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      07-09-2014, 08:03 PM   #1
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Supercharged M3 VS M4

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I made a fun dyno comparison of the new F82 M4 "stock" VS a VT2-625 supercharged E92 M3. My M4 arrives next week and we will get it on the dyno for some data logging. Then it's onto the road to see how it compares to our various shop cars including our Mercedes SLS and Black series C63 AMG and of course the supercharged E92 for fun.

Looking at the power the new M4 is making on some early dyno's it is very impressive but I still believe a supercharged E9X running in it's ideal powerband "6K RPM+" will be difficult for even a tuned M4 to beat in a real race, I may be wrong but looking forward to finding out after we tune mine

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      07-09-2014, 08:06 PM   #2
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A 625 car will pull on a stock s55 powered car pretty damn hard imo. Tuned s55 and I think its a drivers race, one I can't wait to see.

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      07-09-2014, 08:06 PM   #3
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The 530-540 whp e85 F80 would be a solid race... but this SC'd motor has some absurd top end... looking forward.
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      07-09-2014, 08:16 PM   #4
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nothing prettier than an ESS S/C M3 dyno. having owned one for 15,000 dangerously fun miles including 10+ track days, I can attest to their absurdity first-hand.

no question the 625 kit will crush it at an airstrip event. I'm more curious to see which of the lower kits the stock F80 can keep pace with.
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      07-09-2014, 08:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brosef View Post
nothing prettier than an ESS S/C M3 dyno. having owned one for 15,000 dangerously fun miles including 10+ track days, I can attest to their absurdity first-hand.

no question the 625 kit will crush it at an airstrip event. I'm more curious to see which of the lower kits the stock F80 can keep pace with.
We have a VT1-550 we plan to run against my stock M4
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      07-09-2014, 08:26 PM   #6
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looking forward to it Roman, can't wait for you guys to get your car and get to work
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      07-09-2014, 08:33 PM   #7
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There will be more E9X M3 hitting the second hand market starting soon, out of warranty, declining prices and ready for modding.
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      07-09-2014, 11:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS
I made a fun dyno comparison of the new F82 M4 "stock" VS a VT2-625 supercharged E92 M3. My M4 arrives next week and we will get it on the dyno for some data logging. Then it's onto the road to see how it compares to our various shop cars including our Mercedes SLS and Black series C63 AMG and of course the supercharged E92 for fun.

Looking at the power the new M4 is making on some early dyno's it is very impressive but I still believe a supercharged E9X running in it's ideal powerband "6K RPM+" will be difficult for even a tuned M4 to beat in a real race, I may be wrong but looking forward to finding out after we tune mine

Ive always supported and defended the ess products after having them on my e46 and e92, don't think the e30-e50 tuned f8x cars would lose to a vt2-625 or anything below that. The e50 tune in it's infancy is putting down ~10 more hp and ~225 more tq than the average 625 car. Down pipes would widen that gap even more. Just saying.
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      07-10-2014, 12:39 AM   #9
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Interesting comparo! Looking forward to the F82 tune!
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      07-10-2014, 03:58 AM   #10
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I think that the FBO+meth M4 will be something close or the same like VT-625 M3.
As Terry showed us, that the car on sport gas can reach 530whp with the stock exhaust...
So the potential is very nice! Like 335i RB turbos + meth with the DCT.
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      07-10-2014, 08:52 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackkk View Post
I think that the FBO+meth M4 will be something close or the same like VT-625 M3.
As Terry showed us, that the car on sport gas can reach 530whp with the stock exhaust...
So the potential is very nice! Like 335i RB turbos + meth with the DCT.

lol. Stock +E50 mix was more powerful than the 625 kit across the boards.

Lets forget about meth for a moment and consider that an FBO M4 on E50 (and not just an alpha tune) will probably yield at least 550whp/600wtq, and I'm being generously low here. VT2-625 is roughly 530/350..and the F8x has more area under the curve as well.

Edit: F8x doesn't even need to touch meth.
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      07-10-2014, 01:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc05e46m3 View Post
lol. Stock +E50 mix was more powerful than the 625 kit across the boards.

Lets forget about meth for a moment and consider that an FBO M4 on E50 (and not just an alpha tune) will probably yield at least 550whp/600wtq, and I'm being generously low here. VT2-625 is roughly 530/350..and the F8x has more area under the curve as well.

Edit: F8x doesn't even need to touch meth.
The most power we have seen the S55 make with tuning on E50 fuel is 539 whp using STD corrections on a dynojet unless I missed it. Sure downpipes might free up a little more but the stock turbos on the S55 are done after 5-6K with high boost which tells me that if you want to push it much further you will need a turbo upgrade. The biggest issue I see with high HP on the F series M3/M4 when its not on the dyno is traction. Most high HP turbo cars are AWD for a reason. The S65 has such impressive top end power along with balanced power delivery when supercharged it makes for a really fast platform. It won't deliver that low end punch like a turbo but wind it out over 6k RPM's and it becomes supercar fast.

