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      01-26-2012, 08:34 PM   #1
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F8X engine pretty much established?

With today's announcement of the new tri-turbo INLINE 6 engine, I think it's safe to assume the F8X engine will migrate to a tri-turbo inline 6 petrol engine as well. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

Though, I'm still irked if they call it an M4, but I'm willing to accept that so long as the engine for the most part stays true to BMW's heritage.
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      01-27-2012, 02:25 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelloss View Post
With today's announcement of the new try-turbo INLINE 6 engine, I think it's safe to assume the F8X engine will migrate to a tri-turbo inline 6 petrol engine as well. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

Though, I'm still irked if they call it an M4, but I'm willing to accept that so long as the engine for the most part stays true to BMW's heritage.
So I bet on the following configuration in F80:
-3.3 Liter inline six-cylinder
-450 hp
-640 Nm
-two Twinsrcoll-turbos, one for three cylinder ... so a total of four turbos

This is an empty weight of 1,400 kg and so impressive performance ...
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      01-27-2012, 02:31 AM   #3
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Talking

I totally agree with you unless Scott says otherwise. I love the sound of a rumping V8 but we all know BMW make the best engines in the world and what ever goes in the beast it will perform .
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      01-27-2012, 02:34 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelloss View Post
With today's announcement of the new try-turbo INLINE 6 engine, I think it's safe to assume the F8X engine will migrate to a tri-turbo inline 6 petrol engine as well. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

Though, I'm still irked if they call it an M4, but I'm willing to accept that so long as the engine for the most part stays true to BMW's heritage.
NO ... I think an TriTurbo engine for the new F8x M3/M4 is very unlikely ... the TriTurbo-concept is for the M Performence petrol M.50d models only. Posts in the net of an TriTurbo-System with an third elektric driven Turbo are an misunderstanding of the BMW patented "eTurbo-System", were conventional turbos were driven by an E-Motor by low rpm to avoid lag.

According to my infos the new F8x gets an N55 based "S55" with probably 2 turbos (or 4!?) ... depends on how you define the TwinScroll-Turbosystem.
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      01-27-2012, 02:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kueks29 View Post
So I bet on the following configuration in F80:
-3.3 Liter inline six-cylinder
-450 hp
-640 Nm
-two Twinsrcoll-turbos, one for three cylinder ... so a total of four turbos

This is an empty weight of 1,400 kg and so impressive performance ...
450 hp seems a little bit low for such an engine arangement. I think in this case 470-480 hp would be more likely.

But you know, for me it doesnt matter how much an 1.400kg M3 would get ... 420 to 440hp would be okay, if they put an proper engine with real M-Spirit in.
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      01-27-2012, 02:51 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Harold Wood View Post
I totally agree with you unless Scott says otherwise. I love the sound of a rumping V8 but we all know BMW make the best engines in the world and what ever goes in the beast it will perform .
Harold I love your renderings ... and fully agree with your statement according to the V8 (special the S65, not so AMG V8s) ... but I must disagree with the second part of your post ... we have to wait and see if the BMW AG is in the future willing to allow the M-GmbH to make "the best engines of the world" because currently it seems like Profit and Ebit is more important for the AG than its old tradition in magnificent engines ... especially in the case of BMW M
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      01-27-2012, 03:30 AM   #7
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established? nonsense there will be no tri turbo
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      01-27-2012, 09:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Wood View Post
we all know BMW make the best engines in the world
Oh man, FAN-BOY ALERT !!!
They make great engines, well-suited for the target audience of their cars.

The best engines in the world, hmm, those you can find in NASA rockets and the likes...
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      01-27-2012, 09:19 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Xelloss View Post
With today's announcement of the new tri-turbo INLINE 6 engine
Source ?
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      01-27-2012, 09:21 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kueks29 View Post
So I bet on the following configuration in F80:
-two Twinsrcoll-turbos, one for three cylinder ... so a total of four turbos
A twin-scroll is a single turbo. (N55) Two twin-scroll turbos will give you 2 turbos, not 4.

A twin-turbo is a dual turbo. (N54)

What's in a name ? Even BMW mixed them up in their marketing / specs.
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      01-27-2012, 01:58 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
Source ?
http://www.bimmerfile.com/2012/01/25...es/#more-18253

Keep up with the news.
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      01-27-2012, 02:00 PM   #12
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While these are diesel, I am almost sure the M3 will use a petrol engine given the hurdles of bringing a volume diesel to the states.
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      01-28-2012, 01:26 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Xelloss View Post
Those are diesels.... You just can't compare diesel turbo and petrol turbo egines.
Keep up with the tech.

