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      02-13-2012, 07:02 PM   #67
ksflatlander
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ok, so if they have all this worked out and even can quote the specs and such, what do we think the timing of availability is?
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      02-13-2012, 07:39 PM   #68
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So, almost on the same day, three different people with "reliable" sources both came out and said that the engine has been confirmed. One said an inline-6, the other a V6, and a third a diesel engine. Sounds like a canary trap to me.

Sounds like nothing is confirmed yet (at least, not to anyone outside of M division).

Edit: Make that three people with three different engine configurations
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      02-13-2012, 11:44 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kueks29 View Post

Motordaten (S66)
Zylinder/Ventile V6/4
Hubraum in ccm 3.296
Hub/Bohrung in mm 88,3/89
Nennleistung in kW (PS) bei 1/min 331 (450) 6.000-7.200
Nennleistung in kW (PS) bei 1/min 353 (480) 5.750-7.300 im Performance Package
Max. Drehmoment (Nm) bei 1/min 510/1.350-6.200
Max. Drehmoment (Nm) bei 1/min 550/1.400-6.500 im Performance Package
Verdichtung : 1:10
If this were to be true, there are a few ways it can be done:
1) 90 degree V6 with reverse flow and inboard turbos (based on S63)
2) 60 degree V6 with reverse flow and inboard turbos (Based on S63)
3) 60 degree V6 with conventional flow (possibly based on S65 head design)

1 is unlikely because a 90 degree V6 has the poorest balance of all. 2 is also unlikely due to limited space. To me the only viable option is 3, which is the conventional configuration for a V6 found in so many Japanese cars. Does anyone not agree with my logic?

In spite of all this, the inline 6 is obviously the best choice for a BMW.
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      02-14-2012, 01:56 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kueks29 View Post
BMW M3 (F80)

Gewicht
Leergewicht EU in kg 1.415 Kg
Zulässiges Gesamtgewicht in kg 1.865 Kg
Zuladung in kg 470 Kg

Motordaten (S66)
Zylinder/Ventile V6/4
Hubraum in ccm 3.296
Hub/Bohrung in mm 88,3/89
Nennleistung in kW (PS) bei 1/min 331 (450) 6.000-7.200
Nennleistung in kW (PS) bei 1/min 353 (480) 5.750-7.300 im Performance Package
Max. Drehmoment (Nm) bei 1/min 510/1.350-6.200
Max. Drehmoment (Nm) bei 1/min 550/1.400-6.500 im Performance Package
Verdichtung : 1:10

Verbauch
Innerorts in l/100 km 10,8
Außerorts in l/100 km 6,0
Kombiniert in l/100 km 8,5
CO2-Emission kombiniert in g/km 199
Tankinhalt (ca.) in l 70

Fahrleistungen
Höchstgeschwindigkeit in km/h 250
Höchstgeschwindigkeit in km/h 300 im Performance Package
Beschleunigung 0–100 km/h in s 4,3
Beschleunigung 0–100 km/h in s 4,0 im Performance Package
I like those numbers hope they are real.

I really like the I6 but if you can get more power better reliability better weight balance im all for a V6 just hope if they do a V6 that it sounds good.

If i remember correctly i read an interview with the BMW M boss about I6 vs V6 and he said that I6 has weight and cost advantage and V6 has compact and weight distribution in car advantage.

We will see in time what the M3/M4 will get i am really looking forward to it.
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      02-14-2012, 03:35 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Thanks for that information - all those figures are from a reliable source - or are some of those figures a guess or estimate? (obviously I don't expect you to say who your source of imformation is)...
Let me put it diplomatically:
Many variations of the parameters are not expected to ...
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      02-14-2012, 03:37 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Also kueks29 - any confirmation as to whether performance package will be available in USA?
I'm sorry, I do not know yet ...
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      02-14-2012, 03:55 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
If these would be the real numbers... Whoow... 4.0 s that's quick... real quick...
Initially, BMW has called for the M5 and 4.4 seconds. Meanwhile, they have corrected this value even on the homepage to 4.3 seconds. Some journals have the test but also "less than 4 seconds," made ​​it. Provided enough grip!
In this respect, this information is not necessarily classified as a utopia

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
Also notice the revving to 7300 rpm with the perf package.
Maximum speed is according to my informants at 7,500 rpm are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
And 8.5 L of average consumption. That's as 'low' as a 335i.
The 335i has 7,9 l (7,2 Automatik)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwelvaar View Post
I repeat... If these numbers are true, we can expect a monster... (in the positive sense)
Certainly there will be small corrections. This is only the current state of planning.
These changes will be but only marginally ...
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      02-14-2012, 03:59 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksflatlander View Post
ok, so if they have all this worked out and even can quote the specs and such, what do we think the timing of availability is?
In any case, the F80 will not come into the market, while E92 and E93 are still available!
Since they run until June 2013, you can expect from July 2013 ...
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      02-14-2012, 04:13 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
So, almost on the same day, two different people with "reliable" sources both came out and said that the engine has been confirmed. One said an inline-6, the other a V6, and a third a diesel engine. Sounds like a canary trap to me.

Sounds like nothing is confirmed yet (at least, not to anyone outside of M division).

Edit: Make that three people with three different engine configurations
OK, I'll try to report some details. Must be careful here, however, no one to deliver to the knife.

The V6 was decided in 2009. Under the project name "Apollo" was developed and it should make for a great surprise!
But it is almost impossible to keep information-especially in such a big company secret if it is the first V6 in the history of BMW and thus that there is a massive break with tradition.

When the first rumors of the V6 broke out, some were in Garching, gasping! Immediately the now retired chief Kay Segler said the fact that BMW will build only inline-6.
Even then, many wondered why he:
a. replied a such massive and consistently to rumors
b. the M-GmbH and especially their boss ever comment on rumors, which they had never done before then

Still, the official response from BMW, it will be definitely an inline-6. Which is so not under warranty ...
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      02-14-2012, 04:22 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John_01 View Post
If this were to be true, there are a few ways it can be done:
1) 90 degree V6 with reverse flow and inboard turbos (based on S63)
2) 60 degree V6 with reverse flow and inboard turbos (Based on S63)
3) 60 degree V6 with conventional flow (possibly based on S65 head design)

1 is unlikely because a 90 degree V6 has the poorest balance of all. 2 is also unlikely due to limited space. To me the only viable option is 3, which is the conventional configuration for a V6 found in so many Japanese cars. Does anyone not agree with my logic?

In spite of all this, the inline 6 is obviously the best choice for a BMW.
Since the S66 (when he will have the name) was derived from S63TÜ is probably more likely 90 °.

Furthermore, the V6 offers only advantages!
-better weight distribution
-flatter hood and front-end
-better thermals
-better response
-Differentiation from the 335i, because we do not fool: Soon to be the first tuned 335i (F30) to drive around and can not be faster than an M3, and must be differentiated
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      02-14-2012, 04:39 AM   #77
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So to recap:

Confirmed engine #1 is a 3.3l biturbo V6. Source: Drunk DTM driver at a party.
Confirmed engine #2 is a 3.0l triturbo I6. Source: Guy on the internet.
Confirmed engine #3 is a 3.0l triturbo diesel I6. Source: Guy on the internet who heard it from another guy.

What? No one's confirmed a 1.3l quadturbo rotary yet?
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      02-14-2012, 05:12 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
So to recap:

Confirmed engine #1 is a 3.3l biturbo V6. Source: Drunk DTM driver at a party.
Confirmed engine #2 is a 3.0l triturbo I6. Source: Guy on the internet.
Confirmed engine #3 is a 3.0l triturbo diesel I6. Source: Guy on the internet who heard it from another guy.

What? No one's confirmed a 1.3l quadturbo rotary yet?
Why so hard recap?

What would you say, if all 3 engines really exist ... but for different possible M-cars:

Engine #1 - the 3.3ltr.biturbo V6 "S66" for the new M3/M4
Engine #2 - the 3.0ltr.(tri)turbo R6 "S55" for the new M340i
Engine #3 - the 3.0ltr.triturbo diesel R6 for an possible M340xd

SO all rumors could be true ... but partly misinterpreted für which car they are planed.

Greets Uli_HH
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      02-14-2012, 05:22 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
Why so hard recap?

What would you say, if all 3 engines really exist ... but for different possible M-cars:

Engine #1 - the 3.3ltr.biturbo V6 "S66" for the new M3/M4
Engine #2 - the 3.0ltr.(tri)turbo R6 "S55" for the new M340i
Engine #3 - the 3.0ltr.triturbo diesel R6 for an possible M340xd

SO all rumors could be true ... but partly misinterpreted für which car they are planed.

Greets Uli_HH
Yeah, I suggested that the diesel speculation was for a possible M340d in another thread.

At any rate, yours is the most reasonable explanation for all of these rumors, Uli. If you hear anything new, please chime in

Ciao.
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      02-14-2012, 05:29 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
Why so hard recap?

What would you say, if all 3 engines really exist ... but for different possible M-cars:

Engine #1 - the 3.3ltr.biturbo V6 "S66" for the new M3/M4
Engine #2 - the 3.0ltr.(tri)turbo R6 "S55" for the new M340i
Engine #3 - the 3.0ltr.triturbo diesel R6 for an possible M340xd

SO all rumors could be true ... but partly misinterpreted für which car they are planed.

Greets Uli_HH
Congratulations, Uli...You heard it

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      02-14-2012, 05:47 AM   #81
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1415 kg is way too light. It is rather this:

1415 kg (dry)
1515 kg (curb/DIN)
1590 kg (EU)
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      02-14-2012, 06:16 AM   #82
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1415 kg is way too light. It is rather this:

1415 kg (dry)
1515 kg (curb/DIN)
1590 kg (EU)
Excuse me if I disagree with you ...

It has long haunted the value of "about minus 200 kg" through the area.
If I see now that a 335i F30 brings the scales at 1590 kg, 1415 kg then come quite close to the already cited frequently ran 200 kg less
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      02-14-2012, 06:27 AM   #83
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I already owned a car with a 90 degree V6 using balance shafts. The engine originated from an ancient Buick design, but made in Australia in 2002. That was a very rough engine. It made all sorts of noises as it struggled to reach its 5500rpm red line. The early versions of this 90 degree V6 design didn't even have a balance shaft. Idle was unbelievably rough. In those old cars it seemed like the engine was trying to escape its mounting.

Of course the engine was designed that way because it had evolved as a 6 cylinder version of a V8. Very interesting if BMW intends to follow the same approach. I would expect they won't do that. The Japanese know what they are doing when making all their V6 engines at 60 degrees. These days I choose BMW because the inline 6 cylinder engines are the smoothest free-revving engines in the world.

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      02-14-2012, 06:30 AM   #84
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I can't believe it will be lighter than the 911 Carrera S. Maybe then 1415 kg (DIN) so 1490 kg (EU) what would still make slightly heavier than the Porsche and about 150 kg lighter than the M3 E90.
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      02-14-2012, 07:07 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kueks29 View Post
In any case, the F80 will not come into the market, while E92 and E93 are still available!
Since they run until June 2013, you can expect from July 2013 ...

Are you sure that the E92/93 M3 would be produced until June 2013, and the production not already ends in the late summer of 2012 with the just for 2012 announced E92 with CFT package as a last-made copies of these M-Series ... as it was the case for the E90 CRT last year.

I ask because the M-GmbH is celebrating its 40th anniversary this year ... on the M-Power Festival in May as part of the 24 hour race at the Nurburgring!

What would be an appropriate birthday gift that would be worthy of this special round birthday ... The two M6s - I do not think so, they will be presented in March 2012 in Geneva ... the E92 M3 with CRT package - not special enough, and an outgoing model -> not worthy enough ... what would be left then?
An M1 successor - it is not known whether this car is real ... it would only be the new super light, super fast and extremely innovative F80 with the all-new and groundbreaking V6 BiTurbo, a vehicle of which already highly developed prototypes are on the way / in the public and that comes before 2013 at the latest on the market.

So what the gift of the M-GmbH for the 40th anniversary will be ???

Greets Uli_HH
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      02-14-2012, 07:36 AM   #86
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Are you sure that the E92/93 M3 would be produced until June 2013, and the production not already ends in the late summer of 2012 with the just for 2012 announced E92 with CFT package as a last-made copies of these M-Series ... as it was the case for the E90 CRT last year.

I ask because the M-GmbH is celebrating its 40th anniversary this year ... on the M-Power Festival in May as part of the 24 hour race at the Nurburgring!

What would be an appropriate birthday gift that would be worthy of this special round birthday ... The two M6s - I do not think so, they will be presented in March 2012 in Geneva ... the E92 M3 with CRT package - not special enough, and an outgoing model -> not worthy enough ... what would be left then?
An M1 successor - it is not known whether this car is real ... it would only be the new super light, super fast and extremely innovative F80 with the all-new and groundbreaking V6 BiTurbo, a vehicle of which already highly developed prototypes are on the way / in the public and that comes before 2013 at the latest on the market.

So what the gift of the M-GmbH for the 40th anniversary will be ???

Greets Uli_HH
Many questions and I'll try to answer them!

Release date F80
The E90 came as a sedan on the market in March 2005, the coupe followed in September 2006. Well 18 months later.
It was also at LCI! The E90 LCI was published in September 2008 and the Coupe followed in March 2010. So again 18 months later.

Since the F30 now had its official launch in February 2012, the logical date would be August 2013 for the F32 ... and there are BMW factory vacations there, he will come either shortly before or shortly after officially on sale.

In addition, the M5 has just been released, as is the M6 ​​Coupe and Convertible X5M and X6M ready and have a facelift. BMW will introduce this respect certainly not another series in 2012.
And ultimately evolving the E92/93 still running until the summer of 2013 and is also known as M3 by then continue vekauft!
What do you mean what would happen if the new V6 already offered in the sedan and coupe and convertible are the "old" V8? Then jump onto the roof where the customer and do not sell "old" M3 more

Highlight the 40th
So yes the coupe has a long history and there was always at the end of a special series model, which gave a view of the next M3 is a bit more freely ...
It was the last E46 CSL, has ever showed the carbon roof ...

I am therefore rather assume that it is certainly a special edition for the 40th Birthday will be.
which it will be but I do not exist!


But there is another possible scenario!
According to rumors it could actually happen, that the M3 (F80), but before that comes. There are the following rumors:
a) together with the presentation of touring this fall!
b.) in time for summer, so sometime in February 2013

For this purpose it is necessary for the E92/E93 M3 is set prematurely. Quite as far-fetched the last scenario seems not quite!
For just as you would highlight in the spring of the M3 F80, F32 in the summer and then maybe the fall of the F82.
Would have to attract sufficient incentives to the customer at regular intervals into the car dealership
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      02-14-2012, 08:49 AM   #87
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The M3 F30 should be shown @ Geneva 2013 with internet reveal maybe earlier and EU release some months later.

As for this years' 40th annversaray festival I would as I always said, expect the M3 CLS (E92) as a grand final of NA M engines.
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      02-14-2012, 09:00 AM   #88
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Quote:
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As for this years' 40th annversaray festival I would as I always said, expect the M3 CLS (E92) as a grand final of NA M engines.
Hasn´t Scott quoted that there woundn´t be an CSL only an E92 with CRT-Package (with the CRT CRFP-Hood, etc. ... I don´t think it would possible to bring the CRT-seats in an Coupe, it seems like they are Sedan only(?)
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