For fun if you used the same correction we have seen the highest HP N55 dyno using "STD" a VT2-625 supercharged S65 put down 608 whp SAE on pump gas "70 whp more". This kind of kills your "more powerful than the 625 kit across the boards" theory. There is no doubt that the S55 will make alot more tq and power at lower RPM's but in a race the only power curve that matters for the S65 is what's happening from 7K +. Supercharged E9X M3's have beaten and run with alot of cars that have more power "under the curve" in head to head races over the years like tuned GTR's as you can see in the attached video. This is why im looking forward to how the M3/M4 will do head to head now that I have seen it's dynos.





Last edited by sales@ESSTuning; 07-10-2014 at 06:06 PM.
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      07-10-2014, 01:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
The most power we have seen the N55 make with tuning on E50 fuel is 539 whp using STD corrections on a dynojet unless I missed it. Sure downpipes might free up a little more but the stock turbos on the N55 are done after 5-6K with high boost which tells me that if you want to push it much further you will need a turbo upgrade. The biggest issue I see with high HP on the F series M3/M4 when its not on the dyno is traction. Most high HP turbo cars are AWD for a reason. The S65 has such impressive top end power along with balanced power delivery when supercharged it makes for a really fast platform. It won't deliver that low end punch like a turbo but wind it out over 6k RPM's and it becomes supercar fast.

For fun if you used the same correction we have seen the highest HP N55 dyno using "STD" a VT2-625 supercharged S65 put down 608 whp SAE on pump gas "70 whp more". This kind of kills your "more powerful than the 625 kit across the boards" theory. There is no doubt that the N55 will make alot more tq and power at lower RPM's but in a race the only power curve that matters for the S65 is what's happening from 7K +. Supercharged E9X M3's have beaten and run with alot of cars that have more power "under the curve" in head to head races over the years like tuned GTR's as you can see in the attached video. This is why im looking forward to how the M3/M4 will do head to head now that I have seen it's dynos.

You keep throwing me off saying N55, lol. Anyway:


1. I more than agree that traction is going to be a complete bitch in these cars. Wider and grippier tires will be a must for anyone trying to do some extensive tuning and modification.

2. I missed that the E30/E50 dynos were in STD. The initial 91 dynos that were posted were in SAE, so false assumption that they were going to remain the same. That will account for a significant difference. I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out! Keeping me honest...

3. I will disagree that the stock turbos are "done" above 6K though. They are not making more power, but they are still making power. Terry also didn't spend much time on this though so with further development (and future bolt-ons), I expect it to bring some more power to the table. You're right though, I dont expect to see too much more out of these turbos before an upgrade is necessary.

I know how fast the VT2-625s are since my friend had one, and we had the 93 Octane in VA. It can embarass the hell out of other higher $$$ and higher hp cars unexpectedly and that's what I've always loved about it. I also did love that the SC S65s never ever stopped pulling.

Now that I've looked further into it, these cars are going to be very close.
My predictions:
VT2-625 MT vs F8x Pump tune MT = VT2
VT2-625 DCT vs F8x Pump tune MT = VT2
VT2-625 MT vs F8x Pump tune + E30 MT = F8x
VT2-625 DCT vs F8x Pump tune + E30 DCT = VT2
VT2-625 MT vs F8x Pump tune + E30 DCT = F8x
VT2-625 DCT vs F8x Pump tune + E50 MT = Driver's game
VT2-625 MT vs F8x Pump tune MT FBO E30+ = F8x
VT2-625 DCT vs F8x Pump tune MT FBO E30+ = F8x
VT3-DCT vs anything= VT3


EDIT: Are you guys coming out to NoFlyZone?
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Last edited by jc05e46m3; 07-10-2014 at 01:56 PM.
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      07-10-2014, 04:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc05e46m3 View Post
You keep throwing me off saying N55, lol. Anyway:


1. I more than agree that traction is going to be a complete bitch in these cars. Wider and grippier tires will be a must for anyone trying to do some extensive tuning and modification.

2. I missed that the E30/E50 dynos were in STD. The initial 91 dynos that were posted were in SAE, so false assumption that they were going to remain the same. That will account for a significant difference. I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out! Keeping me honest...

3. I will disagree that the stock turbos are "done" above 6K though. They are not making more power, but they are still making power. Terry also didn't spend much time on this though so with further development (and future bolt-ons), I expect it to bring some more power to the table. You're right though, I dont expect to see too much more out of these turbos before an upgrade is necessary.