Last edited by hwelvaar; 01-28-2012 at 01:54 PM.
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      01-29-2012, 04:02 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
NO ... I think an TriTurbo engine for the new F8x M3/M4 is very unlikely ... the TriTurbo-concept is for the M Performence petrol M.50d models only. Posts in the net of an TriTurbo-System with an third elektric driven Turbo are an misunderstanding of the BMW patented "eTurbo-System", were conventional turbos were driven by an E-Motor by low rpm to avoid lag.

According to my infos the new F8x gets an N55 based "S55" with probably 2 turbos (or 4!?) ... depends on how you define the TwinScroll-Turbosystem.
Recently a reliable source told me that it would be inline 6, V6 was shot down by the board and would use three turbos for the F80.

Now I will openly say that this could in fact mean a small E-charger and a dual scroll turbo effectively making 2 housings with 3 scrolls. My German is so so on these things and the source's English tends to be a bit "off" when it comes to these things.... I also recall being briefed on the X6 ///M when it came out and the engineer I was talking with told me it had 4 turbos- it has four scrolls with 2 dual scroll turbos.

One thing is for sure is that it seems like it will be N55 based now. The source also said 450 HP is the target as BMW is not hell bent on HP and wants efficiency and performance, the M5 could have been over 600hp if they wanted too as an example. 450-460hp would also keep the 100ish hp gap between the M5/M6 for marketing purposes as well as keep reliability up. The F80 has a much better chassis and it is lighter than the former E90 so it will need less HP to go faster.

-M
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      01-29-2012, 10:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
One thing is for sure is that it seems like it will be N55 based now. The source also said 450 HP is the target as BMW is not hell bent on HP and wants efficiency and performance, the M5 could have been over 600hp if they wanted too as an example. 450-460hp would also keep the 100ish hp gap between the M5/M6 for marketing purposes as well as keep reliability up. The F80 has a much better chassis and it is lighter than the former E90 so it will need less HP to go faster.-M
I've had the very first of each of the last M3s in Oregon. I have faith that this will eclipse the current E92, though we may miss the V8 sound. I just hope they get the weight down as promised. I could live with the current hp + additional torque and less wieght.
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      01-30-2012, 03:07 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
Recently a reliable source told me that it would be inline 6, V6 was shot down by the board and would use three turbos for the F80.

Now I will openly say that this could in fact mean a small E-charger and a dual scroll turbo effectively making 2 housings with 3 scrolls. My German is so so on these things and the source's English tends to be a bit "off" when it comes to these things.... I also recall being briefed on the X6 ///M when it came out and the engineer I was talking with told me it had 4 turbos- it has four scrolls with 2 dual scroll turbos.

One thing is for sure is that it seems like it will be N55 based now. The source also said 450 HP is the target as BMW is not hell bent on HP and wants efficiency and performance, the M5 could have been over 600hp if they wanted too as an example. 450-460hp would also keep the 100ish hp gap between the M5/M6 for marketing purposes as well as keep reliability up. The F80 has a much better chassis and it is lighter than the former E90 so it will need less HP to go faster.

-M
Well ... your source quotes overall the same as my source ... if BMW/M-GmbH really will define the electric turbo drive as an additional turbo - its according to the patent never an E-charger, because it drives the turbosystem directly instead of producing air pressure - they could name it TriTurbo and when I look at the BMW definition of the Twinscroll-Turbo as 2 Turbos ... your source could be right.

But that would be very bad news, because that would meen that the AG has decided to take the cheapest alternative to create am M3/M4 engine ... simple an 3ltr.R6 N55 with reinforced block and an/one bigger TwinScroll-System and the patented eTurbo-Drive to reduce/eliminate lag and name it TriTurbo to made the customers think they would an rally great engine.

One of my sources with good links to the M-GmbH qoutes that the GmbH hopes(?) that the could bring an 3.3ltr.R6 engine with 2 TwinScroll-Turbos (4 Turbos) ... but my fear is that the AG would cancel this (like the great 3.3ltr.V6 BiTurbo based on the S63T!) because it is a bit more costly to produce. Profit and Ebit are sadly the current heros for the BMW AG.

Greets Uli_HH
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      01-30-2012, 04:22 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
Recently a reliable source told me that it would be inline 6, V6 was shot down by the board and would use three turbos for the F80.

Now I will openly say that this could in fact mean a small E-charger and a dual scroll turbo effectively making 2 housings with 3 scrolls. My German is so so on these things and the source's English tends to be a bit "off" when it comes to these things.... I also recall being briefed on the X6 ///M when it came out and the engineer I was talking with told me it had 4 turbos- it has four scrolls with 2 dual scroll turbos.

One thing is for sure is that it seems like it will be N55 based now. The source also said 450 HP is the target as BMW is not hell bent on HP and wants efficiency and performance, the M5 could have been over 600hp if they wanted too as an example. 450-460hp would also keep the 100ish hp gap between the M5/M6 for marketing purposes as well as keep reliability up. The F80 has a much better chassis and it is lighter than the former E90 so it will need less HP to go faster.

-M
Well ... your source quotes overall the same as my source ... if BMW/M-GmbH really will define the electric turbo drive as an additional turbo - its according to the patent never an E-charger, because it drives the turbosystem directly instead of producing air pressure - they could name it TriTurbo and when I look at the BMW definition of the Twinscroll-Turbo as 2 Turbos ... your source could be right.

But that would be very bad news, because that would meen that the AG has decided to take the cheapest alternative to create am M3/M4 engine ... simple an 3ltr.R6 N55 with reinforced block and an/one bigger TwinScroll-System and the patented eTurbo-Drive to reduce/eliminate lag and name it TriTurbo to made the customers think they would an rally great engine.

One of my sources with good links to the M-GmbH qoutes that the GmbH hopes(?) that the could bring an 3.3ltr.R6 engine with 2 TwinScroll-Turbos (4 Turbos) ... but my fear is that the AG would cancel this (like the great 3.3ltr.V6 BiTurbo based on the S63Tü!) because it is a bit more costly to produce. Profit and Ebit are sadly the current heros for the BMW AG.

Greets Uli_HH
We must remember that M does not make the final decisions, it is the AG board that does. M can only offer up what it has created for approval. The M3 up until the current V8 had used modified production motors so that does not take anything away. The current V8 was created to win at Le Mans, ALMS and the VLN. With BMW refocussing on DTM, which uses a bespoke engine there is no homologation issues. As for the rest of the race series- Porsche will be using a tri-turbo in the future as well and turbos should be allowed in the not so distant future.

I am not worried M has lost it's way because the people I know behind the scenes are some if the biggest enthusiasts ever, others have been there for decades.

-M
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      01-30-2012, 04:48 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
... The M3 up until the current V8 had used modified production motors so that does not take anything away. ...
-M
But because of their NA-Layout M has to heavily modify them to reach the needed power out (Einzeldrossel/HDZ/etc.) ... this seems by the "S55" not the case.

Uli_HH
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      01-30-2012, 10:54 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
But because of their NA-Layout M has to heavily modify them to reach the needed power out (Einzeldrossel/HDZ/etc.) ... this seems by the "S55" not the case.

Uli_HH

N55 was designed from the ground up to be tunable and turbo charged much like the N54. M had some insight into development so it it not a bad place to start. The fact it already has valvetronic designed into it also helps.

e chargers are coming....
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      02-10-2012, 06:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
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N55 was designed from the ground up to be tunable and turbo charged much like the N54.
Well...it seems to be quite a bit less tunable than the N54. I wonder why ?
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      02-24-2012, 09:15 PM   #21
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Now that they announced the inline 6 tri-turbo was being used in the diesel applications, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a twin turbo V6. Kind of like a sawed off version of current m5/6 motor but lacking two cylinders. Look at what they did with older m5/6 and then the m3. The V8 in m3 is pretty much just a sawed off version of their V10. The fact that they patented it too leans me in that direction. Look for slightly more HP, but a lot more TQ. Probably 430/ 440 respectively. Also look for a 200 lb reduction in weight. Just my .02.
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      02-25-2012, 01:06 AM   #22
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You're absolutely right!
It was derived from a 3.3 liter V6 from S63T (from the M5). The power is normally located at 450 HP. The M Drivers Package (Vmax 280 km / h) will be supplemented in future by the Performance package. The latter will then make 480 horsepower and a V-Max allows 300 km / h.
Even when weight was done properly and so currently 1415 Kg seem quite realistic!

Background of the whole thing is quite simple:
When more current M3 (E90) one half of the customers has bewschwert that he was too little and too much sports car business car. The other half of the customers saw it the other way around.

Since BMW will now go different ways.
In future, the M3ein utterly uncompromising sports machine! Those who want more comfort and more auto business, the resort must then hold for M335i (or M340i).
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