European Auto Source
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   BMW M3 and BMW M4 Forum > BMW F80 M3 / F82 M4 Forum > BMW M3 (F80) and BMW M4 (F82) General Forum

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-11-2017, 03:09 PM   #45
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
2336
Rep
17,009
Posts

Drives: 2015 SO/CSAT F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
You do realize you are comparing it to a BMW right?
Go read the media's experiences with the press cars and you'll see the problem (and then go discuss it in the proper thread ).
__________________
A gen-u-ine BMW eff-eight-zero with them tandem clutches in the transmission and that dad gum sun roof on the top-a da cawr.
Appreciate 3
      08-11-2017, 03:12 PM   #46
wdeerfield
A family of bimmers
United_States
720
Rep
5,765
Posts

Drives: '13 f30, '11 f10
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Clifton Park, NY

iTrader: (0)

i wonder how much IND will charge for their retrofit of their new RKP CF driveshaft.
__________________
2013 EB 335i xdrive | Msport | Coral | DHP | ZPP | ZCW | ZTP | 400M | Coded | MPerformance Bits | M3 Grills | Painted Reflectors | BMS Exhaust Tips | LED Turn Signals
2011 JB 535i xdrive | ZPP | ZSP | ZCW | 6FL | NAV | 331s Square | MPerformance Spoiler | M5 Grills | Painted Reflectors
Appreciate 2
      08-11-2017, 03:16 PM   #47
cbenedic
Jimjamz
cbenedic's Avatar
Australia
38
Rep
165
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 Mineral Grey
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinlevrone View Post
You can always get the Giulia Quadrifoglio, it has the CF driveshaft along with tons of better stuff like more power, better sound, torque vectoring, double-wishbone front suspension, carbon fiber hood.
Hope it comes with a good service plan
__________________
---------------------------------------------
2015 F80 M3 Sedan Mineral Grey/Sakhir Orange
2007 E92 335i Coupe Monaco Blue
2001 E46 330i Sedan Silver
Appreciate 2
      08-11-2017, 03:17 PM   #48
CanAutM3
Lieutenant General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
4495
Rep
13,401
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4 DCT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [4.29]
2006 Audi S4  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
It still doesn't make sense. You don't see them preparing for the rear view camera regulation by adding them in for free do you.

You can have the drive shaft designed/built and ready to go when it is needed while still installing the CF shafts.

Sorry, I don't see how this isn't anything but cost cutting. It makes no logical sense.
Actually, they did make the rear view camera standard BEFORE the regulation kicked-in
__________________
2015 F82 M4
Silverstone / Silverstone / DCT / EDC
MPE / CF Diffuser / CF Mirror caps / CF spoiler / GC Camber plates / Eibach springs
Appreciate 1
minn192942

      08-11-2017, 03:21 PM   #49
minn19
Brigadier General
minn19's Avatar
United_States
2942
Rep
4,950
Posts

Drives: 17 GT350, 16 F150, 16 428 GC
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Minnesota

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Like I say, volume. Regulatory conditions often specify an average over all units, so typically you can get away with some outliers. Naturally they will attack and optimize the volume seller first. Now, as I've already alluded to, sure, this also plays conveniently into the marketing of the CS. Conspiracy? Nah, but of course the automakers are shrewd and no how to game the system to their advantage. I blame the politicians for these loopholes, because I always blame the easy target.
I won't belabor the point so possibly last thought on it. I totally get what you are saying, but it seems odd that the CS wouldn't fall under the regulations. If they make a limited number of a cars can they not include airbags, cats, pedestrian crash rated hoods etc etc and other stuff to make a true track star, but street legal car? As stringent as Germany is about their regulations, I can't see the CS that will be built in the thousands getting an exemption. It isn't that small of a run. Sounds very very fishy that's all. But it also seems like a weird place and time to cut costs as well. So who the hell knows.
Appreciate 1
      08-11-2017, 03:22 PM   #50
minn19
Brigadier General
minn19's Avatar
United_States
2942
Rep
4,950
Posts

Drives: 17 GT350, 16 F150, 16 428 GC
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Minnesota

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Actually, they did make the rear view camera standard BEFORE the regulation kicked-in
Trust me I've heard , I got bad info from my CA and apparently didn't keep up on my reading of it. Thank you for pointing it out in a much more polite fashion.
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 03:25 PM   #51
glennQNYC
Lieutenant Colonel
glennQNYC's Avatar
United_States
510
Rep
1,908
Posts

