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      11-30-2017, 08:34 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
I don't think anyone meant that the only possible cause of that damage is a ring; rather that a ring is one example of ~10,000,000,000,000,000 possibilities*, so you might need to use your imagination to come up with other possible causes / examples that could apply for you specifically.

For instance, another cause might be if you're holding keys in your hand while reversing into a spot and whipping the wheel around ... At least that's how it happened to me.

*note: only an estimate
I thought I had to have scratched my wheel when I noticed similar cracking near the top, but I've now noticed it in three separate places, including two near parts of the wheel that I hardly touch... if I touch them at all. Seems odd, but I'm struggling to imagine how I would have caused that to occur on three separate occasions.

Unless my hands are really that gross
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      11-30-2017, 10:30 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Biorin View Post
I thought I had to have scratched my wheel when I noticed similar cracking near the top, but I've now noticed it in three separate places, including two near parts of the wheel that I hardly touch... if I touch them at all. Seems odd, but I'm struggling to imagine how I would have caused that to occur on three separate occasions.

Unless my hands are really that gross
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.
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      12-01-2017, 12:15 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by aerostar View Post
Finger nails?

Holding something in your hand and wheel turned?

I've seen that exact type of "cracking" but it's from self-inflicted damage.

Not any type of normal wear from what I see in the picture.
I dont have finger nails and its on the section of the wheel facing toward my palm, so that would be a neat trick.

Considering I don't eat or do anything else in my car, no it's not from holding something. Perhaps when it was serviced something could have happened, I don't know and I'm not at all concerned with it.
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      12-01-2017, 12:18 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
I don't think anyone meant that the only possible cause of that damage is a ring; rather that a ring is one example of ~10,000,000,000,000,000 possibilities*, so you might need to use your imagination to come up with other possible causes / examples that could apply for you specifically.

For instance, another cause might be if you're holding keys in your hand while reversing into a spot and whipping the wheel around ... At least that's how it happened to me.

*note: only an estimate
Um yeah nope would never do something like that. Keys are in the cupholder ALL THE TIME. I understand what they meant that rings could be any number of things, or it just may happen to some wheels?
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      12-01-2017, 01:49 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Ian1973 View Post
I dont have finger nails and its on the section of the wheel facing toward my palm, so that would be a neat trick.

Considering I don't eat or do anything else in my car, no it's not from holding something. Perhaps when it was serviced something could have happened, I don't know and I'm not at all concerned with it.
Do you have hairy palms?
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      12-01-2017, 08:54 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Ian1973 View Post
I dont have finger nails and its on the section of the wheel facing toward my palm, so that would be a neat trick.

Considering I don't eat or do anything else in my car, no it's not from holding something. Perhaps when it was serviced something could have happened, I don't know and I'm not at all concerned with it.
Let's set something straight, most people have fingernails even if you cut them. Lol

Unless you're cutting them like a centimeter deep. Ew.
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      12-03-2017, 10:40 PM   #73
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Alright, so here's mine and I gotta point out:

(1.) These seats have never been cleaned or even near an intention to clean them, and certainly not "conditioned". This is 3 years of doing zero, notta, nuthin, zilch. (the dust and pine needles should make that obvious - I've never vacuumed cause vert)

(2.) I slide over and mash the drivers side bolster multiple times / day, usually in jeans

(3.) Cali 'vert so full-on sun exposure hours / day I leave the top down when I run errands, etc

To my eye these seats are mint condition and for leather I'd prefer more aniline color variation and wear / patina - that would make them look like true coachwork. As is they look plasticy with just a hint of patina.

It's why I find it bizarre people have "cracking", "tears", and/or are constantly "conditioning". What a waste of time ... but that's just me

Oh, the car's been rained in a few times too. I mean that's never happened BMWFS.

Driver's side:



Passenger side:


Quote:
Originally Posted by dkhm3 View Post
sure man, no problem.

I took one before sundown. Check out my bolsters- beat this!

Attachment 1729900

Attachment 1729902

Mileage: 29,929

Attachment 1729901
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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.

Last edited by GrussGott; 12-03-2017 at 10:46 PM.
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      12-04-2017, 05:56 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Alright, so here's mine and I gotta point out:

(1.) These seats have never been cleaned or even near an intention to clean them, and certainly not "conditioned". This is 3 years of doing zero, notta, nuthin, zilch. (the dust and pine needles should make that obvious - I've never vacuumed cause vert)

(2.) I slide over and mash the drivers side bolster multiple times / day, usually in jeans

(3.) Cali 'vert so full-on sun exposure hours / day I leave the top down when I run errands, etc

To my eye these seats are mint condition and for leather I'd prefer more aniline color variation and wear / patina - that would make them look like true coachwork. As is they look plasticy with just a hint of patina.

