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      05-20-2011, 03:02 PM   #155
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South, great post! It is wonderful to hear that more than one or two possibilities are being explored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO View Post
A bi-turbo S65 variant will be marvelous!

1. A progressive iteration of one of the best engines ever.

2. Imagine the fun aftermarket tuners can have with this engine!

-SZ
I like the bi-turbo S65 best of the quartet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Here's my take (whether you want it or not)



Believability: 10%

Why? We already have two turbo V8s - the S63 and N63 - so I don't how it will make a good business case to build yet another one.



Believability: 70%

Why? An "S55" would follow on logically just like the N63->S63 evolution. And I personally think 160hp/L will be very feasibly for M division. Granted, there is still a discrepancy as far as the N55 vs. the N54 forming the basis. When it comes down to it, the primary difference is turbo setup and Valvetronic. But those two will be weighed independently by M either way.



Believeability factor: 25%

Why? While this would make a lot more sense than the turbo'd S65 would, I still don't think BMW will go through with it. They need to play up the greener image that people have of engines with lower cylinder count. Make no mistake, they are going to do all they can to tie the Efficient Dynamics story into the M3 as tightly as possible.



Believability factor: < 1%

Why? I just don't think it makes any sense. As I see it, fitment issues with the V8 as far as an X3 M or Z4 M are due to the turbos, intercoolers, plumbing etc, most likely. If you are going to have to move them no matter what the cylinder count, then you could just as easily relocate them for the V8, and not spend all the money developing a V6 block, crank, cams, heads, not to mention testing all that. And for less displacement, no need to lose cylinders - just destroke/debore the V8.
No disagreement with your takes, but which of the four has the greatest potential for outputting the highest bhp per pound of motor? Any idea; anyone?
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      05-20-2011, 03:16 PM   #156
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V6 3.3 bi-turbo
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      05-20-2011, 03:37 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Terrific! Thanks for asking, Harry.

Oh, and as an aside: <hagrid voice>You're a wizard, Harry!</hagrid voice>



LOL, come now, Harry, this is not true at all. I'll tell you what, if you can show me any official (or even non-official) information from a BMW source or employee that confirms this, well, then I'll change my screen name to Hermione Granger. Sounds good, yes?
Unless you provide the same evidence you suggest above with your theories, his opinion is as worthless as yours.
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      05-20-2011, 04:34 PM   #158
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s65 Bi turbo Holly molly I might buy a new car!
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      05-20-2011, 04:36 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auggiem3 View Post
agreed. one big complaint about the 1er M coupe is the lack of a completely new M engineered power plant.

I understand the cost enhancements achieved by modifying existing motors, but come on - the premium for the M badge should cover something unique!
Actually the E9x M3 is the first time the M variant has had a completely different engine from its predecessors. Previous generations always started with the base 3's engine and just improved key areas of it.
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      05-20-2011, 04:37 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TailHappyM3 View Post
Unless you provide the same evidence you suggest above with your theories, his opinion is as worthless as yours.
The evidence is that BMW has not officially announced a thing about what engine will be used. This the the first we are hearing of them even testing an engine for the next gen M3. What more evidence do you want?
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You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...
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      05-20-2011, 04:52 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TailHappyM3 View Post
Unless you provide the same evidence you suggest above with your theories, his opinion is as worthless as yours.
What? Dude, he just stated as fact that BMW confirmed it would be an I6. Show me where anything I've said in this thread was pushed off as fact.

Geebus, every day in this place there's a guy finding new ways to create drama.
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      05-20-2011, 04:59 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
What? Dude, he just stated as fact that BMW confirmed it would be an I6. Show me where anything I've said in this thread was pushed off as fact.

Geebus, every day in this place there's a guy finding new ways to create drama.
Not drama, just people who don't know what they are talking about. With the age of the M3, you can expect it to it start getting picked up by 16/17/18 year olds with wealthy parents. I hate to use the ignore feature because I would like to help everyone out but a select few really get on my nerves because of their ignorance. That's when you go in ignore.
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Quote:
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You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...
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      05-20-2011, 05:46 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
What? Dude, he just stated as fact that BMW confirmed it would be an I6. Show me where anything I've said in this thread was pushed off as fact.

