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      03-20-2012, 04:32 AM   #1
Uli_HH
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Could F80M3 and F82M4 get different engines?

Or could the complete new M engine only be introduced with the M4 and the M3 gets an "interim" engine until the M4 will be introduced ?

Is there any possibility for such an scenario ? I think I have read an post here in this forum where someone quoted Scott26 with such an possibility.

Greets Uli_HH

Last edited by Uli_HH; 03-20-2012 at 04:38 AM.
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      03-20-2012, 06:21 AM   #2
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It could be possible I I think it will be too costly. If the engines will be different, I however think they will be based on the same one, like X5 M vs. M5. I know the 3.3l I6 is not easy to understand, because if it is true the engine is not based on N55. Could it be they decided to base this engine on the V8 but make an I6, cut the engine in two longitudinally in two, get an I4, add two cylinders and get an I6, but in this way we already know for sure what engine the M2 is getting. The X3 M will not come until the will be an X4 M. Nor will there be any Z4 M this generation. So the M3 will still get a new engine, and it will not be made from parts of the bin as there are going to be no more, if to think about N54 and S65. IMO there can be only two ways: 3.0-3.2l I6 based on N55 or 3.3l V6 based on S63. The last variant possible is the one I mentioned above, only if both N55 was not enough good and they still did not want to go the V6 route. Some insider said the M3 would get I6 and the M4 V6, but also this is hardly believable, as the I6 will still have costed R&D and for only one model. To cut costs down, all M3 Sedan, M3 Touring (if it comes), M3 GranTourer (if they change their mind) M4 Coupé, M4 Convertible, M4 GranCoupé, M4 GranShooting (if it comes), X3 M (if it has time), X4 M and Z4 M (thought maybe not E89) would all get the same engine. Afterall that is the same case for the M5 Sedan, M5 Touring (if it still comes), M6 Coupé, M6 Convertible, M6 GranCoupé (which is coming), M6 GranShooting (which could come), X5 M, X6 M and any possible BMW supercar (M1) or luxury roadster (Z8).
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      03-20-2012, 08:02 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
It could be possible I I think it will be too costly. If the engines will be different, I however think they will be based on the same one, like X5 M vs. M5. I know the 3.3l I6 is not easy to understand, because if it is true the engine is not based on N55. Could it be they decided to base this engine on the V8 but make an I6, cut the engine in two longitudinally in two, get an I4, add two cylinders and get an I6, but in this way we already know for sure what engine the M2 is getting.
+1 this is the only reasonable way, why an "complete new" could have exact this 3.3ltr. displacement, but there are two really great disadvantages to do so ... first, this engine would be clearly more costly than the V6 alternative based on the same S63Tü ... an second, this new engineblock would clearly substantially bigger than an N55 block (3cm longer and 1cm wider!?) and nearly as double as long as an V6 with the same displacement ... why the M-GmbH should do this ... greater packaging problems and costs for nearly the same hp/Nm-Output = very unlikely... with the M2-engine you could be right ... this 2.2ltr.I4 makes much sence irrespective of the type of the chosen M3/M4 engine.

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Originally Posted by Levi View Post
The X3 M will not come until the will be an X4 M. Nor will there be any Z4 M this generation. So the M3 will still get a new engine, and it will not be made from parts of the bin as there are going to be no more, if to think about N54 and S65. IMO there can be only two ways: 3.0-3.2l I6 based on N55 or 3.3l V6 based on S63. (...)
Some insider said the M3 would get I6 and the M4 V6, but also this is hardly believable (...)
Yes, I think one of this two alternatives would come ... but eventually the confusion and rumors comes from an consideration from BMW/the M-GmbH, that it would be clever to debut the new "innovative" engine together with the M4 and give the M3 an existing (modified) engine until the M4 comes to the market ... here are only two alternatives that could be plausible ... an stronger modified N54/N55 (like Alpina B3) or an modified S65 ... both with around (430-)440hp - above the existing E9x M3 and below the new engine (~460-480hp). Some rumors quoted exactly this 440hp for the new M3(!?).
This stratgy would allow BMW to bring the M3 earlier into the market ... and hold back the new engine for the premier of the complete new M4 ... secondly an M3 with such an engine would be hold well below the F10 M5 until this car could get an "Performence Package" in 09/2013 to preserve the performence gap between new M3/M4 and M5/M6.
BMW is well known for doing so in its AG-range (528i with N53, etc,!)

Is is nothing but pure speculation ... in in my opinion it could make sense and explain some of the confusing rumors.

