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      08-12-2011, 04:40 AM   #133
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call me blind, but where are you guys seeing the tri-turbo engine in the pics?
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      08-12-2011, 06:27 AM   #134
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It can also cause the hpfp issue.
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      08-12-2011, 07:18 AM   #135
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For the new M3 we are looking at fuel savings of about 20-30%.

Do not understimate the prowness of BMW engineers.
Every option for each car begins in a brainstorming session where ideas are put down on paper. So yes BMW have developed a prototype V6 but when evaluated we found it did not suit the intentions of the car.

There are lots of other engines that you do not know about by our engine development unit. right from a two cylinder upwards to a 9.0 64-valve V16 which was designed for Rolls-Royce and will never see the light of day in any production car.

What you have to be careful of is that unorthodox choices for BMW such as FWD and V6's are being evaluated because one day we could run out of options with increasing legislation. So we have to adapt these choices to BMW thinking without compromising on what makes a BMW great.
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      08-12-2011, 07:35 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhrir View Post
Please people! There is no such thing as an "electric" turbocharger. Turbochargers by definition are driven by a turbine which in most applications is powered by exhaust gases. So as has been noted already the engine will have 2 turbochargers and an electric supercharger. Technically a turbocharger is a type of supercharger so to say it is triple supercharged is accurate. A tri-turbo? No way.


Turbo is to Supercharger as Square is to Rectangle

Turbo is a type of supercharger.
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      08-12-2011, 07:38 AM   #137
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Nice update Scott.

Inline 6 is good news and 20-30% fuel savings is very nice too.

Speaking of v16 Rolls:
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...him-video.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
For the new M3 we are looking at fuel savings of about 20-30%.

Do not understimate the prowness of BMW engineers.
Every option for each car begins in a brainstorming session where ideas are put down on paper. So yes BMW have developed a prototype V6 but when evaluated we found it did not suit the intentions of the car.

There are lots of other engines that you do not know about by our engine development unit. right from a two cylinder upwards to a 9.0 64-valve V16 which was designed for Rolls-Royce and will never see the light of day in any production car.

What you have to be careful of is that unorthodox choices for BMW such as FWD and V6's are being evaluated because one day we could run out of options with increasing legislation. So we have to adapt these choices to BMW thinking without compromising on what makes a BMW great.
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      08-12-2011, 07:40 AM   #138
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You need your 3d glasses, sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonardo629 View Post
call me blind, but where are you guys seeing the tri-turbo engine in the pics?
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      08-12-2011, 07:42 AM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
For the new M3 we are looking at fuel savings of about 20-30%.

Do not understimate the prowness of BMW engineers.
Every option for each car begins in a brainstorming session where ideas are put down on paper. So yes BMW have developed a prototype V6 but when evaluated we found it did not suit the intentions of the car.

There are lots of other engines that you do not know about by our engine development unit. right from a two cylinder upwards to a 9.0 64-valve V16 which was designed for Rolls-Royce and will never see the light of day in any production car.

What you have to be careful of is that unorthodox choices for BMW such as FWD and V6's are being evaluated because one day we could run out of options with increasing legislation. So we have to adapt these choices to BMW thinking without compromising on what makes a BMW great.
Well said Scott

Just keep the performance dynamics sharper and sharper with each generation. Also, keep the cars looking good (i.e.: not like that last 1 )... like the current 1 coupe, 1M and definitely like the new 5, 7, X5, X6, Mini ...
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      08-12-2011, 07:57 AM   #140
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wow!!! things just got a lot more exciting!!!
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      08-12-2011, 08:18 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonCSU View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by stingray23 View Post
Whats the point, there's no V8. They can keep their 6 cylinder.
You realize that the E30 M3 had an inline 4, and both the E36 and E46 M3's had inline sixes right?
Agreed. People are so stupid, and bitch way too much..
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      08-12-2011, 08:37 AM   #142
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Looks wise coupe has the sedan beat by a wide margin. None the less I also hope they make a sedan version for all the folks that want one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmander View Post
cant see much of yet but still HELL YEAH. I really hope they keep making m3 sedans, i personally prefer how the e90 m3 looks vs. the e92 m3.
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Last edited by Kayani_1; 08-13-2011 at 04:09 PM.
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      08-12-2011, 08:50 AM   #143
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If you take an closer look at these pics ... you could easily see, that this car never, never was an simple F30 M-Testmule for the F32 ... its really an real F30 M3 Prototype(!) ... it make no sence to develop this production wide rear F30 m-style-fenders for an F32!

And since the F32 would get an total different shaped body/frontend its the same with the wide front F30 fenders!

