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      08-11-2017, 04:43 PM   #67
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I wonder if if also has to do with the vibration issue!!!

Something to think about??..
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      08-11-2017, 04:45 PM   #68
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It is true they made a big deal about CF driveshaft at the time. On the factory tour we were on in 2014, they had a machine that demonstrated how much stronger it was. But, now that I think about it, I can't remember what they were comparing it with.
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      08-11-2017, 04:51 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venere View Post
When is the last time you are anyone you know broke a driveshaft on a production car? And after watching that Richard Hammond video it seems quite unlikely that our engines are capable of wrecking the M3/M4 driveshaft. I wouldn't lose sleep over it, but then that's easy for me to say...my March 2017 build M4 came with the CFRP driveshaft AND the free back up camera, so here's to you BMW !!! I love you baby. Oh, sorry for the folks who end up with the steel driveshaft. The "you got shafted" jokes just write themselves here, don't they?
It's simply a thought as to how that process would play out.

Good to hear you didn't get shafted.

Broken driveshaft on a production car is not unheard of, albeit the shaft was an aftermarket carbon one.
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      08-11-2017, 04:55 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minn19 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Sounds like they are using the space vacated by the CFRP driveshaft (the steel one will have a smaller diameter, presumably) to install some additional emissions equipment that is required to meet new regulatory requirements:
"At a later point in time, a petrol particulate filter (PPF) will be incorporated into the existing installation space in these models in major markets."
Either that or it's BS and they just want to cut costs, or perhaps even that they want to give the CS one more distinguishing characteristic to try to better justify its massive jump in MSRP from the base model M4.
This is what I don't get. Why do the regular M3/4 need this for regulations, but the CS doesn't? Uh ok.

If it isn't needed until a later time then why not continue with the CF shafts until it is required? Are they going require those vehicles to come back in and get the additional emissions equipment? Obviously I kind of doubt it. Sounds like cost cutting to me.
Turning off one supplier and turning off another is not easy. It could have been planned to happen at the same time, and the filter was delayed, or maybe the steel supplier needed to ensure a certain production volume to meet a business case. Of course cost is a factor, but it's not malicious "screw the customer to save a dollar" type stuff. It's the reality of a complex mass production operation.
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      08-11-2017, 05:08 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanuck View Post
It is true they made a big deal about CF driveshaft at the time. On the factory tour we were on in 2014, they had a machine that demonstrated how much stronger it was. But, now that I think about it, I can't remember what they were comparing it with.
They were comparing it to the steel one they are going to use instead, they just didn't know it at the time.
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      08-11-2017, 05:10 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JibSTir13 View Post
It's simply a thought as to how that process would play out.

Good to hear you didn't get shafted.

Broken driveshaft on a production car is not unheard of, albeit the shaft was an aftermarket carbon one.
Ah, the magic word...aftermarket. And broken...both in the same sentence. Hmmmm.
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      08-11-2017, 05:17 PM   #73
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I'll sell my cfrp ds to an owner with the steel ds for only $5,000. Why? Because limited production run
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      08-11-2017, 05:18 PM   #74
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The whole point was it saved weight and was stronger....I wonder if it had stopped becoming cost effective.
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      08-11-2017, 05:19 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
Turning off one supplier and turning off another is not easy. It could have been planned to happen at the same time, and the filter was delayed, or maybe the steel supplier needed to ensure a certain production volume to meet a business case. Of course cost is a factor, but it's not malicious "screw the customer to save a dollar" type stuff. It's the reality of a complex mass production operation.
Uh, yeah, maybe, but the end result of screwing the customer is the same whether it was malicious or an act of God. People that get the steel driveshaft won't be getting the same tech that was presented by BMW themselves as being an essential part of the latest gen M3/M4. They can explain it away all they want, but the reality doesn't change. Next gen M3/M4 will be hybrid, all-wheel drive, steel driveshaft (bet?), and absolutely fantastic pollution compliance, with filters that filter the stuff the other filters already filtered. Wooohooo !!!
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      08-11-2017, 05:20 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
The whole point was it saved weight and was stronger....I wonder if it had stopped becoming cost effective.
Bingo !!! It most likely didn't stop being lighter and stronger.
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      08-11-2017, 05:24 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M_ADDICT View Post
Does anyone have an official press release if it changes the weight of the car and how it drives?
No one would be able to jump from one car to the other and say "ah, this is the steel driveshaft version" from performance alone.