Geebus, every day in this place there's a guy finding new ways to create drama.
I didn't take it as a fact and it was nothing more than just another opinion. People are not that stupid about what's speculation and what's factual about the next M3 engine these early days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
Not drama, just people who don't know what they are talking about. With the age of the M3, you can expect it to it start getting picked up by 16/17/18 year olds with wealthy parents. I hate to use the ignore feature because I would like to help everyone out but a select few really get on my nerves because of their ignorance. That's when you go in ignore.
What the heck are you on about? The evidence I was asking for is the same one the mkoesel was asking of that other poster.....there is none! The point being these are just opinions and everyone is entitled to one. I've been following these forums for a few years and there are some folks around here who think their opinions are worth more than others.
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      05-20-2011, 06:38 PM   #164
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Ehh

Please don't forget that i6 is the best balanced engine for performance on track....
Really BMW your loosing your motive .. The new v8 m3 is like a shitty Mercedes , just a big engine being thrown around unfashionably . Please go back to high revving i6, and add two turbos naturally aspirated And there ya go.. And stop making the m's bigger!!!!!! Your loosing your real ambitious drivers...
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      05-20-2011, 06:41 PM   #165
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Goodbye m3

bummer..
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      05-20-2011, 07:30 PM   #166
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If they all have amount of power, do any of these engines offer any advantage over the others, or is it all just preference?
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      05-20-2011, 08:06 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TailHappyM3 View Post
I didn't take it as a fact and it was nothing more than just another opinion. People are not that stupid about what's speculation and what's factual about the next M3 engine these early days.



What the heck are you on about? The evidence I was asking for is the same one the mkoesel was asking of that other poster.....there is none! The point being these are just opinions and everyone is entitled to one. I've been following these forums for a few years and there are some folks around here who think their opinions are worth more than others.
That's where you're wrong. There is evidence. The evidence is that BMW hasn't stated anything.
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You sound like my buddies who have AMG's - Slam the gas, slam the brakes...
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      05-20-2011, 08:09 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
That's where you're wrong. There is evidence. The evidence is that BMW hasn't stated anything.
Errr, that is exactly my point when I said "there is none". LOL

It's just all opinions and guesses at this time.
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      05-20-2011, 10:05 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
I personally think that article is pure BS. At this point, they're already testing that engine somewhere. Or close to.
Sorry to South and others, but I have to agree here with this^. There is simply no way BMW is this indecisive at this point. The engine has got to be decided pretty early on in development. Where does this leave us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
With a TT V8 M5, there WILL NOT be a TT V8 M3.
Yes, exactly right on the money. % chance = 0, precisely. It is really due to pride/envy considerations. You can't charge so much more for the M5 with such a similar engine available in the M5s little brother.

The only reasonable options (from BMWs perspective) are V6 or I6, with turbo(s). Certainly very different options. They will undoubtedly show some significant innovation in the turbo domain either way. The choice comes down to a couple basic issues.

1. BMW is being driven very strongly by a push to use common parts to save money. You can read all about this about this in their reports to investors. The terms are "standardized architectures", "modular combinations" and "material cost offensive". If this is the dominant factor in the decision it will get an N55 variant. Personally I am leaning in this direction, not as a preference but as a guess.

2. The M3 is an icon, is typically fairly innovative (and award winning) with its engine. The compactness of the V6 as well as the innovation that could be in such an engine are attractive. Similarly reusing parts of existing V8s has the potential to save on development and production costs. However basing a new V6 on an existing V8 is not exactly as simple as the way the S65 V8 was based on the M5 S85 V10 due to balancing issues. Also, since the base 3er will have plenty of room for an inline 6 space is not going to be a major concern or limitation in the chassis. The M3 also typically gets its own specific or highly customized version of a base engine.

I'm not so sure why folks are so anti-V6. Sure they need some balancing shaft(s) that rob some power and add some complexity but there is nothing whatsoever inherently wrong with a great V6. It certainly would be a somewhat radical departure for BMW but heck turbos for M cars and SUVs are no less radical.