Greets Uli_HH
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      08-12-2011, 09:56 AM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Staszek View Post
Remember the M3 is not a full on sports car, its also a DD for many people as well as it seats 4 with a large trunk.
Yes, but if the a DD with power is what you want please buy a 335i sedan. I owned a e92 335i, was a great car......but its frustrating people confusing the focus of an ///M car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukester View Post
had a Nissan GT-R, had a blown '09 Challenger SRT8 6speed manual and now I'm driving the M3 6speed manual. All cars had been very track optimized with nearly slicks, big brakes, Pole Position seats, KW suspension, ....

But if the new one is gonna be a bi or tri turbo I'm gonna buy a fairly used Porsche GT3 RS.
No bullshit equipment nobody needs - natural aspirated - 6 speed manual - awesome seats - awesome brakes - real lightweight

Guys...we don't need stuff like "12 zone climate control", leather on the dashboard, "486 speakers sound system", parking sensors, rain sensors, start/stop automatic, Internet, TV, .... and all that stuff which adds weight and doesn't have nothing to do with a real driving machine! ... absolutely nothing!

All of these features are really nice to have and perfect for a 320d daily driver. But where's the real M-Car?
Why are we loosing the high-rev engine? The best of the breed of engine technology?
Why are you adding more and more weight with each generation?

A good friend of mine has a 1M Coupe with all mods done. That thing has over 390HP and massive torque. But even though. Pedal response is "slow" and driving a turbo will never give you that feeling what a NA engines gives you. The direct and lightspeed connection between your brain, foot and the butterfly valves.
Compared to a optimized M3 it's really a shame that the 1M Coupe has a M badge.

Another good friend of mine had the new Z4 with the 3.0 biturbo for 2 days from the dealer. He's a carnut like me and no ... he didn't buy it but bought a fairly used driving machine. The "old" Z4 M coupe.
Whatta difference. The new one is a fat comfortable crusing machine. But in terms of performance and feedback from the car and the street it feels like a schoolbus. Really. I'm absolutely disappointed of the "M brand".
Every new car they throw onto the market is getting more and more extras and weight and looses feedback as well as beeing a driving machine.

That's why I sold my GT-R and bought the M3. The Challenger is still here because it's not comparable and I just love that thing - but it's not a track tool.

And to be honest. After driving a track ready M3 e46 I know I should have bought that instead of an e92 M3.
Perfect summary. Can't put it any better than that......and for the guy who sai ///M cars are about efficiency, sounds like someone has been drinking the BMW ///Marketing Koolaide and really doesn't know the history of ///M cars and the tenants that USED to drive that division.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post

Any M3 will continue with the same philosophy. It is not about Power and outright speed. It is about advancing the game in technology , lightness and remaining the best driving car in it's segment. It will continue to do what the E92 has done since 2007. Take on allcomers including new more powerful models such as the C63 AMG Coupe and Audi RS5 and still outdrive them.
SCOTT, I think you are leaving out a HUGE point here. ///M have always been a about a car with a soul as well. Do you not think or realize the loss of that "soul" that may occur when you abandon N/A engines? Listen, the N54/N55 tuned all day long does not feel like the S54, S65, S85 engines.......they just don't feel the same. Power is not everything, DELIVERY of that power is everything. How you MAKE that power is everything. Sorry, but if you took the current ///M3 and just switched out the S65 for a tuned N54/55 it would not feel like an ///M or as special as the car does now.

Don't underestimate the power of the soul.......because once its gone......IT IS GONE FOREVER.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Folks, this is just an early prototype. These aren't the production mirrors. You can expect sportier mirrors for the next gen M3 compared to the regular F30/F32.

Nobody seems to have much of an issue with the F10 M5 mirrors.


Attachment 565070
Great point Jason. I think anyone making comments on this mule from a visual aspect really is MISSING the boat. We all know mules are just basic exterior cladding meant to be used to test the guts of the car, not the looks.

Though could we please get BMW NOT to use the ///M vents in the F30/32 ///M3, cause they are hideous!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Who still believes a V6 is coming?
No, and just like I do with Monday mornings, I will continue to pretend it can't happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanh View Post
M cars are not about efficiency. Maybe I'm wrong, but trying to have high revving engines (hence relatively low torque) forces to have aggressive gearing which results poor economy. Great pleasure, sounds amazing, but not efficient...
+1......I don't think ///M division ever made efficiency a tenant of ///M development, or at least not that they ever advertised it. This "efficient dynamics" is the new hammer of the "ne and improved" marketing division for BMW Group.

Cheers,
e46e92
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      08-12-2011, 10:24 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
It's amazing how many of you keep commenting on the looks of the car. Are you really that clueless?
+1

No kidding!