Being a two piece typically, a steel one might have a little slack in the centre u joint. A little clunk as you go from power on to power off. But as it isn't complained about in the rest of the range, no real issue.

As for why, the PPF probably gets hot. If for packaging reasons it needs to sit close to the driveshaft, I can see why they would swap to steel. CF doesn't like heat.
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      08-11-2017, 05:25 PM   #78
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Free M3 to the guy who can tell which car has the CF driveshaft vs the new steel driveshaft in back-to-back test drives.

The "I'm not buying an M3/4 now" posts are cute. Bye Felicia.
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      08-11-2017, 05:26 PM   #79
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I can hear pre-Nov 2017 production M3/M4 value going down.
Time to save some bullets
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      08-11-2017, 05:36 PM   #80
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Would M4 CS production start then November 2017 to line up with steel shafted?
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      08-11-2017, 05:37 PM   #81
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cost cutting while promoting the CS/GTS having more differences. Sad day in the news today for sure.
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      08-11-2017, 05:41 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wah View Post
How can it possibly be the same if they are going from CF to steel when they claimed a 40% weight savings and reduced rotating mass with CF driveshafts over steel?
it's possible. It's call metallurgical engineering vs chemical engineering.

I for one will be interested to see how weight is reduced over CF version. But I doubt BMW will dive into details. It's sort of teaching everyone how the sausage is made...and it might have some proprietary interest.
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      08-11-2017, 05:42 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Interesting that people are "deniers" of the stated explanation that this is due to increased environmental regulations mandating an additional/larger/more-effective fuel filter.
I'm not denying anything. I'm just surprised by the timing and wording.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
Turning off one supplier and turning off another is not easy. It could have been planned to happen at the same time, and the filter was delayed, or maybe the steel supplier needed to ensure a certain production volume to meet a business case. Of course cost is a factor, but it's not malicious "screw the customer to save a dollar" type stuff. It's the reality of a complex mass production operation.
I get that, but I find the timing odd. BMW surely is big enough and can twist enough arms to stop producing the CF shafts for the steel ones when they need them. The wording about making space for the future emission components is odd. If I'm reading that right they are going to produce cars with the steel driveshafts, but those won't have the new emissions equipment yet. I just find this and the explanation odd. Maybe I read it and understand it wrong and the new cars will have the new equipment.

Also, for the US spec cars so is it a US law mandating this or a German one? If the US or other markets don't need them why change it, especially since the US is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) M market.
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      08-11-2017, 05:46 PM   #84
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Here is the link to today's press release: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...m4-convertible
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      08-11-2017, 05:48 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper View Post
Free M3 to the guy who can tell which car has the CF driveshaft vs the new steel driveshaft in back-to-back test drives.

The "I'm not buying an M3/4 now" posts are cute. Bye Felicia.
Then why bother with the expensive of production and //Marketing of the CF ds in the first place?
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      08-11-2017, 05:49 PM   #86
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Why is there a mention of GTS in the original press release to begin with? I thought the GTS production has stopped months ago. Is there going to be second round of GTS coming up?
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      08-11-2017, 05:50 PM   #87
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How Pacific BMW going to spin the difference between the M2 and M4 after November, "BMW M4 features many Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastic (CFRP) parts to reduce weight and optimize speed. Most notably is the CFRP driveshaft - a one-piece unit that reduces rotating mass for a drive with less counteractive momentum." http://www.pacificbmw.com/blog/what-...nd-the-bmw-m4/
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      08-11-2017, 05:53 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntzl View Post
Why is there a mention of GTS in the original press release to begin with? I thought the GTS production has stopped months ago. Is there going to be second round of GTS coming up?
Wouldn't doubt it now to further drive the premium CS/GTS M tax. End of the model cycle is approaching, so special editions galore should popping up for individual country markets, just like the M E90/92.
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