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      11-21-2011, 10:41 PM   #1
Ateam
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Do you think the next m3/m4 will have most hp in class?

So I never quite have figured why bmw m cars typically are never the horsepower leaders in their class of cars and consistently merc and even a lot of american cars absolutely top them.

Now I understand that the m cars do everything well, handling, looks, steering etc. I get that.

But why do they not do both? They do not have to give up all that good stuff that makes it an m3 but why not also be competitive on a hp basis since good or not a lot of people look at hp on paper and decide on a car.

I can even understand with the NA engines, maybe they would have had to sacrifice engine character to get more power but now with the turbo's there is really no excuse for the m cars to not be putting out a stupid amount of power.

I really cannot fathom why the m5 came with only 550 hp when the competitors are already higher than them and probably will continue to increase their hp where the m cars typically do not get a power bump.

Why not 625 in the new m5?

Bottom line do you think the new m3 will push the envelope with power and break tradition or will merc still offer more power? Sadly I think the m3 will offer 475 hp which is more or less the same as this generation of c63. M3 should be at 550 and the m5 at 625 IMO
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      11-21-2011, 10:44 PM   #2
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short answer: no... the next M3 will have somewhere between 450-470hp MAX
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      11-21-2011, 10:56 PM   #3
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I think it will have around 450 hp. If it does, it should be faster than a merc amg because of the lighter weight and fatter powerband due to the turbos.

I cant wait for a tt 6 cyl motor in the m3 personally
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      11-22-2011, 12:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atlanta2004m3 View Post
You meant 560hp, right?

What current m5 competitors are above 560hp? Help me with that one....that you can purchase in North America....

Finally, how's the current M3 horsepower deficit hurting it's standing as a class leader? Not always about the horsepower mate, gearing, handling, etc....just looking at a number on paper isn't a good way to buy a car and certainly a terrible way to design and build them. Here's hoping they continue down the path they have been going over recent years, performance-wise, as it has yet to truly disappoint. Now, weight-wise, size-wise, esthetics/design-wise, debate can be raised on whether that path has been or will be successful.
You are missing my point and clearly did not read. Its not hurting its "standing" necessarily around a track but what about ALSO being the fastest in a straight line? To be honest I am a bit tired of the bimmer always lagging behind in straight line speed, usually to the mercs. My point is, especially with turbos, they do not have to give up the other things they excel at AND make the fastest straight line car. Why can't you have both? No reason with turbo motors now for bmw.
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      11-22-2011, 06:38 AM   #5
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NO ... there is nil chance that the new M3 is getting the highest power output in its class ... because of the engine descission the BMW AG has made ... you can expect a little bit lower hp-numbers than the outgoing M3 is reaching.

I am really pissed off that some people of BMW think, because of the new lightness of the base F30 an thus the F80, the cheapest engine possible is enough to reach an performence like its predecessor and its not necessary to bring the car to its maximum opportunities (in performence terms!).

Bye bye M3 !!!

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      11-22-2011, 07:06 AM   #6
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450 PS for M3/M4.

480 PS for M3 CRT/M4 CSL. (Not sure about the M3 CRT however.)
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      11-22-2011, 02:56 PM   #7
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Because there is such a thing as too much power. Power without control is useless. Remember that you need the right amount of manageable power to get those excellent lap times as oppose to drifting all over the place.
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      11-25-2011, 11:21 PM   #8
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Because there is such a thing as too much power. Power without control is useless. Remember that you need the right amount of manageable power to get those excellent lap times as oppose to drifting all over the place.
1^. That's why the M3 outlaps the C63, and the M3 competition pack with the standard 414hp, 295lb/ft torque outlaps the C63 performance pack with 481 hp and well over 400lb/ft torque. Also why M3 outlaps the 2010 shelby gt500 with 550 hp... Nobody is stopping anyone from buying 500-600 mustangs and camaros - so if that floats your boat - go for it!!
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      11-29-2011, 10:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
I think it will have around 450 hp. If it does, it should be faster than a merc amg because of the lighter weight and fatter powerband due to the turbos.

I cant wait for a tt 6 cyl motor in the m3 personally
m3 too I think its going to be the best M3/M4 yet and I think it will be called a M3 they will not change the iconic name like that just doesn't make sense to me idk
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      12-06-2011, 12:44 AM   #10
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I think the HP war between maufacturers is almost finished, if not already. Especially for BMW, I think it's about the pursuit of making their cars lighter and more efficient while keeping similar power figures to their current/last gen cars. That's my $0.02 anyway lol.

BTW, the wait for the new M3/M4 is getting even more agonising!! I just want to hurry up and order mine!
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      12-06-2011, 01:10 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR///M3 View Post
short answer: no... the next M3 will have somewhere between 450-470hp MAX
Optimistic IMO - 420 - 450 hp; it will be lb/ft [Kw] and mpg [L/100] that the engineers will be boosting more. Hey, more Kw is good: love my 'd's 425 lb/ft.
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      12-06-2011, 10:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
1^. That's why the M3 outlaps the C63, and the M3 competition pack with the standard 414hp, 295lb/ft torque outlaps the C63 performance pack with 481 hp and well over 400lb/ft torque. Also why M3 outlaps the 2010 shelby gt500 with 550 hp... Nobody is stopping anyone from buying 500-600 mustangs and camaros - so if that floats your boat - go for it!!
I get this but fact of the matter is consumers look at HP numbers and even enthusiasts here talk about the huge torque and hp of the c63 despite it being inferior. They speak of it being a better driver around the city due to the torque and power. So I feel bmw is missing a market piece there by not catering to the people who just buy the car with the most hp.

I do not think they have to compromise and can have both the best track car and the one with nearly the most power
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      12-07-2011, 03:21 AM   #13
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no
MB will not let BMW do that with the next gen C63 AMG
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      12-07-2011, 09:10 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
450 PS for M3/M4.

480 PS for M3 CRT/M4 CSL. (Not sure about the M3 CRT however.)
You're just guessing around.
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      12-07-2011, 10:08 PM   #15
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no. MB will probably stuff 5.5TT v8 into next c63... turbo-less 5.5 is already in the roadster..
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      12-09-2011, 09:56 AM   #16
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Next C63 will have +500hp.
Next M3 will have 440hp at max.

the difference between these two will be atleast over 60hp.
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      12-09-2011, 04:01 PM   #17
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people should not forget that BMW engine will be TURBOcharged and once aftermarket starts playing with it, the potential is unlimited.. (if BMW doesn't play hardball too much).
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      12-13-2011, 10:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ateam View Post
So I never quite have figured why bmw m cars typically are never the horsepower leaders in their class of cars and consistently merc and even a lot of american cars absolutely top them.

Now I understand that the m cars do everything well, handling, looks, steering etc. I get that.

But why do they not do both? They do not have to give up all that good stuff that makes it an m3 but why not also be competitive on a hp basis since good or not a lot of people look at hp on paper and decide on a car.

I can even understand with the NA engines, maybe they would have had to sacrifice engine character to get more power but now with the turbo's there is really no excuse for the m cars to not be putting out a stupid amount of power.

I really cannot fathom why the m5 came with only 550 hp when the competitors are already higher than them and probably will continue to increase their hp where the m cars typically do not get a power bump.

Why not 625 in the new m5?

Bottom line do you think the new m3 will push the envelope with power and break tradition or will merc still offer more power? Sadly I think the m3 will offer 475 hp which is more or less the same as this generation of c63. M3 should be at 550 and the m5 at 625 IMO
Not when the 2013 Mustang GT500 will have 650hp....maybe not exactly in the same league but they are both coupes.

Dave
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