Imagine if the mule didn't have quad exhausts! That would spin an entirely new thread.
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      08-12-2011, 10:46 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
it won't be a N54 or 55, it will be a new 3.2L engine...
I thought it would be based on the N54-55?
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      08-12-2011, 10:47 AM   #147
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Can't wait to drive one...
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      08-12-2011, 10:49 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
They watched what Audi did with the A5 and they are copying

Upscale=we can charge more because the number is higher
It reminds me of when AMD was advertising their CPUs as 3200mhz + when in reality the CPU was running at like 2.66ghz
BTW - AMD never did that, they advertised processors as follows:

AMD 3200+ (2.66Ghz) The 3200+ was used so you could compare AMD to Intel processors. Similar performing processors ran at different speeds.

ie. AMD 3200+ (2.66Ghz) is equal to a 3.2Ghz intel

AMD is finally getting away from that naming schema.
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      08-12-2011, 11:05 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
BTW - AMD never did that, they advertised processors as follows:

AMD 3200+ (2.66Ghz) The 3200+ was used so you could compare AMD to Intel processors. Similar performing processors ran at different speeds.

ie. AMD 3200+ (2.66Ghz) is equal to a 3.2Ghz intel

AMD is finally getting away from that naming schema.
well the 3200 number was a number they pulled out of their A$$
most cpu benchmarks showed they did have an advantage, but not that big
so the 2.66 was closer to a 2.8 intel cpu

and they did try to emphasize the 3200
if you looked at any of the boxes for the CPUs
the 3200 was written in big bold letters
here's an example, it doesn't say the real clock speed anywhere on the front of the box. so to most consumers they will compare the 2.8ghz on the intel box and see this as 3.2 and they'll buy AMD


don't get me wrong
i love AMD, but i still think that was a little misleading marketing
much like the new 4 series
humans have been trained to prefer higher numbers
ever seen a boombox lately?
1000Watts PMPO !!!
when in reality it's like 25w rms
so yes i'm predicting the 4 series will cost a lot more than the 3 series
bigger difference than between e90-e92

and that's what pisses me off
BMW is maximizing profits, increasing sales, but yet they are too cheap to let the M engineers make a custom engine for the next M3
they said here are the existing engines, mess around with them and make a pretend M engine.
case in point the 1M
if the next M3 has that stupid "Powered by M" sticker on the engine, like the 1M, i'm not buying it
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      08-12-2011, 11:38 AM   #150
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Exclamation I predict that

1) most folks will buy the new M3, becuse they just want to be seen in the latest and greatest.
2) I'm getting a P-car next...
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      08-12-2011, 11:52 AM   #151
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      08-12-2011, 12:18 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
They watched what Audi did with the A5 and they are copying

Upscale=we can charge more because the number is higher
It reminds me of when AMD was advertising their CPUs as 3200mhz + when in reality the CPU was running at like 2.66ghz
+1

The reason the A5 works is because they used the A5 name from the start. The 3/M3 name has a lot of history behind it and I really don't want to see the 4 series name. Even if they still keep the M3 name but use the 4 series name for non-M models it will still be a dumb idea.

Lol @ AMD comment. I had that processor!
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      08-12-2011, 12:33 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
For the new M3 we are looking at fuel savings of about 20-30%.

Do not understimate the prowness of BMW engineers.
Every option for each car begins in a brainstorming session where ideas are put down on paper. So yes BMW have developed a prototype V6 but when evaluated we found it did not suit the intentions of the car.

There are lots of other engines that you do not know about by our engine development unit. right from a two cylinder upwards to a 9.0 64-valve V16 which was designed for Rolls-Royce and will never see the light of day in any production car.

What you have to be careful of is that unorthodox choices for BMW such as FWD and V6's are being evaluated because one day we could run out of options with increasing legislation. So we have to adapt these choices to BMW thinking without compromising on what makes a BMW great.
20-30% that is pretty vague, but I guess until the car is tested more they won't really know for sure. I bet the 20% is more for city and 30% on highway which seems right for a i6 3.2L, 17/25 is my final guess at mileage when this beast is released which would be GREAT, no gas guzzler tax!

perfect car for me (which won't happen anytime soon) would be minimum 20 mpg combined, 0-60 in 4.0 seconds, 4 doors (kids), and AWD (my daily driver in Chicago, I know snow tires work fine and I use them now, but with that much power and how bad our winters can get, AWD still helps). Maybe the M4 Gran Coupe in 2016 will have an AWD version
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      08-12-2011, 01:33 PM   #154
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Well I guess that was my first and last Euro Delivery of an M3...
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