I know how fast the VT2-625s are since my friend had one, and we had the 93 Octane in VA. It can embarass the hell out of other higher $$$ and higher hp cars unexpectedly and that's what I've always loved about it. I also did love that the SC S65s never ever stopped pulling.

Now that I've looked further into it, these cars are going to be very close.
My predictions:
VT2-625 MT vs F8x Pump tune MT = VT2
VT2-625 DCT vs F8x Pump tune MT = VT2
VT2-625 MT vs F8x Pump tune + E30 MT = F8x
VT2-625 DCT vs F8x Pump tune + E30 DCT = VT2
VT2-625 MT vs F8x Pump tune + E30 DCT = F8x
VT2-625 DCT vs F8x Pump tune + E50 MT = Driver's game
VT2-625 MT vs F8x Pump tune MT FBO E30+ = F8x
VT2-625 DCT vs F8x Pump tune MT FBO E30+ = F8x
VT3-DCT vs anything= VT3


EDIT: Are you guys coming out to NoFlyZone?
We will be at the next Shift Sector Airfield event. Hopefully there will be some tuned / modded F8X cars to run including ours. The F8X has some very good potential to perform well I think.
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      07-10-2014, 04:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
We will be at the next Shift Sector Airfield event. Hopefully there will be some tuned / modded F8X cars to run including ours. The F8X has some very good potential to perform well I think.
They haven't released the date yet, but I plan on going. NoFlyZone is on Oct 25, and I plan on making that as well. My father is coming out to visit me here and I'm excited to show him what I blow all my money on- and how weak that is compared to what everyone else has! lol. Im working with some people right now for some things on mine, but more to follow. I can't wait to see what you guys come out with! I think the F8x cars have tons of potential but are mostly limited by turbo size and traction thus far. The next year is going to be fun.
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      07-10-2014, 06:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jc05e46m3 View Post
They haven't released the date yet, but I plan on going. NoFlyZone is on Oct 25, and I plan on making that as well. My father is coming out to visit me here and I'm excited to show him what I blow all my money on- and how weak that is compared to what everyone else has! lol. Im working with some people right now for some things on mine, but more to follow. I can't wait to see what you guys come out with! I think the F8x cars have tons of potential but are mostly limited by turbo size and traction thus far. The next year is going to be fun.
I think it is going to be sometime in November.
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      07-10-2014, 07:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
I think it is going to be sometime in November.
Awesome! I should be there as well.
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      07-11-2014, 03:13 PM   #18
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can't wait for update. Congrats on the M4 Roman.
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      07-12-2014, 11:14 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brosef View Post
nothing prettier than an ESS S/C M3 dyno. having owned one for 15,000 dangerously fun miles including 10+ track days, I can attest to their absurdity first-hand.

no question the 625 kit will crush it at an airstrip event. I'm more curious to see which of the lower kits the stock F80 can keep pace with.
We have a VT1-550 we plan to run against my stock M4
Can't wait to see the video of your M4 taking a beating!!

But seriously, I'm sure a stock F8x will have no chance against a VT1-550, my 6-speed, stock cats VT1-535 was dead even with a stock DCT M5 from ~50-200km/h, I can only imagine what a DCT catless VT1-550 would do to a stock M3/M4!

BTW, I finally installed my 550 pulley 2 weeks ago, wow, what a difference it made, I'm going to the drag strip tonight to see how it does, hopefully I will see some 121-122mph traps! In any case, I can't be happier with my kit, thanks again for that!
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      07-12-2014, 08:49 PM   #20
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I used to race my VT2-625 against a local non-intercooled VF550 kit. I pulled on him just barely.... On hot days, our cars were REALLY close. I would pull very slowly.. His car ran cooler all the time and I think that actually helped his car run better. Performance was reasonably close.

I am at 4500' elevation. That must come into play somewhat.

I have done a few pulls against the VF in my M4 and if he's not at full 6000 RPM's, etc I pull on him. Most pulls we are dead even. From what I've seen, our cars are REALLY close.

I've done several pulls at various speeds and his car does not walk mine. Hasn't walked it yet. I'm sure the turbos help more with the elevation but the SC'd M3's were fast cars....no doubt about it. We did lots of runs.

Hope it doesn't sound confusing....but I still do think my SC'd M3 would walk the M4 I think the difference is much smaller than most would expect...it's definitely the case at 4500' elevation. With a Berger tune, I would guess the M4 to be faster....especially in varied conditions and RPM's.
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      07-15-2014, 01:02 PM   #21
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Who really runs E30 or E50 on a daily driver??
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      07-15-2014, 10:12 PM   #22
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I do ))
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