It's why I find it bizarre people have "cracking", "tears", and/or are constantly "conditioning". What a waste of time ... but that's just me

Oh, the car's been rained in a few times too. I mean that's never happened BMWFS.
Pretty damn good man.

You must move like a feather.

You must let me know when your new vert comes stateside. I'll be happy to pay for poke and drinks to take a look at that gorgeous thing.
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      12-04-2017, 02:21 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by dkhm3 View Post
Pretty damn good man.

You must move like a feather.
Well, I'm 6'2", 200lbs of solid muscle (head, the rest is fat), so not that light

Here's my auto leather experience:

(1.) for almost 20 years we've had leather seats in BMWs and Audis, probably 20 cars and they've all worn the same - just like in the pictures above

(2.) I've never touched them with anything other than with warm distilled water, and almost never that. mostly the occasional dusting, and right now I could write "bimmerpost" in the dust ... I just might and take a picture of it ...

(3.) For years (15 of those 20) I had dogs running all over the seats front and back - it's how we brought them places and we always brought them places

(4.) I spilled deck paint on my front seats once and it baked on over the course of 2 years - came off with warm water

GG's UNIFIED LEATHER THEORY

The on-going application of clearer / conditioner abrades the leather's surface slowly contributing to "wear" and ultimately ruining it.

That is, the very act of "maintaining" and "conditioning" auto leather destroys it.

If you just leave it alone, after 3 years, it looks like this:



Passenger side:

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Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.

Last edited by GrussGott; 12-04-2017 at 02:32 PM.
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      12-04-2017, 02:35 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by dkhm3 View Post
I use Meguiar's Leather conditioner and cleaner:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Meguiars-...ioner/23067482

It makes the leather shine and greasy, but that goes away when you sit on it.

I just greased it, but you can see there are no cracks, flaking, no issues whatsoever with my seats other than the loosening of the leather through sitting and holding on WOT as my ass moves back into the seat.

3 years and 30k miles.

Attachment 1728756

Attachment 1728757
That looks awful IMO. Greasy and used. Try Swissvax or Ammo.
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      12-04-2017, 02:37 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Well, I'm 6'2", 200lbs of solid muscle (head, the rest is fat), so not that light

Here's my auto leather experience:

(1.) for almost 20 years we've had leather seats in BMWs and Audis, probably 20 cars and they've all worn the same - just like in the pictures above

(2.) I've never touched them with anything other than with warm distilled water, and almost never that. mostly the occasional dusting, and right now I could write "bimmerpost" in the dust ... I just might and take a picture of it ...

(3.) For years (15 of those 20) I had dogs running all over the seats front and back - it's how we brought them places and we always brought them places

(4.) I spilled deck paint on my front seats once and it baked on over the course of 2 years - came off with warm water

GG's UNIFIED LEATHER THEORY

The on-going application of clearer / conditioner abrades the leather's surface slowly contributing to "wear" and ultimately ruining it.

That is, the very act of "maintaining" and "conditioning" auto leather destroys it.

If you just leave it alone, after 3 years, it looks like this:



Passenger side:



You do bring up a good point. Treated leathers typically have a coating on them to protect what is underneath. However, lightly cleaning the COATING will continue to keep it looking new. Heavy cleaners do wear down the coating and ultimately help make the leather crack.

There are leather sealants out there that one can use after intensively cleaning the leather, like Gyeon
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      12-04-2017, 03:36 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naz24 View Post
You do bring up a good point. Treated leathers typically have a coating on them to protect what is underneath. However, lightly cleaning the COATING will continue to keep it looking new. Heavy cleaners do wear down the coating and ultimately help make the leather crack.

There are leather sealants out there that one can use after intensively cleaning the leather, like Gyeon
Yeah, if someone REALLY REALLY knows what they're doing ...
i.e. air pressure dust, light feather dust, microfiber dust, warm distilled water light cleaning, application of polyurethane coating, curing, and repeat
But most people are just squiring goop on a rag, creating a rubbing compound, and then sanding down their seat's leather surface-coating. If I wanted nice leather seats on a used car I'd insist on buying from someone who did nothing to their seats. If you "conditioned" your seats, there's a 99% chance you've ruined them.

(and maybe the top point is: even if you're doing everything right it's completely unnecessary and a total waste of time!)

Show me someone who leather conditions their seats and I'll show you ruined seats.

It's like that guy at the car wash, washing his new car with that foaming brush ...
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.