Drives: M Sport 335i
Join Date: May 2013
Location: North Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 335i  [4.83]
Environmental regulations strike again! Next thing you know BMW's halo car is going to have a 3-cylinder engine! Oh wait...
__________________
Appreciate 6
      08-11-2017, 03:26 PM   #52
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
2336
Rep
17,009
Posts

Drives: 2015 SO/CSAT F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeerfield View Post
i wonder how much IND will charge for their retrofit of their new RKP CF driveshaft.
I was thinking along that same line. The tuners will be beneficiaries of this. No need for a custom piece, either - just use the stock pre-Nov-2017 one. I'm sure that if the emissions equipment is important and really is in the way (rather than just leaving too little clearance for OEM acceptable tolerances) they'll figure out a place to relocate it, or they could just rip it off and code around it (except perhaps for you in the Republic of Kalifornia).
__________________
A gen-u-ine BMW eff-eight-zero with them tandem clutches in the transmission and that dad gum sun roof on the top-a da cawr.
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 03:26 PM   #53
CanAutM3
Lieutenant General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
4495
Rep
13,401
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4 DCT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [4.29]
2006 Audi S4  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Trust me I've heard , I got bad info from my CA and apparently didn't keep up on my reading of it. Thank you for pointing it out in a much more polite fashion.
Sorry for the repeat. I did not realize the thread was already 3 pages long . I was just about to delete my post when you replied .
__________________
2015 F82 M4
Silverstone / Silverstone / DCT / EDC
MPE / CF Diffuser / CF Mirror caps / CF spoiler / GC Camber plates / Eibach springs
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 03:27 PM   #54
mcc3456
Private
United_States
31
Rep
99
Posts

Drives: Best Sedan on Mkt
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: City of Champions

iTrader: (0)

Cost cutting is the only explanation. Shocking deletion!
Appreciate 1
      08-11-2017, 03:31 PM   #55
RPiM5
Major General
RPiM5's Avatar
1056
Rep
7,244
Posts

Drives: Mexico Blue F10 M5(Mika)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Sunny San Diego

iTrader: (0)

Now I'm wondering if the F90 M5 is going to get a CFRP Drive Shaft?
__________________
F10 M5 = iPhone 6 | F90 M5 = iPhone 6S | F93 M8 Gran Coupe = iPhone X

Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 03:34 PM   #56
cwhands
First Lieutenant
118
Rep
397
Posts

Drives: F80 M3 SS/CSAT 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Northern NJ

iTrader: (0)

feels...
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 6
      08-11-2017, 03:38 PM   #57
dkhm3
Colonel
dkhm3's Avatar
United_States
1002
Rep
2,888
Posts

Drives: 2015 MW M3 2016 LBB X5M
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orange County

iTrader: (0)

If you mean cost cutting by the avoidance of developing a new CFRP driveshaft to fit in spite of the new regs, then yes, cost cutting.

It's definitely shitty of bmw to take away a major innovation from the later buyers of such a great car.
__________________
Currently:
2015 M3 2016 X5M

Previously:
1999 M3 2002 M3 2005 S4 2007 335i 2008 X5 4.8i 2008 C63 2011 X5 3.5i M SPORT
Appreciate 1
      08-11-2017, 03:38 PM   #58
Blindside_137
Major General
Blindside_137's Avatar
United_States
1372
Rep
9,067
Posts

Drives: '09 E93 Space Gray 328
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC

iTrader: (1)

How about some new colors
__________________
Eibach Pro kit|Bilstein Sport Shocks|M3 Edition Grilles|Painted Reflectors|Matte Black Vinyl Window Trim|CF Performance Spoiler|35% Tint|19" Satin Black Avant Garde M359|Lux H8 V3|OEM Aero Lip|M3 Side Skirts|M3 Mirrors with Performance CF caps|LCI Tails|M-tech Rear|Duke Dynamics CF Performance Diffuser|Cyba 4.0 Black Chrome
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 03:50 PM   #59
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
2336
Rep
17,009
Posts

Drives: 2015 SO/CSAT F80 M3
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dkhm3 View Post
If you mean cost cutting by the avoidance of developing a new CFRP driveshaft to fit in spite of the new regs, then yes, cost cutting.
Ok, but that's not really cost cutting, that's avoiding cost ballooning.

Its true that there is likely a CFRP solution that would be viable from a technical standpoint, but they also have to work within the margins of the product. No doubt that they have some wiggle room there, sure, but certainly they will have at least explored that idea because they knew exactly how this solution would go over with the enthusiast crowd - with a very loud thud.

Probably they could have located whatever this new filter is somewhere else too, again with more rework at a higher cost to develop and produce the parts.