Don't really buy the articles basic premise but appreciate the discussion it has spurred.
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      05-21-2011, 12:05 AM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
However basing a new V6 on an existing V8 is not exactly as simple as the way the S65 V8 was based on the M5 S85 V10 due to balancing issues.
And don't you think BMW took that into consideration when developing the S63 ? And you're right about a 'different' kind of V6 if that's the case. For one, it'd be a 90, which is rare, to make it cost effective (derived from the S63). And as far as 'balancing', I'm not sure on a 90 V6 if it's possible with crank counterweights alone (which is the case with 60 V6s). It might, but it'd depend on displacement and rev limit. It'll be interesting to see what BMW comes up with, but my money is on an I6. We'll know soon enough. It's very likely the new engine is already in testing with current M3s, so nobody would notice. Have a good one.
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      05-21-2011, 12:53 AM   #171
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I love how m3 owners continue to bash the 1m stop being jealous **** and accept bmws new direction if you want to part ways with one of the best motorsporting comapnies be our guess more for us but the new m3 engine will be turbod like a 1m ive had a 135i for 3 years and for a little pocket rocket the car was fun unless an m3 put 8k into there car they couldnt keep up on the road m3 is a true rac car just like the 1m will be with the .97 skidpad and all that torque. If you didnt realize for amaybe 500 $.a 1m owner can have a 400 hp 400 torque machine with the sMe suspension as an m3 talk about an m car but anything thats gunna put down numbers like that with an engine like that ill take over an m3 everyday praise ur v8 bc its gunna die with u id rather save my money and havw a bettwr m car
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      05-21-2011, 12:55 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
And don't you think BMW took that into consideration when developing the S63 ? And you're right about a 'different' kind of V6 if that's the case. For one, it'd be a 90, which is rare, to make it cost effective (derived from the S63). And as far as 'balancing', I'm not sure on a 90 V6 if it's possible with crank counterweights alone (which is the case with 60 V6s). It might, but it'd depend on displacement and rev limit. It'll be interesting to see what BMW comes up with, but my money is on an I6. We'll know soon enough. It's very likely the new engine is already in testing with current M3s, so nobody would notice. Have a good one.
Yes indeed they may have cleverly thought out the "trimming" operation and what balancing requirements might be required for a V6 derived from this V8. Although you can get by with no balancing on a 60 V6 you can't really on a 90 V6 (at least in a road car). And of course by "balancing" I mean dedicated balancing, not that on the crankshaft itself which every car has. Also a 60 V6 would require either massive modifications or an entirely different production line compared to the one making a 90 V8. Thus I highly doubt a 60 V6.
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      05-21-2011, 01:08 AM   #173
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I'd take a heavily modifited N54/N55 engine over V6
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      05-21-2011, 02:25 AM   #174
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s65 biturbo sounds alright to me
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      05-21-2011, 07:20 AM   #175
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Probably bmw will put a 3.3 v6 twin-turbo, or somewhere between 1M I6 3.0 twin-turbo and M5 V8 4.4 twin-turbo, definitely will be a twin-turbo
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      05-21-2011, 02:26 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Terrific! Thanks for asking, Harry.

Oh, and as an aside: <hagrid voice>You're a wizard, Harry!</hagrid voice>



LOL, come now, Harry, this is not true at all. I'll tell you what, if you can show me any official (or even non-official) information from a BMW source or employee that confirms this, well, then I'll change my screen name to Hermione Granger. Sounds good, yes?
Now you have confused me.



Rumormill: Is BMW bound to bolt a V6 under the hood of the next M3?

by Jeff Glucker (RSS feed) on May 20th 2011 at 1:01PM


BMW M3 Competition Package Click above for high-res image gallery

If you're an unapologetic BMW fanboy, the next few words might sting. BMW may be considering a V6 for the next generation BMW M3. No, we didn't mean to type I6 we're talking about three on one side and three on the other.

According to M3post.com, BMW is likely to go in one of four directions. First up is the suggestion that BMW will take the M3's current S65 V8 and add a pair of turbochargers to it. Now, we're all in favor of adding forced-induction to this engine but this would have the M3 treading heavily on F10 M5 ground.

Another rumor pegs BMW as stuffing either a modified (read: boosted) version of the N54 turbocharged inline-six or a tweaked (read: detuned) version of the F10 M5's twin-turbo V8 S63 motor. The most interesting rumor, however, is that BMW may look into a turbocharged V6 engine. Is BMW HQ ready to hurt the fanboy feelings of folks in love with straight-six engines? If it means a better M3, then anything is possible.


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