Greets Uli_HH

Last edited by Uli_HH; 03-20-2012 at 01:29 PM.
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      03-20-2012, 11:10 AM   #4
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Again, I highly doubt that BMW would create two different engines for the four F8X cars. If there are to be any differences, it will likely be limited to mapping/software changes plus additional cooling, similar to what was done with the Performance Packs in the E90 335i.
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      03-20-2012, 01:45 PM   #5
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Eh, BMW seems to put a priority to cost savings these days (well in fairness everyone is). It seems like in every new car post a BMW emplooye is quoted saying something like "The new BMW X shares Y parts with the Z Series, to reduce production costs/ improve efficiency." So I don't see it happening.
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      03-21-2012, 05:00 PM   #6
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Why does it feel like R-Kelly is up next?
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      03-21-2012, 07:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Why does it feel like R-Kelly is up next?
Relevant: http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=712533
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      03-22-2012, 03:51 PM   #8
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Can anybody tell the significance of the "M 40" signature in SCOTT26's profile? Could it be a clue as to the new engine? It seems too "in your face" to be nothing of significance!
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      03-22-2012, 04:14 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WallieX5 View Post
Can anybody tell the significance of the "M 40" signature in SCOTT26's profile? Could it be a clue as to the new engine? It seems too "in your face" to be nothing of significance!
I'm assuming it's a reference to the upcoming MX40i (M340i, M440i, M540i, etc) lineup of cars that will be powered by the N55 replacement as part of BMW's expansion of its M Performance line.
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      03-22-2012, 06:12 PM   #10
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M. 40th Anniversary.
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      03-22-2012, 08:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
M. 40th Anniversary.
I like my hypothesis better
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      03-22-2012, 09:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
I like my hypothesis better
I liked your hypothesis better too, but thank gawd he spilled the beans. It was driving me nuts.
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      03-22-2012, 11:48 PM   #13
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^ Agree
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      03-23-2012, 02:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
M. 40th Anniversary.
And what about an M car that its worth to be the great birthday present for this great round Anniversary.
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      03-23-2012, 06:00 AM   #15
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What about M3 CSL (E92) ???
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      03-23-2012, 06:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
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What about M3 CSL (E92) ???
Maybe ... but would be nothing special, because of last years M3 CRT debut ... what about an F80 M3 Lightweight Concept Car !?
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      03-23-2012, 07:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
Maybe ... but would be nothing special, because of last years M3 CRT debut ... what about an F80 M3 Lightweight Concept Car !?
The M3 CRT E90 is a much better car than the M3 GTS E92, but IMO nothing beats the M3 CSL E46. I just hope the special car will not be the X6 M CRT (E71).
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      03-23-2012, 10:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
The M3 CRT E90 is a much better car than the M3 GTS E92, but IMO nothing beats the M3 CSL E46. I just hope the special car will not be the X6 M CRT (E71).
I'm curious why you think the CRT is a much better car thn the GTS, Levi. Is it because it's more streetable? Is the GTS not faster around the track?
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      03-23-2012, 04:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
I'm curious why you think the CRT is a much better car thn the GTS, Levi. Is it because it's more streetable? Is the GTS not faster around the track?
The GTS is just less special than the CRT. The GTS is nothing else than a stripped down M3, with roll-cage (that any raceteam could build in), engine kit (Noelle Motors has an even more powerful one that brings it to 4.6l), KW Clubsport coilovers, titanium exhaust system (Akrapovic is even better), Brembo big brake kit, Recaro Pole Position seats. In fact you can get all this through aftermarket, and even more, it just will not be OEM badged. The M3 CRT on the other hand, fulfills the same performance but with added infotainement, thanks to special CF lighweight parts like hood, trunk, seats. Both the M3 CRT and M3 CSL also are 4 seater. The M3 CRT just has more exclusive parts like the M3 CSL.
In other words the M3 CRT has the same performance, has slightly better balance, is more practicle and more exclusive/special than the GTS. I would love the same recipe as the CRT for the Coupé but even more extreme: always 4 seats, but more power, more CF so less weight and more agressive exterior. For me a "GTS" would be more interesting if it was smaller and based on the 1 Series M Coupé.


M4 GCSL (GranCoupé Sport Leichtbau F85) would be epic !


Well, that is just my personal opinion.
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      03-27-2012, 04:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
The GTS is just less special than the CRT. The GTS is nothing else than a stripped down M3, with roll-cage (that any raceteam could build in), engine kit (Noelle Motors has an even more powerful one that brings it to 4.6l), KW Clubsport coilovers, titanium exhaust system (Akrapovic is even better), Brembo big brake kit, Recaro Pole Position seats. In fact you can get all this through aftermarket, and even more, it just will not be OEM badged. The M3 CRT on the other hand, fulfills the same performance but with added infotainement, thanks to special CF lighweight parts like hood, trunk, seats. Both the M3 CRT and M3 CSL also are 4 seater. The M3 CRT just has more exclusive parts like the M3 CSL.
In other words the M3 CRT has the same performance, has slightly better balance, is more practicle and more exclusive/special than the GTS. I would love the same recipe as the CRT for the Coupé but even more extreme: always 4 seats, but more power, more CF so less weight and more agressive exterior. For me a "GTS" would be more interesting if it was smaller and based on the 1 Series M Coupé.


M4 GCSL (GranCoupé Sport Leichtbau F85) would be epic !


Well, that is just my personal opinion.
At the end of the day the GTS is still the lighter (and faster) of the two. If I wanted a daily driver, I would choose the CRT without question. If I wanted the faster car on the track, I would get the more track-focused, less-compromising GTS. And that determining factor is what makes it the more special of the two.
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      03-27-2012, 04:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
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M. 40th Anniversary.
So what's happening in May?!
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      03-27-2012, 04:56 PM   #22
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So what's happening in May?!
BMW at the AutoChina , Beijing. (late April,early May) , BMW M Festival - precursor to the anniversary and MINI United - Launch of the next MINI JCW GP.
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