In the end it's always about money, but money doesn't always mean greed, sometimes it means remaining profitable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blindside_137 View Post
How about some new colors
Steel is a different color from CFRP so turn that frown upside down - a new color driveshaft is incoming soon!
__________________
A gen-u-ine BMW eff-eight-zero with them tandem clutches in the transmission and that dad gum sun roof on the top-a da cawr.
Appreciate 3
      08-11-2017, 03:56 PM   #60
Venere
Private First Class
67
Rep
148
Posts

Drives: Audi A6
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JibSTir13 View Post
How does this impact replacement driveshafts?

If an F8X with a carbon driveshaft needs a replacement driveshaft after the switch-over date, will it get a carbon one or the new steel one?

Seems like it will get the new steel one.
When is the last time you are anyone you know broke a driveshaft on a production car? And after watching that Richard Hammond video it seems quite unlikely that our engines are capable of wrecking the M3/M4 driveshaft. I wouldn't lose sleep over it, but then that's easy for me to say...my March 2017 build M4 came with the CFRP driveshaft AND the free back up camera, so here's to you BMW !!! I love you baby. Oh, sorry for the folks who end up with the steel driveshaft. The "you got shafted" jokes just write themselves here, don't they?
Appreciate 1
      08-11-2017, 04:02 PM   #61
minn19
Brigadier General
minn19's Avatar
United_States
2942
Rep
4,950
Posts

Drives: 17 GT350, 16 F150, 16 428 GC
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Minnesota

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
Sorry for the repeat. I did not realize the thread was already 3 pages long . I was just about to delete my post when you replied .
No problem, it's all good. But, thanks.
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 04:04 PM   #62
dmboone25
Major General
dmboone25's Avatar
United_States
982
Rep
7,505
Posts

Drives: 2017 F80 M3 ZCP/DUC M1200S
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [0.00]
2007 328i  [0.00]
So...if this IS for cost-related reasons (which seems to be the case to me), how much would BMW be saving on each unit? I mean, there was R&D on the steel one, right?
__________________
Current - 2015 981 Cayman S
Past rides: 2014 F22 M235 - MT, CWP / 2011 E82 135 - LBM, N55, DCT / 2008 E82 135 - AW, N54, MT
2007 E92 328 - JB, N52, MT, ZSP (traded in for 135)
2007 E92 328 - JB, N52, MT (retired by a drunk driver)
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 04:11 PM   #63
dkhm3
Colonel
dkhm3's Avatar
United_States
1002
Rep
2,888
Posts

Drives: 2015 MW M3 2016 LBB X5M
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orange County

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
So...if this IS for cost-related reasons (which seems to be the case to me), how much would BMW be saving on each unit? I mean, there was R&D on the steel one, right?
There is minimal r and d on a item that has been developed for a vast majority of cars already. CFRP was unique to just the m3/m4.

I'd imagine they reinforced a steel version they have to fit in a regular 3/4 series, and tested it.
__________________
Currently:
2015 M3 2016 X5M

Previously:
1999 M3 2002 M3 2005 S4 2007 335i 2008 X5 4.8i 2008 C63 2011 X5 3.5i M SPORT
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 04:23 PM   #64
Zeroblade
Explodes on impact
Zeroblade's Avatar
United_States
98
Rep
459
Posts

Drives: 2006 Mazda3
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Behind the wheel

iTrader: (0)

This sucks to hear. Value on 2018 cars built before that period just took a jump. Ideally I'd like to purchase the most current model possible (iron out kinks) but looks like older ones are on the table.
__________________
Yea... yea I got an M(azda)3.... <.<

*work in progress*
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 04:27 PM   #65
glennQNYC
Lieutenant Colonel
glennQNYC's Avatar
United_States
510
Rep
1,908
Posts

Drives: M Sport 335i
Join Date: May 2013
Location: North Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 335i  [4.83]
Interesting that people are "deniers" of the stated explanation that this is due to increased environmental regulations mandating an additional/larger/more-effective fuel filter.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      08-11-2017, 04:29 PM   #66
CanAutM3
Lieutenant General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
4495
Rep
13,401
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4 DCT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [4.29]
2006 Audi S4  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Steel is a different color from CFRP so turn that frown upside down - a new color driveshaft is incoming soon!
__________________
2015 F82 M4
Silverstone / Silverstone / DCT / EDC
MPE / CF Diffuser / CF Mirror caps / CF spoiler / GC Camber plates / Eibach springs
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:21 AM.




f80post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST