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      11-27-2017, 09:55 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinonz View Post
Just FYI that can be done via coding - disables it in all modes.
I would prefer to be able to turn it on and off in all modes rather than totally defeat it.
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      11-27-2017, 09:57 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I would prefer to be able to turn it on and off in all modes rather than totally defeat it.
Same. I had it coded out originally, but then had a FEM module changed and got cold feet about coding it again. Be nice to see it as an option - I know from the coding group that many want it to be turned on in Sport+ mode too.
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      12-06-2017, 03:22 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Overlake View Post
BMW manual shifts have always played 2nd fiddle to the Porsche/Honda units.
BMW DCTs have always played 2nd fiddle to the Porsche units.
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      12-06-2017, 04:59 PM   #92
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Let's bring this dead horse back to life shall we.

Just watch a few seconds of this Civic Type R review. Ignore the car, just listen to comments about the MT in general.

Jump to 8:41

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      12-06-2017, 05:18 PM   #93
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Pretty amazing that the manual Civic R was only 29/100ths of a second slower around the Streets of Willow than the DCT M2. I would like to drive one of these as I've never cared for FWD in the past, but they sure had a blast with the car on the track and talked about how rapidly it would turn-in without understeer. Too bad Honda doesn't make one of these available without all the boy-racer add-ons.
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      12-06-2017, 05:47 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
Pretty amazing that the manual Civic R was only 29/100ths of a second slower around the Streets of Willow than the DCT M2. I would like to drive one of these as I've never cared for FWD in the past, but they sure had a blast with the car on the track and talked about how rapidly it would turn-in without understeer. Too bad Honda doesn't make one of these available without all the boy-racer add-ons.
Like a Civic R Limited (similar to the '05 STi Limited - which deleted the giant wing).
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      12-07-2017, 12:13 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ImGoingPlaces View Post
6mt is fun but its a lot of work in a city like New York
Been daily driving a manual around the boroughs of NY and on LI for over 12 years now, not discouraged one bit!
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      12-07-2017, 02:32 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Overlake View Post
uh you're missing the point. BMW M as a brand is 2nd fid to Porsche period.
Has not always been the case though:

https://www.caranddriver.com/compari...mparison-tests

It is only with the latest generations that Porsche have moved the 911 more upmarket both in terms of price and performance.
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      12-07-2017, 02:33 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
BMW DCTs have always played 2nd fiddle to the Porsche units.
Not "always"

In this 2009 review, C&D preferred the M-DCT over the PDK.
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      12-07-2017, 02:36 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoof View Post
Been daily driving a manual around the boroughs of NY and on LI for over 12 years now, not discouraged one bit!
I commuted between Long Island and Manhattan in MT cars for years. It never really bothered me but I can't say that I found driving an MT in bumper to bumper traffic and more or less enjoyable than driving an AT in bumper to bumper traffic.

Driving in bumper to bumper rush hour traffic sucks in any car.
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      12-07-2017, 03:01 PM   #99
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Is weird to hear turbo spooling in a Honda product but it looks to be a really fun car.
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      12-07-2017, 03:06 PM   #100
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I think the dct and pdk both have excellent hardware and much of what makes one "better" or preferable is in the software tuning. I actually preferred the dct in my E92 M3 over the PDK in my 991 TTS. The dct was always on, super sharp, no paddle delay, and shotgun like. The PDK was only like that on full throttle as if it were programmed to shift luxurious-like when not on full throttle. But some prefer the latter and thus to them, it is better.

Like Guss-Grott mentioned earlier (or maybe it was a different thread), when he moved from the E92 to the F8x dct, he thought something was wrong. I felt the same way with my Turbo. But I knew the hardware was capable of so much more with a proper tune; and was even better with PDK-S which I wished the TTS had.
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      12-07-2017, 03:37 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post

Driving in bumper to bumper rush hour traffic sucks in any car.

Totally agree.
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      12-07-2017, 06:16 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Overlake View Post
uh no. 911 > anything M.
You are entitled to your opinion, but it isn't fact.
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      12-07-2017, 06:57 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Overlake View Post
so take the pinnacle of any M product today... it falls well short of even the base 911 today. if u don't agree, then it's clear to me you don't get out much mr canadia.


I sure hope you never have to run on a track against CanAutM3 ... Against his ///M, pick any car you want.
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      12-08-2017, 08:00 AM   #104
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Well, while BMW claims they can't make a DCT to support the latest highest power cars, Porsche has been building a PDK far more bulletproof than any BMW DCT for many years that is already handling more power/torque than BMW claims it can't.

Many may remember the R&T 911 Turbo S attempt to break a PDK, and they couldn't even rattle it. Setting out to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the 911, they were going to do 50 back-to-back launch control starts; they lost count and ended up doing 61. Wolfgang Hatz told them there was no limit -- the car can keep it up continually as designed. R&T saw a lot of consistency also with all the runs ripping off 0-60mph between 2.6 and 2.8 seconds for 61 back-to-back launches in a row.
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      12-08-2017, 09:29 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Overlake View Post
so take the pinnacle of any M product today... it falls well short of even the base 911 today. if u don't agree, then it's clear to me you don't get out much mr canadia.
Re-read my posts...
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      12-08-2017, 10:14 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
Well, while BMW claims they can't make a DCT to support the latest highest power cars, Porsche has been building a PDK far more bulletproof than any BMW DCT for many years that is already handling more power/torque than BMW claims it can't.

Many may remember the R&T 911 Turbo S attempt to break a PDK, and they couldn't even rattle it. Setting out to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the 911, they were going to do 50 back-to-back launch control starts; they lost count and ended up doing 61. Wolfgang Hatz told them there was no limit -- the car can keep it up continually as designed. R&T saw a lot of consistency also with all the runs ripping off 0-60mph between 2.6 and 2.8 seconds for 61 back-to-back launches in a row.
Bugattii, which like Porsche is part of VAG, seems to be able to build a DCT that handles 1500 HP.

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      12-08-2017, 10:43 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Bugattii, which like Porsche is part of VAG, seems to be able to build a DCT that handles 1500 HP.
The limitation is more around torque than power. But regardless, the DCT in Chiron can handle up to 1,180lb-ft, more than twice that of the current M-DCT
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      12-08-2017, 10:48 AM   #108
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I am glad we can still choose - having the option is always better than being told how the car will shift gears.

The problem for most (me included) is the general availability of a MT car to test drive at your local dealer. No one has one, but there multiple DCT equipped options there to test. Therefore, it is quite easy to get comfortable with the DCT and determine if you like it...on the MT, youíre forced to order the car, and hope when it shows up that you are good with the way the gearbox is situated.

Iíve driven many more manuals than autos in my life, and the distance of the throw, relative weight of the clutch pedal, positioning of the pedals themselves (amongst other things) can vary wildly, even within a brand like BMW....so itís really a leap of faith if you choose the manual, because it is much more difficult to truly get a feel for it prior to purchase.

The cynic in me thinks that companies like BMW (and Porsche too) are doing this on purpose. They probably donít want to offer a manual forever, for various and obvious reasons. I might have gotten a manual in my 981 or F80, but after visiting multiple dealers in the DFW area (in 2015 for the 981 and in March this year for the F80), none had even one for me to test. Even if your car is a three year lease, thatís a long time to live with something that you arenít sure how it will feel....so the PDK and DCT were my choices. Great transmissions, and I have no regrets at all. You just have to be committed to get a manual.
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      12-08-2017, 12:21 PM   #109
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aka hobbyist. no one cares.
Which is why you, a short-timer, started a dick measuring contest - cause you don't care about dick size ... See, experience will eventually teach you that the thing with dick measuring contests is the people who always start them, always lose.
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Bugattii, which like Porsche is part of VAG, seems to be able to build a DCT that handles 1500 HP.
Well, to be fair, those DCTs are in cars a bit more expensive than an M3
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      12-08-2017, 12:25 PM   #110
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I test drove the DCT and ordered the 6-speed.

DCT was fun during the test drive - insanely quick shifts. But it just didn't evoke the same emotion and level of engagement I was looking for.

To be sure, if time is all that mattered to me then DCT would certainly be my choice. Having said that, my F80 is pretty much a DD, and for my needs the manual is the better choice.
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