Last edited by GrussGott; 12-04-2017 at 03:44 PM.
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      12-04-2017, 03:50 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post

Show me someone who leather conditions their seats and I'll show you ruined seats.
Ruined seats are my nappa leather driver seats in the '99 E36 M3, that I didn't clean and condition. Bolsters were cracked, dry and damaged.

I plan on keeping this M3 for 6 years, 2x as long as the E36.

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      12-04-2017, 03:58 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Naz24 View Post
That looks awful IMO. Greasy and used. Try Swissvax or Ammo.
Thanks for the tip, I'm always willing to try another product to keep my leather from sun damage, cracking, etc.
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      12-04-2017, 04:35 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naz24 View Post
You do bring up a good point. Treated leathers typically have a coating on them to protect what is underneath. However, lightly cleaning the COATING will continue to keep it looking new. Heavy cleaners do wear down the coating and ultimately help make the leather crack.

There are leather sealants out there that one can use after intensively cleaning the leather, like Gyeon
Yeah, if someone REALLY REALLY knows what they're doing ...
i.e. air pressure dust, light feather dust, microfiber dust, warm distilled water light cleaning, application of polyurethane coating, curing, and repeat
But most people are just squiring goop on a rag, creating a rubbing compound, and then sanding down their seat's leather surface-coating. If I wanted nice leather seats on a used car I'd insist on buying from someone who did nothing to their seats. If you "conditioned" your seats, there's a 99% chance you've ruined them.

(and maybe the top point is: even if you're doing everything right it's completely unnecessary and a total waste of time!)

Show me someone who leather conditions their seats and I'll show you ruined seats.

It's like that guy at the car wash, washing his new car with that foaming brush ...
But just putting leather conditioner on will not ruin the seats. It's the "rubbing" that removes the coating
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      12-04-2017, 04:56 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naz24 View Post
That looks awful IMO. Greasy and used. Try Swissvax or Ammo.
Thanks for the tip, I'm always willing to try another product to keep my leather from sun damage, cracking, etc.
You're welcome. For the steering wheel, i like a matte finish, so try using a soft scrub brush with the cleaning agent. Then let the leather conditioner soak in
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      12-04-2017, 04:59 PM   #83
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But just putting leather conditioner on will not ruin the seats. It's the "rubbing" that removes the coating
Exactly, just like washing your car: It's not the detergent that creates spider webbing, it's the improper technique that grinds dirt and grit over the surface, thus abrading and damaging the clear-coat.

You cannot "moisturize" auto leather as it doesn't need replacement of fats or liquors and has a polyurethane coating, so it doesn't need "conditioning".

What happened to dkhm3's older car is that, over time, the surface coating breaks down due to sun exposure, heat/cold cycles, abrasion due to use, etc, thus exposing the leather underneath, which then dries and cracks.

To prevent that on a new car, after about 4-5 years (during which time you should NOT DO ANYTHING), you should have the leather professionally cleaned (ie., proper technique) and have the polyurethane coating replaced as you recommended.

If you do that every 4-5 years depending on sun / temp exposure, the leather will stay like new.

Repeatedly "conditioning" will 99% likely destroy the leather's surface coating and ultimate the paint color underneath. The repeated rubbing also separates the leather's fibers contributing to sagging, stretching, and wear, not to mention risks getting moisture into the stitching holes which rots the leather from the inside out.
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I thought the next M4 was going to be a flying car powered by bloomin' onions and a teaspoon of mayonnaise. At least that's what I read on the internet @ BimmerPoop.org.

Last edited by GrussGott; 12-04-2017 at 05:12 PM.
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      12-04-2017, 09:34 PM   #84
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You're welcome. For the steering wheel, i like a matte finish, so try using a soft scrub brush with the cleaning agent. Then let the leather conditioner soak in
This is the only ammo kit i see:

https://www.ammonyc.com/shop/ammo-interiorregimen-kit/

I also have used products from these guys- any thoughts?

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      12-04-2017, 10:58 PM   #85
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I also have used products from these guys- any thoughts?
Yes, I have thoughts : take leather care advice from people who make and sell leather, not makers and sellers of leather care products.

A bit of a conflict of interest there.
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      12-05-2017, 11:38 AM   #86
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I'm not reading this whole thread... but I can tell you that you can get scratch like that when you are getting out of your car from your belt/jeans/jacket zipper rubbing against the bottom of the wheel.
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      12-05-2017, 03:43 PM   #87
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I'm not reading this whole thread... but I can tell you that you can get scratch like that when you are getting out of your car from your belt/jeans/jacket zipper rubbing against the bottom of the wheel.
gawd dammit you're the best!
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      12-05-2017, 05:25 PM   #88
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gawd dammit you're the best!
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