0

542bhp

2,215kg

AWD

£107,784



Nissan 370Z NISMO

1.13.0

339bhp

1,535kg

RWD

£36,995



Peugeot RCZ-R

1.13.4

266bhp

1,355kg

FWD

£31,995



2003 M3 CSL

1.13.5

355bhp

1,385kg

RWD

£58,000



BMW M235i

1.13.5

326bhp

1,530kg

RWD

£34,260



Mercedes A45 AMG

1.13.8

355bhp

1,555kg

AWD

£38,195



Porsche Cayenne Turbo

1.13.8

493bhp

2,170kg

AWD

£89,324



SEAT Leon Cupra 280

1.13.9

276bhp

1,415kg

FWD

£27,245



RenaultSport Megane Cup

1.14.0

265bhp

1,394kg

FWD

£26,930



Jaguar XFR

1.14.1

503bhp

1,875kg

RWD

£65,415



BMW M135i

1.14.3

316bhp

1,515kg

RWD

£31,375



Volkswagen Golf R

1.14.8

296bhp

1,361kg

AWD

£29,900



VW Golf GTI Performance Pack

1.15.0

227bhp

1,395kg

FWD

£27,105



VW Golf GTI

1.15.6

217bhp

1,395kg

FWD

£26,125



Subaru WRX Sti 320R

1.16.0

316bhp

1,505kg

AWD

£28,274



Read more: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-ca...#ixzz35h4L9wag
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      06-25-2014, 06:58 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS919 View Post
Simple answer,DTM rules. All of the DTM cars run a spec chassis. Audi couldn't run Quattro if they wanted to. The only parts that are manufacturer specific are body panels, suspension, and motor.
Not quite, Audi's engines are built by a third party, Neil Brown Engineering.
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